{"id":40251,"date":"2019-10-31T12:52:35","date_gmt":"2019-10-31T16:52:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=40251"},"modified":"2019-10-31T12:59:25","modified_gmt":"2019-10-31T16:59:25","slug":"debate-masturbation-okay-in-moderation-or-intrinsically-wrong","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/10\/debate-masturbation-okay-in-moderation-or-intrinsically-wrong.html","title":{"rendered":"Debate: Masturbation Okay in Moderation or Intrinsically Wrong?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

Friendly agnostic \/ deist and regular on my blog,\u00a0VicqRuiz<\/a>, (words in blue<\/span> below) commented on my article, Masturbation: C. S. Lewis Explains Why it is Wrong<\/a>, and I responded. If we go through another round of discussion, I will add it later.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

I think you and Lewis are quite right that a man (or woman) can become obsessed with this practice to the extent that it becomes mentally very harmful.<\/span><\/p>\n

Similarly, one can become obsessed with gambling to the extent that it ruins a man financially and morally. But that should not be a reason why a low-stakes poker game twice a month with friends should be condemned.<\/span><\/p>\n

And one can become a gibbering alcoholic, to the destruction of life and household. But that is no reason to condemn me for a Scotch after dinner on Friday night, or a cold beer (or even two!) after an August lawn-mowing session.<\/span><\/p>\n

Do you see where I\u2019m going here Dave?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah; you think it\u2019s a matter of degree and moderation, and take the common libertarian view, whereas we think it is intrinsically wrong, and Lewis (never a Catholic) does a great job of explaining why.<\/p>\n

Sexual orgasm and climax apart from the deepest reason for which it was intended (procreation and mutual self-giving) is disordered. It\u2019s like eating food simply for the taste, to the exclusion of its deepest purpose: nutrition.<\/p>\n

We see where all this on a massive societal scale is leading. Look at, for example, pornography, which is destroying millions of lives: all because people can\u2019t manage to live according to a normal and moral marital \/ sexual situation.<\/p>\n

Has pornography become a cultural obsession, do you think? Was the sexual revolution of 50 years ago obsessive (250 million legally murdered preborn babies would suggest that it was)? Were people made massively happier and more fulfilled as a result? Did divorce rates decrease as a result of \u201ctry before you buy\u201d? Was women\u2019s liberation an obsession? How about the radical homosexual and transgender agenda today?<\/p>\n

Secular and scientific sociology shows that traditional Christian morality actually makes people more happy and satisfied (including in the sexual sense) than being sexually \u201cliberated\u201d and having no particular moral framework as regards sexuality.<\/p>\n

Who woulda thunk<\/em> it? The supposedly \u201cliberated\u201d people are (more and more, and surprisingly so) frigid and impotent, while us supposed \u201canti-sex\u201d Christians are enjoying a robust sex life. This is sociological statistics, not just me talkin\u2019 . . .<\/p>\n

*<\/p>\n

Related Reading:<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
\n
\n

Why Did God Kill Onan?\u00a0(The Bible on Contraception)<\/a>\u00a0[2-9-04]<\/span><\/p>\n

Dialogue: Why Did God Kill Onan? (Contraception)<\/a>\u00a0[2-13-04]<\/span><\/p>\n

Onan, Contraception, & Two Protestant Bible Dictionaries<\/a>\u00a0[2-21-04]<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Masturbation: Thoughts on Why it is as Wrong as it Ever Was<\/a> [3-14-04 and 9-7-05; abridged, edited, and slightly modified on 8-14-19]<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n

Masturbation Remains a Grave Sin (Debate w Steve Hays)<\/a> [1-6-07; links added on 8-13-19]<\/span><\/p>\n

Martin Luther Condemns Masturbation (\u201cSecret Sin\u201d)<\/a> [6-2-10]<\/span><\/p>\n

Masturbation Reference in Sermon on the Mount?<\/a> [10-18-11]<\/span><\/p>\n

Biblical Data Against Contraception: Onan\u2019s Sin and Punishment: a Concise \u201cCatholic\u201d Argument<\/a>\u00a0[3-7-14]<\/span><\/p>\n

Bible vs. Contraception: Onan\u2019s Sin and Punishment<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 5-30-17]<\/span><\/p>\n

Masturbation: Gravely Disordered According to Catholicism<\/a> [8-16-19]<\/span><\/p>\n

Biblical Hyperbole, Masturbation, & Intransigent Atheists<\/a> [9-3-19]<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n
Unfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist<\/strong>:\u00a0<\/span>If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 \/ month \u2014 a mere 33 cents a day \u2014 would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see\u00a0my Resume<\/a>).\u00a0My work has been proven (by God\u2019s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences\u00a0from unsolicited \u201ctestimonies\u201d<\/a>).\u00a0I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and three children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.<\/div>\n
\n

*<\/p>\n

My book royalties from\u00a0three bestsellers in the field<\/a>\u00a0(published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.\u00a0 I provide over 2600 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have\u00a0written 50 books<\/a>.\u00a0It\u2019ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will start receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers. Thanks! See my\u00a0information on how to donate<\/a>\u00a0(including 100% tax-deductible donations). It\u2019s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my \u201cbusiness name\u201d there is called \u201cCatholic Used Book Service,\u201d from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago, but send to my email: apologistdave@gmail.com). Another easy way to send and receive money (with a bank account or a mobile phone) is through\u00a0Zelle<\/a>. Again, just send to my e-mail address.\u00a0May God abundantly bless you.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>Sarah_Loetscher<\/a>\u00a0(11-14-15)<\/span> [Pixabay<\/a> \/\u00a0Pixabay License<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Friendly agnostic \/ deist and regular on my blog,\u00a0VicqRuiz, (words in blue below) commented on my article, Masturbation: C. S. Lewis Explains Why it is Wrong, and I responded. If we go through another round of discussion, I will add it later. ***** I think you and Lewis are quite right that a man (or […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":40254,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[123],"tags":[2040,1753,2037,575,3153,2121,4559,1980,2015,2014,3155,873,2120,1692],"class_list":["post-40251","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-sexuality-and-gender-issues","tag-bible-sexuality","tag-catholic-sexuality","tag-christian-sexuality","tag-contraception","tag-contralife-will","tag-ejaculation","tag-humanae-vitae","tag-masturbation","tag-natural-family-planning","tag-nfp","tag-onanism","tag-openness-to-life","tag-orgasm","tag-procreation"],"yoast_head":"\nDebate: Masturbation Okay in Moderation or Intrinsically Wrong?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Many think masturbation is a matter of degree and moderation, & take the libertarian view, whereas we think it is intrinsically wrong. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40251","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=40251"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40251\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/40254"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=40251"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=40251"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=40251"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}