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This is one of a series of extensive excerpts (with my occasional commentary) from The Catholic Controversy<\/em><\/a> (1596): a classic of Catholic apologetics (originally a collection of pamphlets), written by St. Francis de Sales<\/a> (1567-1622): a Doctor of the Church [see all the installments by searching \u201cSalesian Apologetics #\u201d on my blog sidebar search function]. Any comments of mine (apart from lists of related links) will be in blue<\/span>. The rest is from the online, public domain text (3rd revised edition, New York: Benziger Brothers, 1909; translated by Henry Benedict Mackey, O.S.B.).<\/p>\n What I present is an edited abridgment<\/em>, designed for modern readers: so I will dispense with the constant tedious use of ellipses (\u201c. . .\u201d). I will cite the section of the book used, so that anyone who desires it may consult the full text and\/or particular contexts, patristic references (which I omit), etc. I will follow the custom of my paperback TAN Books edition: of italicizing scriptural passages.<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n Part II, Article III: Chapter 1: <\/strong>That we Need Some Other Rule Besides the Word of God<\/em><\/p>\n Once when Absalom [2 Sam 15:2-4]<\/span> wished to form a faction against his good father [David<\/span>], he sat in the way near the gate, and said to all who went by : There is no man appointed by the king to hear thee \u2026 O that they would make me judge over the land, that all that have business might come to me, and I might do them justice<\/em>. Thus did he undermine the loyalty of the Israelites. But how many Absaloms have there been in our age, who, to seduce and distract the people from obedience to the Church, and to lead Christians into revolt, have cried up and down the ways of Germany and of France : There is no one appointed by the Lord to hear and resolve differences concerning faith and religion ; the Church has no power in this matter ! If you consider well, Christians, you will see that whoever holds this language wishes to be judge himself, though he does not openly say so, more cunning than Absalom.<\/p>\n I have seen one of the most recent books of Theodore Beza, entitled : Of the true, essential and visible marks of the true Catholic Church<\/em> ; he seems to me to aim at making himself, with his colleagues, judge of all the differences which are between us ; he says that the conclusion of all his argument is that \u201cthe true Christ is the only true and perpetual mark of the Catholic Church,\u201d \u2014 understanding by true Christ, he says, Christ as he has most perfectly declared himself from the beginning, whether in the Prophetic or Apostolic writings, in what belongs to our salvation.<\/p>\n Higher up he had admitted that there were great difficulties in the Holy Scriptures, but not in things which touch faith. In the margin he places this warning, which he has put almost everywhere in the text : \u201d The interpretation of Scripture must not be drawn elsewhere than from the Scripture itself, by comparing passages one with another, and adapting them to the analogy of the faith.\u201d And in the Epistle to the King of France<\/em> : \u201d We ask that the appeal be made to the holy canonical Scriptures, and that, if there be any doubt as to the interpretation of them, the correspondence and relation which should exist among these passages of Scripture and the articles of faith, be the judge.\u201d<\/p>\n He there receives the Fathers as of authority just as far as they should find their foundation in the Scriptures. He continues : \u201d As to the point of doctrine we cannot appeal to any irreproachable judge save the Lord himself, who has declared all his counsel concerning our salvation by the Apostles and the Prophets.\u201d He says again that \u201d his party are not such as would disavow a single Council worthy of the name, general or particular, ancient or later, (take note)\u2014\u201d provided,\u201d says he, \u201d that the touchstone, which is the word of God, be used to try it.\u201d<\/p>\n That, in one word, is what all these reformers want \u2014 to take Scripture as judge. And to this we answer Amen<\/em> : but we say that our difference is not there ; it is here, that in the disagreements we shall have over the interpretation, and which will occur at every two words, we shall need a judge. They answer that we must decide the interpretation of Scripture by collating passage with passage and the whole with the Symbol of faith. Amen, Amen<\/em>, we say : but we do not ask how we ought to interpret the Scripture, but \u2014 who shall be the judge ?