{"id":41499,"date":"2019-11-27T13:12:56","date_gmt":"2019-11-27T17:12:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=41499"},"modified":"2019-11-27T13:12:56","modified_gmt":"2019-11-27T17:12:56","slug":"confusing-pope-francis-ignorant-lazy-lay-catholics","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/confusing-pope-francis-ignorant-lazy-lay-catholics.html","title":{"rendered":"&#8220;Confusing&#8221; Pope Francis &#038; Ignorant, Lazy Lay Catholics"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-41502\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2019\/11\/Dunce6.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"500\" height=\"666\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">The original Facebook title of the first part of this was: \u201c<em>Has Pope Francis Sometimes Acted Imprudently, Causing Confusion That Could Have Been Prevented or Minimized? I Respectfully Think So<\/em>\u201c. As the discussion went on, I delved into the related question of an educated, responsible lay Catholic populace, and so the title changed. Reactionary <strong>Thomas A. Hunt<\/strong>\u2018s words (originally posted on my Facebook page) will be in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"3g7t9-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"3g7t9-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"3g7t9-0-0\">I know a lot of people from all walks of Catholicism, from the blissfully oblivious to the well-informed. Some people just turn off the information and focus on their local parish. That\u2019s not a bad way to live. Among those I know who seek to be informed, your EWTN viewers, your <span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<em>National Catholic<\/em>]<\/span> <em>Register<\/em>, CWR <span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<em>Catholic World Report<\/em>]<\/span>, Ignatius Press, Adoremus readers, well I have yet to find one who is not baffled by what the Holy Father says and does, except for some of the Patheos defenders. So I have questions.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"c6bos-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"c6bos-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"c6bos-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"8gtl8-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"8gtl8-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"8gtl8-0-0\">Are you willing to admit that the Holy Father falls short in his duty to foster unity, to confirm the brethren? For example, would any recent Pope allow a Scalfari to ascribe scandalous and heretical positions to the Holy Father, and not offer a correction, and not suspend subsequent interviews? Is Pope Francis\u2019 behavior here unnecessarily and possibly inappropriately provocative? Is it not behavior that provokes disunity?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"77k9s-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"77k9s-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"77k9s-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"6hasl-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"6hasl-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"6hasl-0-0\">And instead of a measured defense of the bowing to Pachamama, an explanation of how this is inculturation, i.e. instead of actually teaching, those who don\u2019t understand get the canard of racism thrown their way. How does that promote unity?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"e61dr-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"e61dr-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"e61dr-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"3aqrh-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"3aqrh-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-offset-key=\"3aqrh-0-0\">Is it really Pope bashing to ask such questions? Not in my book.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"5fgp7-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"5fgp7-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"5fgp7-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"1e1sg-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"1e1sg-0-0\">1. I have stated many times (including a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/05\/do-i-think-popes-can-never-be-criticized-for-any-reason-nope.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">blog post devoted to this matter<\/a>) that Pope Francis has acted imprudently and unwisely with regard to Scalfari, and has been lax in repudiating what that idiot continues to say about him (Jimmy Akin, another pope defender, says the same).<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"es6rj-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"es6rj-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"es6rj-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"3f39k-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"3f39k-0-0\">2. I\u2019ve also publicly stated several times, that the response to the \u201cPachamama\u201d fiasco by the Vatican was absurd and woefully inadequate (agreeing with the myriad of critics at least to <em>that<\/em>\u00a0extent). It\u2019s left to apologists like myself and non-reactionary Catholic journalists to explain what happened, to the best of our ability, which is infinitely less persuasive and effective than the Vatican and\/or Pope Francis doing it. It\u2019s a complete mystery to me why they haven\u2019t done so: regarding this and Scalfari (well, they <em>have<\/em>\u00a0with regard to Scalfari, but it keeps happening, anyway).