{"id":43140,"date":"2020-01-08T13:15:21","date_gmt":"2020-01-08T17:15:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=43140"},"modified":"2020-01-08T13:15:21","modified_gmt":"2020-01-08T17:15:21","slug":"dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html","title":{"rendered":"Dialogue w Lutheran Pastor on the Protestant Revolt"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>. . . with special emphasis on the beliefs of the Church Fathers: were they were more \u201cCatholic\u201d or \u201cProtestant\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-43143\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2020\/01\/LutherWittenbergReformers.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"434\" height=\"768\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ilt.academia.edu\/KenHowes\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Pastor Ken Howes<\/a> (Missouri Synod) is a good friend of mine, with whom I have enjoyed several cordial, constructive dialogues. I have great respect for him. This is a prime example of one of them. He was responding on Facebook to my article, <a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/10\/medieval-catholic-corruption-main-cause-protestant-revolt.html\" target=\"_blank\">Medieval Catholic Corruption: Main Cause of Protestant Revolt?<\/a> His words will be in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">There\u2019s a lot to answer there, and I won\u2019t undertake more than a short answer. Papal corruption, though it was not the chief issue in the Reformation, was indeed the immediate trigger, and it was the reason that there was so much of a response from the laity. The immediate trigger of the Reformation was that for about half a century, Popes had been routinely selling benefices, and they had been doing it on and off for several centuries. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">For about thirty years, the customary way to become Pope had been to bribe the right cardinals; the Popes had been buying their office. The Simon they were most resembling wasn\u2019t Simon Peter but Simon Magus. Leo X sold the archepiscopal see of Mainz to Albrecht von Brandenburg, who was already Archbishop of Halberstadt and bishop of one other diocese as well. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">This was in violation of a couple of canons of ancient councils condemning the sale of benefices and holding more than one bishopric at the same time. Albrecht did not have the money to buy this archdiocese, so Leo suggested that he borrow the money, and raise the money to repay the banker (Bankhaus Fugger, in Augsburg) by the sale of indulgences. Leo agreed to sign the indulgences to enable Albrecht to do that. Albrecht became Archbishop of Mainz, and commissioned a Dominican monk named Johann Tetzel to sell the indulgences. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Again, this has the stench of Simon Magus about it\u2013the sale of grace. The practice would only be outlawed in the Church in the early 1900\u2019s by Pope Benedict XV. Martin Luther objected to the idea that absolution was being decoupled from penitence. Indeed, he wrote the 95 Theses in the belief that the Pope did not know what was going on, how his indulgences were being dispensed, as a loyal Catholic.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">There was, however, another, bigger issue, and it went back to a terrific blowup in the Church in the 13th century between the Scholastics, the greatest of whom was St Thomas Aquinas, and the Augustinians who had previously dominated the Catholic Church. As the great English Catholic writer Chesterton recognizes, the Reformation was above all the great counter-stroke of the Augustinians. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It was no accident that Luther, who began the Reformation in Germany, and Robert Barnes, who began the Reformation in England, were not only both Augustinians but fairly prominent ones; Barnes was the prior of the Augustinian cloister in Cambridge, and Luther was an up-and-coming monk, priest and theologian in the Augustinian order. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It was not only a matter of bribery when, at the Diet of Worms, the Archbishop of Trier attempted to settle the dispute by offering Luther the position of prior of one of the richest monasteries in the Moselle valley in return for his being willing to cease public criticism of the papacy\u2013he could preach what he wanted in his monastery but would have to stop making it public outside the monastery\u2019s walls.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>According to Catholic Answers (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.catholic.com\/qa\/does-the-catholic-church-still-sell-indulgences\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cDoes the Catholic Church Still Sell Indulgences?