<\/p>\n For after having compared passages with passages, and the whole with the Symbol of the faith, we find by this passage : Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven<\/em> (Matt, xvi.), that S. Peter has been chief minister and supreme steward in the Church of God : you say, on your side that this passage : The kings of the nations lord it over them . . . but you not so<\/em> (Luke xxii.), or this other (for they are all so weak that I know not what may be your main authority) : No one can lay another foundation<\/em>\u00a0&c. (i Cor. iii. 11), compared with the other passages and the analogy of the faith makes you detest a chief minister.<\/p>\n The two of us follow one same way in our enquiry concerning the truth in this question \u2014 namely, whether there is in the Church a Vicar General of Our Lord \u2014 and yet I have arrived at the affirmative, and you, you have ended in the negative; who now shall judge of our difference? Here lies the essential point as between you and me. I quite admit, be it said in passing, that he who shall enquire of Theodore Beza will say that you have reasoned better than I, but on what does he rely for this judgment except on what seems good to himself, according to the pre-judgment he has formed of the matter long ago ? \u2014 and he may say what he likes, for who has made him judge between you and me ?<\/p>\n Recognise, Christians, the spirit of division : your people send you to the Scriptures ; \u2014 we are there before you came into the world, and what we believe, we find there clear and plain. But, \u2014 it must be properly understood, adapting passage to passage, the whole to the Creed ; \u2014 we are at this now fifteen hundred years and more. You are mistaken, answers Luther. Who told you so ? Scripture. What Scripture ? Such and such, collated so, and fitted to the Creed. On the contrary, say I, it is you, Luther, who are mistaken : the Scripture tells me so, in such and such a passage, nicely joined and adjusted to such and such a Scripture, and to the articles of the faith.<\/p>\n I am not in doubt, as to whether we must give belief to the holy Word ; \u2014 who knows not that it is in the supreme degree of certitude ? What exercises me is the understanding of this Scripture \u2014 the consequences and conclusions drawn from it, which being different beyond number and very often contradictory on the same point, so that each one chooses his own, one here the other there \u2014 who shall make me see truth through so many vanities ? Who shall give me to see this Scripture in its native colour ? For the neck of this dove changes its appearance as often as those who look upon it change position and distance.<\/p>\n The Scripture is a most holy and infallible touchstone ; every proposition, which stands this test\u201d^ I accept as most faithful and sound. But what am I to do, when I have in my hands this proposition : the natural body of our Lord is really, substantially and actually in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar. I have it touched at every angle and on every side, by the express and purest word of God, and by the Apostles\u2019 Creed. There is no place when I do not rub it a hundred times, if you like. And the more I examine it the finer gold and purer metal do I recognise it to be made of. You say that having done the same you find base metal in it. What do you want me to do ? All these masters have handled it already, and all have come to the same decision as I, and with such assurance, that in general assemblies of the craft, they have turned out all who said differently.<\/p>\n Good heavens ! who shall resolve our doubts ? We must not speak again of the touchstone or it will be said : The wicked walk round about<\/em>\u00a0(Ps. xi. 9). We must have some one to take it up, and to test the piece himself; then he must give judgment, and we must submit, both of us, and argue no more. Otherwise each one will believe what he likes. Let us take care lest with regard to these words we be drawing the Scripture after our notions, instead of following it. If the salt hath lost its savour, with what shall it he salted<\/em> (Matt. V. 13) ? If the Scripture be the subject of our disagreement, who shall decide ?<\/p>\n Ah ! whoever says that Our Lord has placed us in the bark of his Church, at the mercy of the winds and of the tide, instead of giving us a skilful pilot perfectly at home, by nautical art, with chart and com pass, such a one says that he wishes our destruction. Let him have placed therein the most excellent compass and the most correct chart in the world, what use are these if no one knows how to gain from them some infallible rule for directing the ship ? Of what use is the best of rudders if there is no steersman to move it as the ship\u2019s course requires ? But if every one is allowed to turn it in the direction he thinks good, who sees not that we are lost ?