<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"cmoh8-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"cmoh8-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"cmoh8-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"8d28-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"8d28-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"8d28-0-0\">3. I\u2019m also on record (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/i-hope-the-pope-will-provide-some-much-needed-clarity\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">at NCR, over two years ago<\/a>) calling for the pope to answer the <em>dubia<\/em>, and to clarify, as the Shepherd of the Church. I think it is all bum raps; nevertheless, I think it would have been very good for him to blow it out of the water and show how the insinuations are completely unfair, unwarranted, and unjust. My friend, Dr. Robert Fastiggi, wrote an article in which he shows that the <em>dubia<\/em> have indeed been <a href=\"https:\/\/www.lastampa.it\/vatican-insider-en\/2018\/03\/12\/news\/responding-to-the-five-dubia-from-amoris-laetitia-itself-1.33989886\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">answered already, in <em>Amoris Laetitia<\/em> itself<\/a>. And that might be what the pope would say, for all we know. But I still think it would be <em>better<\/em> for him to answer and refute the nonsense: just as we apologists almost always do if we are falsely accused or misunderstood, and we\u2019re not even shepherds; merely lowly lay teachers.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"ft80o-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"ft80o-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"ft80o-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"34tcn-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"34tcn-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"34tcn-0-0\">*****<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"7snqr-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"7snqr-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"7snqr-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"5a0lm-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"5a0lm-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"5a0lm-0-0\">That said: none of these things, of course, have to do with <em>theology<\/em> or suggested <em>heresy<\/em>. They are matters of prudence, presentation, communication, and \u201cPR\u201d (none of which are protected by the charism of infallibility).<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"bvfrr-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"bvfrr-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"bvfrr-0-0\">\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"\" data-block=\"true\" data-editor=\"6j698\" data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<div class=\"_1mf _1mj\" data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\"><span data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">There is no solid evidence that the \u201cPachamama\u201d incident <em>was<\/em> idolatry in the first place. All the critics simply assume it without documentation or argument, because to them it \u201clooks like\u201d an idol and they think it\u2019s ugly, to boot.\u00a0<\/span>For example, Fr. Pacwa said: \u201cWe\u2019re not <em><strong>stupid\u00a0<\/strong><\/em>. . . \u201d [i.e., in effect, \u201cwe know what an idol looks like\u201d]; well, neither are <strong><em>we<\/em><\/strong> \u2014 with all due respect to a great man \u2014 who still believe that documented evidence is necessary before lobbing an extremely serious accusation against fellow Catholics.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\"><\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">*****<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">*<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Thanks for the response. So you agree that in his capacity to promote unity and strengthen or confirm the brethren the Holy Father has fallen short. In other words, he is part of the problem of the decaying unity of our beloved Church.<\/span><\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">*<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<p>Well, I\u2019m merely saying (agreeing this far) that he has been arguably imprudent in a few cases, and arguably should have clarified.<\/p>\n<p>On the other hand, each individual Catholic has more than enough resources to think for themselves and determine the truth of things (including, for example, what Pope Francis thinks about heaven, hell, purgatory, the divinity of Christ, and Jesus\u2019 resurrection: all things that Scalfari claims he disbelieves in).\u00a0We have the Internet and all kinds of written sources, Catholic radio and TV, parish classes, etc. I\u2019ve written about (in <em>This Rock<\/em>, in 2004) how <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/05\/why-dont-catholics-read-the-bible.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Catholics don\u2019t read the Bible nearly as much as they should<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>So while I agree that it would have been good for the pope to clarify even such ridiculous false charges, at the same time I think it is <em>at least <strong>equally<\/strong> ridiculous<\/em> for Catholics to be dumb and clueless enough to<em> fall<\/em> for such inane charges in the first place. In other words, an ignorant, uncatechized Catholic population is a longstanding problem that was obviously there before Pope Francis became pope.<\/p>\n<p>This was true even of Phil Lawler\u2019s hit-piece book on the pope, where he insinuated <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/01\/lawler-vs-pope-francis-3-the-pope-annihilated-hell.