\u201d<\/a>):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The Catholic Church does not now nor has it ever approved the sale of indulgences. This is to be distinguished from the undeniable fact that individual Catholics (perhaps the best known of them being the German Dominican Johann Tetzel [1465-1519]) did sell indulgences\u2013but in doing so they acted contrary to explicit Church regulations. This practice is utterly opposed to the Catholic Church\u2019s teaching on indulgences, and it cannot be regarded as a teaching or practice of the Church.<\/p>\n<p>In the 16th century, when the abuse of indulgences was at its height, Cardinal Cajetan (Tommaso de Vio, 1469-1534) wrote about the problem: \u201cPreachers act in the name of the Church so long as they teach the doctrines of Christ and the Church; but if they teach, guided by their own minds and arbitrariness of will, things of which they are ignorant, they cannot pass as representatives of the Church; it need not be wondered at that they go astray.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>For more on this topic, see my papers:<\/p>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/07\/classic-catholic-reflections-on-indulgences.html\" target=\"_blank\">Classic Catholic Reflections on Indulgences<\/a>\u00a0[1994]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/08\/biblical-evidence-for-indulgences.html\" target=\"_blank\">Biblical Evidence for Indulgences<\/a>\u00a0[1996]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/08\/catholic-indulgences-history-myths.html\" target=\"_blank\">Catholic Indulgences: History &amp; Myths<\/a>\u00a0[8-6-16]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/03\/myths-facts-re-tetzel-indulgences.html\" target=\"_blank\">Myths and Facts Regarding Tetzel and Indulgences\u00a0<\/a>[11-25-16; published in\u00a0<em>Catholic Herald<\/em>]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/the-biblical-roots-and-history-of-indulgences\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Biblical Roots and History of Indulgences<\/a>\u00a0[<em>National Catholic Register<\/em>, 5-25-18]<br>\n*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/vs-james-white-11-biblical-evidence-for-indulgences.html\" target=\"_blank\">Vs. James White #11: Biblical Evidence for Indulgences<\/a>\u00a0[11-15-19]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The Augustinian\/Scholastic controversy is far more complex than could be set forth in a few paragraphs\u2013even in his discussion of it in his biography of St. Thomas Aquinas, Chesterton, a better mind than I, is simplifying it greatly. The shortest possible condensation would be that St Augustine had taught, \u201cIf anyone tells you anything, and cannot support it from Scripture, do not believe him, no matter who he is;\u201d the Scholastics had said, \u201cBut we receive Scripture by reason and together with the traditions of the Church; in applying our reason, we will use the principles of reason introduced by the classical philosophers such as Socrates, Plato and Aristotle.\u201d <\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Luther and the other conservative Reformers (I am not making the case for more radical people like Zwingli, whom I wouldn\u2019t claim) sought to restore Augustinian principles. They considered themselves good Catholics who were <em>re-forming<\/em>\u00a0the Catholic faith to what it had been in the days of late antiquity. Whether they were right or wrong about that is the real question between those who remain in the Roman Catholic Church and those in the more conservative churches of the Reformation (Lutheran and Anglican); but the German and English Reformers sought to restore what they understood to be the true tradition of the Catholic Church. When you read the most important writings of Lutheranism, you will see profuse quotation from St Augustine, St Jerome, St Ambrose, St John Chrysostom, and other early Fathers.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The Scholastics had some honorable early Church precedent in applying classical philosophy to theology. Clement of Alexandria and Origen were great early Fathers of the Church who relied greatly on classical philosophy. On the other hand, that was very controversial even then\u2013that\u2019s why they\u2019re not St Clement of Alexandria or St Origen; the Church in the third and fourth centuries, especially in the West, took a dim view of giving such weight to classical philosophy. <\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">They were dealing with Neo-Platonism, which, though it influenced the Church greatly in that period, was nonetheless something of a rival to Christian thought. St Augustine, St John Chrysostom and St Jerome had to contend against Neo-Platonism, which was why they insisted that all doctrine must be supported by Scripture. (The phrase \u201csola Scriptura\u201d was coined by St Thomas Aquinas, much later.)