{"id":39336,"date":"2019-10-11T11:15:36","date_gmt":"2019-10-11T15:15:36","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=39336"},"modified":"2019-10-11T11:15:36","modified_gmt":"2019-10-11T15:15:36","slug":"the-anglican-newman-on-prayer-for-the-dead-1838","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/10\/the-anglican-newman-on-prayer-for-the-dead-1838.html","title":{"rendered":"The Anglican Newman on Prayer for the Dead (1838)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

It was as well-attested in the early Church as the Canon of Scripture<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

This is getting into \u201cclassic\u201d Newman argumentation: of the sort that he massively utilized in his Essay on Development<\/em>: by which he argued himself into the Church (and me as well!). I love<\/em> these analogies, and they are rock-solid, \u201cdynamite\u201d arguments to use with Protestants, who want to accept the biblical canon but deny the equally tradition-based prayers for the dead.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

As to the evidence, I consider there is evidence enough that the Church prayed for the dead in Christ, but not evidence that they knew why \u2013 for they give various reasons. Tertullian . . . gives as a reason that the departed may have part in the first Resurrection \u2013 but other petitions offered referred to their having rest and peace now, and a merciful trial at the last day. . . . As to the date of the evidence, I would only suggest this \u2013 that as far as I know, there is as good evidence for this usage as for the genuineness and authenticity of many books of the New Testament . . .<\/p>\n

[M]any books of the New Testament . . . are received on the custom of reading them in some Churches from the beginning, the testimony of one or two Fathers to one or two verses in them, and the fiat of the 4th century which formed the Canon. E.g. I speak without accurate investigation, but I believe St Paul to Philemon is received on a reference to it in Tertullian, . . . on a passage in Caius, and then by Origen and Eusebius. This is a favorable specimen \u2013 I think I am right in saying that not a single Latin Father for 3 centuries quotes the Epistle to the Hebrews, but Tertullian who gives it to S. Barnabas, Irenaeus and Hippolytus seem to have thought it not St Paul\u2019s, or not canonical \u2013 at all events it was not, I believe, received by the Roman Church in early times. I may be incorrect in these particular instances, but they serve as illustrations of what I think will be found to hold, viz that we receive great part of the Canon on less evidence than that produceable for prayers for the dead in Christ. The main evidence for both is the reading of the one and the use of the other in the Church from the beginning.\u00a0(Letters & Diaries<\/em>, v. 6; To George Stanley Faber, 16 May 1838)<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

See My Three Newman Quotations Books (e-books only $2.99)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

The Quotable Newman: A Definitive Guide to His Central Thoughts and Ideas\u00a0<\/i><\/a>(Aug. 2011 \/ 12 October 2012, 415p)<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
The Quotable Newman, Vol. II<\/i><\/a>\u00a0(Aug. 2013, 290p)<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Cardinal Newman: Q & A in Theology, Church History, and Conversion<\/a>\u00a0<\/i>(May 2015, 367p)<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
***<\/div>\n

Related Reading:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Baptiz<\/a>ing the Dead? (Odd Verse 1 Corinthians 15:29)<\/a>\u00a0[6-5-02]<\/p>\n

Baptized for the Dead:\u00a0The<\/em>\u00a0\u201cUnProtestant\u201d Verse (1 Cor 15:29)<\/a>\u00a0[2004]<\/p>\n

New (?) Biblical Argument: Prayers for the Dead<\/a>\u00a0[2004]<\/p>\n

Prayer for the Dead & Retroactive Prayer (Luther & Protestants)<\/a>\u00a0[3-22-05]<\/p>\n

Does God Forbid\u00a0All<\/em>\u00a0Contact with the Dead?<\/a>\u00a0[6-23-07]<\/p>\n

John Wesley Believed in Prayer for the Dead<\/a>\u00a0[7-13-09]<\/p>\n

Paul Prayed for Dead Onesiphorus (Protestant Commentaries)<\/a>\u00a0[7-14-09]<\/p>\n

Fasting for the Dead in the Old Testament\u00a0(Not Unlike Praying)<\/a>\u00a0[11-4-12]<\/p>\n

Dialogue on Prayer for the Dead & the Bible<\/a>\u00a0[11-5-12]<\/p>\n

Dialogue w Calvinists on Prayer for the Dead & Purgatory<\/a>\u00a0[3-18-15]<\/span><\/p>\n

St. Paul Prayed for a Dead Man: Onesiphorus<\/a>\u00a0[8-19-15]<\/p>\n

\u201cArmstrong vs. Geisler\u201d #4: Prayer for the Dead<\/a>\u00a0[2-20-17]<\/p>\n

St. Paul Prayed for Onesiphorus, Who Was Dead<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 3-19-17]<\/p>\n

Was Onesiphorus Dead When Paul Prayed for Him?: Data from 16 Protestant Commentaries (1992-2016)\u00a0<\/a>[3-20-17]<\/p>\n

Prayers to Saints & for the Dead: Six Biblical Proofs<\/a>\u00a0[6-8-18]<\/p>\n

4 Biblical Proofs for Prayers to Saints and for the Dead<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 6-16-18]<\/p>\n

Reflections on Interceding for the Lost Souls<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 6-26-18]<\/p>\n

Dialogue w Lutherans: \u201cProxy Baptism\u201d? (1 Cor 15:29<\/a>) [12-28-18]<\/p>\n

C. S. Lewis Believed in Purgatory & Prayer for the Dead<\/a>\u00a0[6-22-10; rev. 10-8-19]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Unfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist<\/strong>:<\/span>\u00a0If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 \/ month \u2014 a mere 33 cents a day \u2014 would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see\u00a0my Resume<\/a>). My work has been proven (by God\u2019s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences\u00a0from unsolicited \u201ctestimonies\u201d<\/a>). I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and three children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.<\/div>\n
\n

*<\/p>\n

My book royalties from\u00a0three bestsellers in the field<\/a>\u00a0(published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.\u00a0 I provide over 2500 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have\u00a0written 50 books<\/a>.\u00a0It\u2019ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will start receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers. Thanks! See my\u00a0information on how to donate<\/a>\u00a0(including 100% tax-deductible donations). It\u2019s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my \u201cbusiness name\u201d there is called \u201cCatholic Used Book Service,\u201d from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago). May God abundantly bless you.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

It was as well-attested in the early Church as the Canon of Scripture This is getting into \u201cclassic\u201d Newman argumentation: of the sort that he massively utilized in his Essay on Development: by which he argued himself into the Church (and me as well!). I love these analogies, and they are rock-solid, \u201cdynamite\u201d arguments to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":39342,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[206],"tags":[410,257,773,9609,9612,223,413,411,1401,207,209,2341,412,243,9597,9615],"class_list":["post-39336","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saints-purgatory-penance","tag-afterlife","tag-anglicanism","tag-anglicans","tag-cardinal-newman-prayer-for-the-dead","tag-cardinal-newman-purgatory","tag-eschatology","tag-hades","tag-intermediate-state","tag-last-things-2","tag-prayer-for-the-dead","tag-purgatory-2","tag-salvation","tag-sheol","tag-soteriology-2","tag-st-john-henry-cardinal-newman","tag-st-john-henry-newman"],"yoast_head":"\nThe Anglican Newman on Prayer for the Dead (1838)<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Cardinal 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Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39336","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=39336"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39336\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/39342"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=39336"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=39336"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=39336"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}