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">that the pope may not believe in hell<\/a>, based on Scalfari\u2019s report. This was atrocious journalism, seeing that Lawler could have taken five minutes (ten, max) to get off his butt and search for these matters on Google (which I did, refuting his malicious gossip in the book). He\u2019s an educated man. He knew much better than to do this sort of shoddy, crappy \u201cinvestigative journalism.\u201d But his hostility to the pope was too great, and there was too much money to be made in a book trashing him.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t buy this notion that every Catholic either is or should be an infantile ignoramus, sitting there waiting to get their milk from a priest or the pope, and utterly unable to use their minds to figure out things on their own.\u00a0I think this is a caricature of real, authentic Catholicism and Catholic discipleship, that is rightly laughed at by Protestants, and used as a reason to reject Catholicism. And I dare say, their observing that kind of profound, stupefied (almost invincible) ignorance, dissuades them from becoming Catholics far more than anything <em>Pope Francis<\/em> says or does.<\/p>\n<p>I was 30 years old before I met a Catholic who could actually defend his or her faith and bring apologetics to bear, in a way that impressed me (an avid evangelical and apologist for seven years by that time). Result: I became a Catholic within two years. If this had happened ten years earlier, it is likely that I would have converted ten years earlier (which would have been even earlier than Scott Hahn did).<\/p>\n<p>Moreover, it is the sin and responsibility of Catholic lay media outlets and of priests who have been gossiping amongst themselves in their little enclaves, to not spread false rumors, innuendo, outright calumnies about the pope. This was never more evident than during the \u201cPachamama\u201d fiasco. The ones who spread these lies will be accountable before God, and they bear a heavy responsibility for the devastation (however great) that has resulted. It can\u2019t <em>just<\/em>\u00a0be blamed on the pope and the Vatican. They bear some blame (I agree, and they could have nipped this in the bud), but so <em>also<\/em>\u00a0do the rumormongers and dishonest (largely reactionary) journalist efforts. Anyone who wants to read a different take on that fiasco may be interested in my articles on it:<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/pachamama-statues-marian-veneration-or-blasphemous-idolatry.html\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cPachamama\u201d [?] Statues: Marian Veneration or Blasphemous Idolatry?<\/a>\u00a0[11-5-19]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/pachamama-fiasco-hysterical-reactionaryism-as-usual.html\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cPachamama\u201d Fiasco: Hysterical Reactionaryism, as Usual<\/a>\u00a0[11-8-19]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/pachamama-confusion-fault-of-vatican-or-catholic-media.html\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cPachamama\u201d Confusion: Fault of Vatican or Catholic Media?\u00a0<\/a>[11-12-19]<\/p>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/anti-pachamama-doc-usual-suspect-reactionaries-sign.html\" target=\"_blank\">Anti-\u201cPachamama\u201d Doc: \u201cUsual Suspect\u201d Reactionaries Sign<\/a>\u00a0[11-14-19]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/vatican-ii-alleged-pachamama-idolatry-sez-fanatics.html\" target=\"_blank\">Vatican II \u2013&gt; Alleged \u201cPachamama\u201d Idolatry, Sez Fanatics<\/a>\u00a0[11-15-19]<\/div>\n<p>*<\/p>\n<p>I just put up a post yesterday, of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/g-k-chesterton-on-the-incompetence-of-journalists.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Chesterton quotes regarding journalism<\/a> (he being among their number himself). Sadly, what he observed over a hundred years ago applies even to many current <em>Catholic<\/em> journalistic efforts today, when it comes to Pope Francis:<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<p>A Labour Member made recently the following observations, if he is correctly reported \u2014 which, since I am a journalist myself I know to be extremely unlikely. (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Collected-Works-Chesterton-Vol-Illustrated\/dp\/089870118X\/ref=sr_1_1\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>The Illustrated London News<\/em><\/a>, 9 February 1907)<\/p>\n<p>Journalists are generally the stupidest of men . . . (<em>Ibid<\/em>., 1 June 1907)<\/p>\n<p>[N]early everything, as reported in the ordinary newspapers, seems to be pure nonsense. . . . [F]ortunately, I have penetrated far enough into the facts of the modern world never to believe the newspapers. . . . All that anybody ever really meant as the evil of gossip is much more characteristic of established journalism . . .\u00a0 (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Illustrated-London-1908-1910-Collected-Chesterton\/dp\/0898701384\/ref=sr_1_1\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">1 February 1908<\/a>)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<p>C. S. Lewis believed exactly the same thing:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Yes, the\u00a0<em>Time<\/em>\u00a0article [cover story on him] was ghastly: but I suppose no one of sense believes such things. I wouldn\u2019t hang a dog on a journalist\u2019s evidence myself. (<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Collected-Letters-Lewis-Broadcasts-1931-1949\/dp\/0060883324\/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Collected+Letters+of+C.