<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Let\u2019s present St. Augustine\u2019s views on the rule of faith in a balance, not in a one-sided way. He <strong><em>also<\/em><\/strong> wrote:<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div>And thus a man who is resting upon faith, hope, and love, and who keeps a firm hold upon these, does not need the Scriptures except for the purpose of instructing others. Accordingly, many live without copies of the Scriptures, even in solitude, on the strength of these three graces.\u00a0 (<em>On Christian Doctrine<\/em>, I, 39:43; NPNF 1, Vol. II, 534)\n<p>I believe that this practice [of not rebaptizing heretics and schismatics] comes from apostolic tradition, just as so many other practices not found in their writings nor in the councils of their successors, but which, because they are kept by the whole Church everywhere, are believed to have been commanded and handed down by the Apostles themselves.\u00a0(<em>On Baptism<\/em>, 2, 7, 12; cf. NPNF 1, IV, 430)<\/p>\n<p>. . . the custom, which is opposed to Cyprian, may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings.\u00a0(<em>On Baptism<\/em>, 5, 23:31; NPNF 1, IV, 475)<\/p>\n<p>But those reasons which I have here given, I have either gathered from the authority of the church, according to the tradition of our forefathers, or from the testimony of the divine Scriptures, or from the nature itself of numbers, and of similitudes. No sober person will decide against reason, no Christian against the Scriptures, no peaceable person against the church.\u00a0(<em>On the Trinity<\/em>, 4,6:10; NPNF 1, Vol. III, 75)<\/p><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div>Lutheran historian Heiko Oberman noted concerning St. Augustine and the rule of faith:<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div>Augustine\u2019s legacy to the middle ages on the question of Scripture and Tradition is a two-fold one. In the first place, he reflects the early Church principle of the coinherence of Scripture and Tradition. While repeatedly asserting the ultimate authority of Scripture, Augustine does not oppose this at all to the authority of the Church Catholic . . . The Church has a practical priority: her authority as expressed in the direction-giving meaning of commovere is an instrumental authority, the door that leads to the fullness of the Word itself.\n<p>But there is another aspect of Augustine\u2019s thought . . . we find mention of an authoritative extrascriptural oral tradition. While on the one hand the Church \u201cmoves\u201d the faithful to discover the authority of Scripture, Scripture on the other hand refers the faithful back to the authority of the Church with regard to a series of issues with which the Apostles did not deal in writing. Augustine refers here to the baptism of heretics . . .\u00a0(<em>The Harvest of Medieval Theology<\/em>, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, revised, 1967, 370-371)<\/p><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The quotation from St Augustine was a direct quotation. My statement of the Scholastics\u2019 position was a summary, but I think a fair one. As to the quotations Dave introduces, of course many could not read the Scriptures and therefore lived without reading them; but St Augustine certainly is not saying that those who teach can teach without the Scriptures. There are indeed some issues which the apostles and evangelists did not address directly; those still have to be approached Scripturally, in terms of reasonable deduction from what they did say. <\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Catholic dogma on this point of course says that tradition cannot speak against Scripture; the problem from the Lutheran viewpoint is that Catholic dogma, and even more so, practice, and even more so, the popular piety within the Catholic Church, has at various points become contrary to Scripture.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Just to sum up, it can fairly be debated whether the Reformers were correctly applying the early Church Fathers. I think they were; Dave thinks they weren\u2019t. That\u2019s why I\u2019m a Lutheran and he\u2019s a Roman Catholic. What should not be said is that they were attempting to overthrow the Church. What they were trying to do was restore the Church to what they believed was its true tradition. In their minds, they were good Catholics trying to bring their church back to correct teaching and practice; the mindset, though not the specifics of doctrine, would be the same as that of the traditionalist Catholics who have dissented from certain actions of the Church in the last century.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Are you saying that the following is a \u201cdirect quotation\u201d from Augustine?:\u00a0\u201cIf anyone tells you anything, and cannot support it from Scripture, do not believe him, no matter who he is.\u201d\u00a0I\u2019m trying to search for it and I\u2019m coming up with nothing. Can you give me a primary source reference for it? Thanks.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I\u2019ll see if I can get it for you. I read it in a secondary source (Chemnitz, I believe); I\u2019ll see if he or the editor of the English translation gives the specific source.