{"id":4311,"date":"2015-11-02T13:43:04","date_gmt":"2015-11-02T17:43:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=4311"},"modified":"2017-04-27T13:38:11","modified_gmt":"2017-04-27T17:38:11","slug":"acts-164-vs-sola-scriptura-john-calvin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/acts-164-vs-sola-scriptura-john-calvin.html","title":{"rendered":"Acts 16:4 vs. Sola Scriptura & John Calvin? (Conciliar Authority)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Is Conciliar Authority Binding on Protestants (Especially When it is Guided by St. Paul and St. Peter?)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"PeterPaul\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Sts. Peter and Paul<\/em>, by Guido Reni (1575-1642)<\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

Jerry Walls<\/a> is an evangelical philosopher who is writing an upcoming book on Catholicism. He has written or edited a dozen books and over eighty articles. His words (in blue<\/span>) following, come from his public Facebook post,\u00a0Roman\u00a0Apologetic\u00a0Overreach: An All Saints Day Meditation<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n

* * * * *<\/p>\n

Let me be frank. I find it very annoying when Roman apologists badly overreach in order to advance their claims about the Church of Rome. It is especially annoying when done by former evangelicals who seem bent on discrediting the Churches that first taught them to love Jesus and nurtured them in the faith, in order to legitimize their decision to join a Church that entails breaking communion with their previous Churches.<\/span><\/p>\n

Here is the sort of thing I have in mind.<\/span><\/p>\n

[A]nother Roman Catholic claimed that Acts 15 was a problem text for the Protestant doctrine of the authority of Scripture, . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

. . . the text comments that the apostles and elders, \u201cwith the consent of the whole church\u201d decided to send a delegation to represent them. The text appeals to the unanimity of the decision, and to the leadership of the Holy Spirit 9 (vv 25, 28), but never is Peter\u2019s testimony singled out as having settled the matter or as the decisive factor in the decision. (For a thoughtful discussion of Acts 15 in the context of a defense of \u201csola scriptura\u201d see chapter 3 of Reformed Catholicity by Michael Allen and Scott R. Swain). There is nothing here remotely problematic for Protestant ecclesiology.<\/span><\/p>\n

Again, the point here is about overreaching claims. Many Roman Catholics acknowledge that the distinctive claims of their church are not clearly supported by scripture or early church history.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Granted, some Catholics can make too-grandiose claims in a triumphant manner. We hardly ever deny that y\u2019all are Christians, unlike how some of you (not including you, Jerry) regard us, but that point is well-taken.\u00a0<\/span>

That said; in the spirit of ecumen<\/span><\/span>ical disagreement-within-respect, I have a bone to pick with one of your arguments. You stated: \u201cto claim their case is decisive or that Protestants have no viable interpretations of the contested texts is overreaching of the worst sort.\u201d I agree again. Therefore, I\u2019d like to hear how you interpret one passage having to do with the Jerusalem Council.<\/span>

\u201cThere is nothing here remotely problematic for Protestant ecclesiology.\u201d<\/span>

Okay. How about this passage:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Acts 16:4 (RSV)<\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>As they [Paul and Timothy] went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n


When (among Protestants) was the last council held a particular location, with the elders of the entire Church [at that time, Paul and Peter and others], binding for [Protestant] Christians at large in other locations, far away? Don\u2019t Protestants always have the right to say that it was in error, since Scripture alone is their rule of faith?<\/span>

After all, that\u2019s precisely what Luther said (councils can err, so he went by Scripture and plain reason), so why couldn\u2019t Christians reject the decisions of Acts 15 and defy Paul\u2019s injunction, described in Acts 16:4?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Any Protestants out there wanna educate me as to how Protestants interpret this?<\/span><\/p>\n

Both Witherington and Keener have commentaries on Acts if you really want to know.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s fine. I love commentaries. But I also wondered what you\u00a0<\/em>thought, since you made such a point in the post, about the Jerusalem Council not<\/em>\u00a0being a problem for Protestant ecclesiology.<\/span><\/p>\n