+S.+Lewis%2C+Vol.+II%3A+Books%2C+Broadcasts%2C+and+the+War%2C+1931-1949&amp;qid=1570472794&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>The Collected Letters of C. S. Lewis, Vol. II: Books, Broadcasts, and the War, 1931-1949<\/em><\/a>, edited by Walter Hooper, HarperSanFrancisco, 2004; 8 April 1948, p. 849)<\/p>\n<p>As to MacArthur, I don\u2019t feel in a position to have clear opinions about anyone I know only from newspapers. You see, whenever they deal with anyone (or anything) I know myself, I find they\u2019re always a mass of lies &amp; misunderstandings: so I conclude they\u2019re no better in the places where I\u00a0<em>don\u2019t<\/em>\u00a0know. (<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Collected-Letters-C-S-Lewis-Cambridge\/dp\/0060819227\/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1570476135&amp;sr=1-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>The Collected Letters of C. S. Lewis, Vol. III: Narnia, Cambridge, and Joy 1950-1963<\/em><\/a>, edited by Walter Hooper, HarperSanFrancisco, 2007; 30 April 1951, p. 114)<\/p>\n<p>But don\u2019t send me any newspaper cuttings. I never believe a word said in the papers. The real history of a period (as we always discover a few years later) has very little to do with all that, and private people like you and me are never allowed to know it while it is going on. (<em>Ibid<\/em>., 17 November 1952, p. 252)<\/p>\n<p>I never read the papers. Why does anyone? They\u2019re nearly all lies, and one has to wade thru\u2019 such reams of verbiage and \u2018write up\u2019 to find out even what they\u2019re saying. (<em>Ibid<\/em>., 26 October 1955, p. 667)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>You go on to say that I lack <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cintellectual integrity.\u201d<\/span> I say that these efforts of muckraking, cynical, anti-Francis, quasi-schismatic journalism are typified by <em>precisely<\/em> that characteristic. And <em>that<\/em> is a far worse trait to have \u2014 I submit \u2014 than being<em> imprudent<\/em>, as I have agreed that the Pope and the Vatican <em>have<\/em> been in some widely criticized instances.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">If the synod organizers, appointed by the Pope had not been people like Bishop Krauetler, who is proud to have spent 30 years in the region and to have never baptized a single indigenous person, who is on record for supporting the ordination of women, people might buy some innocent inculturation twist to the Pachamama fiasco. Or if resuscitation were not being given to Liberation theologians. Or . . . if the UN and its sustainable development goals (featuring front and center \u201cwomen\u2019s health\u201d meaning all sorts of intrinsically evil things like contraception and abortion) were not given such uncritical welcome behind the scenes. Clearly, trust has been broken. So people don\u2019t buy the \u201csplainin'\u201d of you defenders. It rings ever more hollow. This is tragic. The center cannot hold when high ranking officials, people openly supported by the Pope, take questionable positions and say provocative things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">You don\u2019t lay enough blame at the feet of them who provoke, and you dwell on those who most vociferously react to the provocation. It lacks intellectual integrity. Sorry Dave, that\u2019s how I see it.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<p>I agree that most of that (accepting your report at face value) is atrocious and scandalous. Liberals have been wreaking havoc in the Church since the early 1950s. But of course, the blame for their nefarious doings \u2014 if we are to blame popes \u2014 goes back all the way to Ven. Pius XII. That\u2019s a much more complex issue.<\/p>\n<p>We know now that the vast majority of priests known to have sexually abused, were ordained prior to Vatican II.<\/p>\n<p>My sole concern (as an apologist, not a muckraking journalist like Lawler or Marshall or someone with your quasi-schismatic \/ doom and gloom mentality) with the \u201cPachamama\u201d fiasco, was to determine if knowing, conscious, deliberate idolatry occurred. To date, I have seen no indisputable documented proof that it did. And as a good Catholic, I don\u2019t accuse fellow Catholics (including the pope, as it were) of rank and blasphemous idolatry without solid, ironclad proof.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">So you\u2019d like pachamama to have come with a little tag around its neck establishing its identity as authentic idol.<\/span><\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">*<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">Simple documentation of the practitioners of that ritual saying that they intended to worship an idol as God, would be sufficient. Good luck.<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\"><\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">***<\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\"><\/div>\n<div data-offset-key=\"bq52i-0-0\">\n<div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\"><strong>Unfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist<\/strong>:<\/span>\u00a0If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 \/ month \u2014 a mere 33 cents a day \u2014 would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\">my Resume<\/a>).\u00a0My work has been proven (by God\u2019s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/07\/fruit-156-reasons-why-catholic-apologetics-is-a-good-thing.html\" target=\"_blank\">from unsolicited \u201ctestimonies\u201d<\/a>).