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>I see some stuff in Chemnitz, <em>Examination of Trent<\/em>, pp. 151-152 that might be (or are similar to) the quote you reference. I did a very lengthy three-part critique of this book [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/10\/lutheran-chemnitz-wrong-re-fathers-sola-scriptura.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">one<\/a> \/<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/10\/lutheran-chemnitz-errors-re-fathers-sola-scriptura.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> two<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/08\/church-fathers-justification-martin-chemnitz-vs-catholicism.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">three<\/a>].<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Yes, that\u2019s the book I\u2019m in at the moment.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cIn their minds, they were good Catholics trying to bring their church back to correct teaching and practice\u201d<\/span>\n<p>I think this is fundamentally absurd, in light of, e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/09\/50-heterodox-beliefs-of-luther-in-1520.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Luther\u2019s dissent on at least 50 points by 1520<\/a>, before he was excommunicated (as I have documented).\u00a0Here are Luther\u2019s 50 points of departure:<\/p>\n<p>1. Separation of justification from sanctification.<br>\n2. Extrinsic, forensic, imputed notion of justification.<br>\n3. Fiduciary faith.<br>\n4. Private judgment over against ecclesial infallibility.<br>\n5. Tossing out seven books of the Bible.<br>\n6. Denial of venial sin.<br>\n7. Denial of merit.<br>\n8. The damned should be happy that they are damned and accept God\u2019s will.<br>\n9. Jesus offered Himself for damnation and possible hellfire.<br>\n10. No good work can be done except by a justified man.<br>\n11. All baptized men are priests (denial of the sacrament of ordination).<br>\n12. All baptized men can give absolution.<br>\n13. Bishops do not truly hold that office; God has not instituted it.<br>\n14. Popes do not truly hold that office; God has not instituted it.<br>\n15. Priests have no special, indelible character.<br>\n16. Temporal authorities have power over the Church; even bishops and popes; to assert the contrary was a mere presumptuous invention.<br>\n17. Vows of celibacy are wrong and should be abolished.<br>\n18. Denial of papal infallibility.<br>\n19. Belief that unrighteous priests or popes lose their authority (contrary to Augustine\u2019s rationale against the Donatists).<br>\n20. The keys of the kingdom were not just given to Peter.<br>\n21. Private judgment of every individual to determine matters of faith.<br>\n22. Denial that the pope has the right to call or confirm a council.<br>\n23. Denial that the Church has the right to demand celibacy of certain callings.<br>\n24. There is no such vocation as a monk; God has not instituted it.<br>\n25. Feast days should be abolished, and all church celebrations confined to Sundays.<br>\n26. Fasts should be strictly optional.<br>\n27. Canonization of saints is thoroughly corrupt and should stop.<br>\n28. Confirmation is not a sacrament.<br>\n29. Indulgences should be abolished.<br>\n30. Dispensations should be abolished.<br>\n31. Philosophy (Aristotle as prime example) is an unsavory, detrimental influence on Christianity.<br>\n32. Transubstantiation is \u201ca monstrous idea.\u201d<br>\n33. The Church cannot institute sacraments.<br>\n34. Denial of the \u201cwicked\u201d belief that the mass is a good work.<br>\n35. Denial of the \u201cwicked\u201d belief that the mass is a true sacrifice.<br>\n36. Denial of the sacramental notion of ex opere operato.<br>\n37. Denial that penance is a sacrament.<br>\n38. Assertion that the Catholic Church had \u201ccompletely abolished\u201d even the practice of penance.<br>\n39. Claim that the Church had abolished faith as an aspect of penance.<br>\n40. Denial of apostolic succession.<br>\n41. Any layman who can should call a general council.<br>\n42. Penitential works are worthless.<br>\n43. None of what Catholics believe to be the seven sacraments have any biblical proof.<br>\n44. Marriage is not a sacrament.<br>\n45. Annulments are a senseless concept and the Church has no right to determine or grant annulments.<br>\n46. Whether divorce is allowable is an open question.<br>\n47. Divorced persons should be allowed to remarry.<br>\n48. Jesus allowed divorce when one partner committed adultery.<br>\n49. The priest\u2019s daily office is \u201cvain repetition.\u201d<br>\n50. Extreme unction is not a sacrament (there are only two sacraments: baptism and the Eucharist).