You really think it is a problem for Protestant to think a decision that was made by the apostles and was given to the churches had authority? By the same apostles who authored New Testament books?<\/span><\/p>\n

Okay, so no Protestant was at liberty to dissent from the decisions of that council? Luther\u2019s \u201ccouncils err\u201d notion doesn\u2019t apply here? If they CANNOT dissent from it, how is that not a violation of sola Scriptura<\/em>?<\/span>

John Calvin<\/a> apparently had a problem with<\/span><\/span>\u00a0apostolic and conciliar authority. He gets out of the seeming dilemma in his Commentaries<\/em> by saying (with no NT warrant that I can see) that it was merely a temporary decree:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n


In these words Luke doth signify unto us how desirous Paul was of peace. The best and strongest bond to keep and foster peace among the churches, was to keep that which was set down by the apostles. When Paul taketh great pains about that, he taketh great heed lest through his fault there arise any trouble. And let us remember that that continued but for a time. Because, so soon as he seeth the danger of offense cease, he doth quite unburthen the churches, and setting apart the decree, he maketh that free which the apostles had their forbidden. And yet doth he not cancel or violate by that abrogation that which the apostles had decreed, or contemn the authors themselves; because they were not determined to establish a perpetual law, but only to mitigate for a short time that which might hurt weak consciences; as I did more at large declare in the former chapter. Whereby the folly of the Papists is sufficiently refuted, who do grievously lay to our charge that we be far unlike Paul, because we will have the consciences of the godly governed by the Word of God alone, setting light by the decrees of the Church, as they call them, and not to be subject to the will of men.<\/span>

<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Do you agree with Calvin that what the Holy Spirit through apostles (including Peter and Paul) decreed, was only temporary?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

It was a problem for Calvin to think that a decision that was made by the apostles and was given to the churches had permanent authority. That was too \u201d subject to the will of men\u201d for him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Like I said, there are numerous outstanding commentaries on Acts by Protestant scholars. If they don\u2019t answer your questions in they way you prefer to support Roman claims, sorry. That does not mean they have a problem with Acts 16:4 and your attempt to say they must is typical overreaching.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m not so much trying to support \u201cRoman\u201d claims, as to understand Protestant claims.\u00a0<\/span>

I haven\u2019t said anything about them (apart from Calvin). I was asking you because you gave a strong opinion of the Jerusalem Council as perfectly consistent with Pr<\/span><\/span>otestant ecclesiology.<\/span>

Calvin was a Protestant scholar and pretty important figure, and he says that the decision was merely temporary<\/em>. I give him points for self-consistency as well as extraordinary chutzpah<\/em>.\u00a0<\/span>When push comes to shove, Calvin will dissent from Peter and Paul and the Holy Spirit, rather than give up sola Scriptura<\/em>.<\/span>

But he\u2019s just one guy. I am assuming that Protestant commentators today have come up with a better solution than that<\/em>.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Is Conciliar Authority Binding on Protestants (Especially When it is Guided by St. Paul and St. Peter?) Sts. Peter and Paul, by Guido Reni (1575-1642) [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] * * * Jerry Walls is an evangelical philosopher who is writing an upcoming book on Catholicism. He has written or edited a dozen books […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":4312,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31,131],"tags":[1329,779,2354,1328,1327,2355,2348,32,47],"class_list":["post-4311","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible-and-tradition","category-church-ecclesiology","tag-apostolic-authority","tag-apostolic-tradition","tag-bible-and-tradition","tag-conciliar-authority","tag-jerusalem-council","tag-john-calvin","tag-martin-luther","tag-rule-of-faith","tag-sola-scriptura"],"yoast_head":"\nActs 16:4 vs. Sola Scriptura & John Calvin? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4311","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4311"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4311\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4312"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4311"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4311"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4311"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}