\u00a0I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and three children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>My book royalties from<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/collections\/apologetics-bestsellers-numerous-topics\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u00a0three bestsellers in the field<\/a>\u00a0(published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.\u00a0 I provide over 2600 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2009\/06\/dave-armstrongs-catholic-apologetics-bookstore-49-books-paperback-e-pub-mobi-nook-book-amazon-kindle-itunes-pdf-rock-bottom-regular-prices-67-savings-for-e-books-2.html\" target=\"_blank\">written 50 books<\/a>.\u00a0It\u2019ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will be receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers (and \u201clikes\u201d and links and shares). Thanks!<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>See my\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\">information on how to donate<\/a>\u00a0(including 100% tax-deductible donations). It\u2019s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my \u201cbusiness name\u201d there is called \u201cCatholic Used Book Service,\u201d from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago, but send to my email: apologistdave@gmail.com). Another easy way to send and receive money (with a bank account or a mobile phone) is through\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.zellepay.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Zelle<\/a>. Again, just send to my e-mail address.\u00a0May God abundantly bless you.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>***<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><strong>Photo credit: <\/strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Vintage dunce cap<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicdomainpictures.net\/en\/view-image.php?image=269133&amp;picture=dunce-hat\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">PublicDomainPictures.Net<\/a>]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>***<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The original Facebook title of the first part of this was: \u201cHas Pope Francis Sometimes Acted Imprudently, Causing Confusion That Could Have Been Prevented or Minimized? I Respectfully Think So\u201c. As the discussion went on, I delved into the related question of an educated, responsible lay Catholic populace, and so the title changed. Reactionary Thomas [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":41502,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[138],"tags":[9630,9627,9621,9618,9624,1143,9597,9615,133],"class_list":["post-41499","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-papacy-infallibility","tag-cardinal-newman-lay-participation","tag-cardinal-newman-vatican-ii","tag-catholic-laymen","tag-catholic-laypeople","tag-lay-participation","tag-second-vatican-council","tag-st-john-henry-cardinal-newman","tag-st-john-henry-newman","tag-vatican-ii"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>&quot;Confusing&quot; Pope Francis &amp; Ignorant, Lazy Lay Catholics<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Pope Francis &amp; the Vatican have arguably been imprudent with regard to Scalfari, &quot;Pachamama&quot; &amp; the dubia. But I also excoriate ignorant lay Catholics &amp; Catholic journalism.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/confusing-pope-francis-ignorant-lazy-lay-catholics.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"&quot;Confusing&quot; Pope Francis &amp; Ignorant, Lazy Lay Catholics\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Pope Francis &amp; the Vatican have arguably been imprudent with regard to Scalfari, &quot;Pachamama&quot; &amp; the dubia. But I also excoriate ignorant lay Catholics &amp; Catholic journalism.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/confusing-pope-francis-ignorant-lazy-lay-catholics.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2019-11-27T17:12:56+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2019\/11\/Dunce6.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"500\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"666\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"12 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/confusing-pope-francis-ignorant-lazy-lay-catholics.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/confusing-pope-francis-ignorant-lazy-lay-catholics.html\",\"name\":\"\\\"Confusing\\\" Pope Francis & Ignorant, Lazy Lay Catholics\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2019-11-27T17:12:56+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2019-11-27T17:12:56+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"Pope Francis & the Vatican have arguably been imprudent with regard to Scalfari, \\\"Pachamama\\\" & the dubia. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"\"Confusing\" Pope Francis & Ignorant, Lazy Lay Catholics","description":"Pope Francis & the Vatican have arguably been imprudent with regard to Scalfari, \"Pachamama\" & the dubia. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41499","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=41499"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41499\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/41502"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=41499"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=41499"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=41499"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}