<\/p>\n<p>If that is \u201creform\u201d and not \u201crevolution\u201d then certainly a different definition of \u201creform\u201d is being utilized. It\u2019s easy to grasp my point, by using analogy: I go into the headquarters of LCMS and say that LCMS has gotten 50 major things wrong about the Christian faith, and I demand that I should be treated like a good Lutheran who has no desire to leave Lutheranism: but merely to bring Lutheranism back to its proper roots.<\/p><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Without going to more time, one could get plenty of support from early Fathers for 31 and 33, and from Gelasius for 32. Many of the things you list simply were not taught or practiced in the early Church. Indulgences? Papal infallibility? Those are\u00a0things for which you can find little or no support in the early Church. <\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">You see a great many bishops, often a consensus of bishops, opposing decisions of the Bishop of Rome, made in his capacity as such and dealing with issues of faith and morals in the early Church; the sixth Council anathematized a Pope who had accepted monothelitism. The list of bishops who opposed Rome at different times on issues affecting faith and morals includes several saints, the most prominent of whom would be St Cyprian, who specifically said that the decisions of a synod over which he presided at Carthage were not appealable to Rome.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>***<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I took a look at your critique of his [Chemnitz\u2019] book. It doesn\u2019t really get to my point which was that they <em>believed<\/em>\u00a0that they were simply restoring Catholic doctrine. As to your last, on how many of those points did Luther say, \u201cThe Catholic Church has always been wrong since its first days?\u201d Wasn\u2019t he in all cases saying, \u201cThe teaching I am disputing is contrary to Scripture,\u201d and in all or almost all cases saying, \u201cThe teaching of the Church was formerly different\u201d or at least \u201cThe Church did not teach this before (some date after 500 AD)\u201d?<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I am not here arguing whether the Reformers were right or wrong. I am arguing that they did not <strong><em>believe<\/em><\/strong> they were introducing a novel teaching not before seen in the Church. And be careful that you are not adopting the posture for which you criticize Chemnitz\u2013that of imputing the worst motives to the opponent.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Well, the most charitable way I can view it is granting that they wrongly thought they were appealing to true patristic doctrine, but in fact were almost systematically wrong about it, as I have shown time and again in debates with Lutherans and Calvinists over patristic beliefs.\n<p>I\u2019m happy to grant sincerity: no problem; always have been. Luther was sincere (and dead wrong on much of his agenda). Calvin was sincere; so were Zwingli and all the rest. I am vigorously disputing the patristic interpretation of the Protestant founders and Protestant polemicists ever since.<\/p><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>It\u2019s easy to refute using exclusively Protestant historians (Pelikan, Schaff, Kelly Oberman et al). The most frequent mistake is to quote certain statements of the fathers while ignoring other equally relevant ones, to get the whole picture. I see this time and again in my debates and critiques of such efforts. It happens all the time.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Here is one easy way to show the fallacies of \u201cReformed\u201d patristics. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/st-augustine-accepted-all-seven-catholic-sacraments.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Augustine believed in seven sacraments<\/a>, just as the Church did. Luther believed in two. Yet he claimed to be appealing to Augustine.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Luther and Melanchthon, however, increasingly distanced themselves from St. Augustine as they realized that he didn\u2019t agree with their novelties. See:<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/04\/early-protestants-st-augustine-ambiguity.html\" target=\"_blank\">Early Protestants &amp; St. Augustine: Ambiguity<\/a>\u00a0[1-28-04]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/04\/luthers-views-of-augustine-the-church-fathers.html\" target=\"_blank\">Luther\u2019s Views of Augustine &amp; the Church Fathers<\/a>\u00a0[July 2009]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">T<span dir=\"ltr\"><span class=\"_3l3x\">he question is whether those really are refutations.\u00a0By the way, you may want to look at to what degree what you\u2019re doing is apologetics and to what degree it is polemics. Apologetics is the defense of your own doctrine; polemics, the attempt to refute the opposing doctrine. Melanchthon was an apologist; Chemnitz a polemicist.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Well, I tend to do polemics in dialogue, when I am dealing with a position that is trying to refute my position (or, \u201ccounter-apologetics\u201d if you will). It\u2019s not much of a difference, anyway. To defend one thing necessarily is at least an opposition to other views. I think the key is to grant good faith and good intentions, as I do, and to not demonize the opponent.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>***<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>For much more material on all these topics, see my web pages on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/martin-luther-a-catholic-appraisal-index-page-for-dave-armstrong.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Martin Luther<\/a> and<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2011\/10\/lutheranism-catholic-critique-index.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> Lutheranism<\/a>; also <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/calvin-calvinism-index-page.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">John Calvin<\/a> and<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/calvin-calvinism-index-page.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> Calvinism<\/a>, as well as on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/protestantism-index-page.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">historic Protestant persecution<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/anti-catholicism-index-page.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">anti-Catholicism<\/a>. See also, in particular:<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/10\/transubstantiation-church-history-dialogue-w-lutheran.html\" target=\"_blank\">Transubstantiation &amp; Church History: Dialogue w Lutheran<\/a>\u00a0[2-12-05; abridged on 10-23-18]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/09\/dialogue-lutherans-sola-scriptura-the-church-fathers.html\" target=\"_blank\">Dialogue: Lutherans,\u00a0<em>Sola Scriptura<\/em>, &amp; the Church Fathers<\/a>\u00a0[5-29-05]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/01\/dialogue-lutheranism-catholicism-closer-fathers.html\" target=\"_blank\">Dialogue: Is Lutheranism or Catholicism Closer to the Fathers?<\/a>\u00a0(vs. Kristo Miettinen) [6-3-05]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/10\/development-of-sacrifice-of-the-mass-dialogue-w-lutheran.html\" target=\"_blank\">Development of Sacrifice of the Mass: Dialogue w Lutheran<\/a>\u00a0[9-22-05]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2011\/10\/dialogue-on-lutheranism-and-catholicism-part-two-church-fathers-and-sola-scriptura-vs-nathan-rinne.html\" target=\"_blank\">Dialogue with a Lutheran: Church Fathers &amp;\u00a0<em>Sola Scriptura<\/em><\/a>\u00a0(vs. Nathan Rinne) [10-13-11]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2011\/10\/dialogue-on-lutheranism-and-catholicism-part-four-rule-of-faith-fathers-ecclesiology-vs-nathan-rinne.html\" target=\"_blank\">Dialogue with a Lutheran: Rule of Faith \/ Fathers \/ Ecclesiology<\/a>\u00a0(vs. Nathan Rinne) [10-17-11]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/10\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-bible-sola-scriptura.html\" target=\"_blank\">Dialogue w Lutheran Pastor on Bible &amp;\u00a0<em>Sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0(including St. Irenaeus\u2019 View on the Rule of Faith)<\/a>\u00a0[10-19-18]<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div>***<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\"><strong>Unfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist<\/strong>:\u00a0<\/span>If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 \/ month \u2014 a mere 33 cents a day \u2014 would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\">my Resume<\/a>).\u00a0My work has been proven (by God\u2019s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/07\/fruit-156-reasons-why-catholic-apologetics-is-a-good-thing.html\" target=\"_blank\">from unsolicited \u201ctestimonies\u201d<\/a>).\u00a0I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and three children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>My book royalties from<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/collections\/apologetics-bestsellers-numerous-topics\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u00a0three bestsellers in the field<\/a>\u00a0(published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.\u00a0 I provide over 2600 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2009\/06\/dave-armstrongs-catholic-apologetics-bookstore-49-books-paperback-e-pub-mobi-nook-book-amazon-kindle-itunes-pdf-rock-bottom-regular-prices-67-savings-for-e-books-2.html\" target=\"_blank\">written 50 books<\/a>.\u00a0It\u2019ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will be receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers (and \u201clikes\u201d and links and shares). Thanks!<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>See my\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\">information on how to donate<\/a>\u00a0(including 100% tax-deductible donations). It\u2019s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my \u201cbusiness name\u201d there is called \u201cCatholic Used Book Service,\u201d from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago, but send to my email: apologistdave@gmail.com). Another easy way to send and receive money (with a bank account or a mobile phone) is through\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.zellepay.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Zelle<\/a>. Again, just send to my e-mail address.\u00a0May God abundantly bless you.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>(originally 3-27-12 on Facebook; edited with links added on 1-8-20)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>Martin Luther and the Wittenberg Reformers<\/em> (c. 1543), by Lucas Cranach the Younger (1515-1586).\u00a0Luther (left) with the Reformers and their protector, the\u00a0Elector of Saxony, John Frederick the Magnanimous\u00a0(1532-1547), right\u00a0Philipp Melanchthon\u00a0(1497-1560), man behind Luther is most often identified as\u00a0Georg Spalatin\u00a0(1484-1545), the man behind John Frederick\u2019s left shoulder is probably Saxon Chancellor\u00a0Gregor Br\u00fcck\u00a0(1485-1557)<\/span> [public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Lucas_Cranach_the_Younger_-_Martin_Luther_and_the_Wittenberg_Reformers_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>. . . with special emphasis on the beliefs of the Church Fathers: were they were more \u201cCatholic\u201d or \u201cProtestant\u201d? Pastor Ken Howes (Missouri Synod) is a good friend of mine, with whom I have enjoyed several cordial, constructive dialogues. I have great respect for him. This is a prime example of one of them. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":43143,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[239,415,23],"tags":[2503,3074,3071,3138,5239,488,2667,419,10101,4257,2348,694,2779,690,41,692,693,691,3072],"class_list":["post-43140","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fathers-of-the-church","category-lutheranism","category-martin-luther","tag-16th-century-germany","tag-95-theses","tag-founder-of-protestantism","tag-indulgences","tag-ken-howes","tag-luther","tag-luther-augustine","tag-lutheranism-2","tag-lutherans-augustine","tag-lutherans-church-fathers","tag-martin-luther","tag-origin-of-protestantism","tag-philip-melanchthon","tag-protestant-reformation","tag-protestant-reformers","tag-protestant-revolt","tag-protestant-revolution","tag-reformation","tag-reformers"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Dialogue w Lutheran Pastor on the Protestant Revolt<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Wide-ranging discussion on the Protestant Revolt (aka Protestant Reformation), allowing readers to understand both perspectives, &amp; to determine who followed patristic teachings.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Dialogue w Lutheran Pastor on the Protestant Revolt\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Wide-ranging discussion on the Protestant Revolt (aka Protestant Reformation), allowing readers to understand both perspectives, &amp; to determine who followed patristic teachings.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2020-01-08T17:15:21+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2020\/01\/LutherWittenbergReformers.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"434\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"768\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"19 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html\",\"name\":\"Dialogue w Lutheran Pastor on the Protestant Revolt\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2020-01-08T17:15:21+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2020-01-08T17:15:21+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"Wide-ranging discussion on the Protestant Revolt (aka Protestant Reformation), allowing readers to understand both perspectives, & to determine who followed patristic teachings.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/dialogue-w-lutheran-pastor-on-the-protestant-revolt.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Dialogue w Lutheran Pastor on the Protestant Revolt\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/\",\"name\":\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\",\"description\":\"Catholic biblical apologetics\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\",\"name\":\"Dave Armstrong\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dave Armstrong\"},\"description\":\"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43140","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43140"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43140\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43143"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43140"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43140"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43140"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}