<\/p>\n It is not the Scripture which requires a foreign light or rule, as Beza thinks we believe ; it is our glosses; our conclusions, understandings, interpretations, conjectures, additions, and other such workings of man\u2019s brain, which, being unable to be quiet, is ever busied about new inventions. Certainly we do not want a judge to decide between us and God, as he seems to infer in his Letter<\/em>. It is between a man such as Calvin, Luther, Beza, and another such as Eck, Fisher, More ; for we do not ask whether God understands the Scripture better than we do, but whether Calvin understands it better than S. Augustine or S. Cyprian.<\/p>\n S. Hilary says excellently : \u201d Heresy is in the understanding, not in the Scripture, and the fault is in the meaning, not in the words.\u201d and S. Augustine : \u201d Heresies arise simply from this, that good Scriptures are ill-understood, and what is ill-understood in them is also rashly and presumptuously given forth.\u201d It is a true Michol\u2019s game; it is to cover a statue, made expressly, with the clothes of David (I\u00a0Sam<\/span> xix.) He who looks at it thinks he has seen David, but he is deceived, David is not there. Heresy covers up, in the bed of its brain, the statue of its own opinion in the clothes of Holy Scripture. He who sees this doctrine thinks he has seen the Holy Word of God, but he is mistaken ; it is not there. The words are there, but not the meaning.<\/p>\n \u201d The Scriptures,\u201d says S. Jerome, \u201d consist not in the reading but in the understanding \u201c: that is, faith is not in the knowing the words but the sense. And it is here that I think I have thoroughly proved that we have need of another rule for our faith, besides the rule of Holy Scripture. I say as much of Traditions ; for if each one will bring forward Traditions, and we have no judge on earth to make in the last resort the difference between those which are to be received and those which are not, where, I pray you, shall we be ? We have clear examples. Calvin finds that the Apocalypse is to be received, Luther denies it ; the same with the Epistle of S. James. [Luther considered<\/em> removing both from his Bible, but in the end did not]<\/span> Who shall reform these opinions of the reformers ? Either the one or the other is ill formed, who shall put it right ? Here is a second necessity which we have of another rule besides the Word of God.<\/p>\n There is, however, a very great difference between the first rules and this one. For the first rule, which is the Word of God, is a rule infallible in itself, and most sufficient to regulate all the understandings in the world. The second is not properly a rule of itself, but only in so far as it applies the first and proposes to us the right doctrine contained in the Holy Word. In the same way the laws are said to be a rule in civil causes. The judge is not so of himself, since his judging is conditioned by the ruling of the law ; yet he is, and may well be called, a rule, because the application of the laws being subject to variety, when he has once made it we must conform to it.<\/p>\n The Holy Word then is the first law of our faith; there remains the application of this rule, which being able to receive as many forms as there are brains in the world, in spite of all the analogies of the faith, there is need further of a second rule to regulate this application. There must be doctrine and there must be some one to propose it. The doctrine is in the Holy Word, but who shall propose it ? The way in which one deduces an article of faith is this : the Word of God declares that Baptism is necessary for salvation; therefore Baptism is necessary for salvation. The 1st Proposition cannot be gainsayed, we are at variance with Calvin about the 2nd ; \u2014 who shall reconcile us ? Who shall resolve our doubt ? If he who has authority to propose can err in his proposition all has to be done over again. There must therefore be some infallible authority in whose propounding we are obliged to acquiesce. The Word of God cannot err, He who proposes it cannot err; thus shall all be perfectly assured.<\/p>\n Part II, Article III: Chapter 2 <\/strong>(first part): That the Church is an Infallible Guide for Our Faith<\/em><\/p>\n Now is it not reasonable that no private individual should attribute to himself this infallible judgment on the interpretation or explanation of the Holy Word ? \u2014 otherwise, where should we be ? Who would be willing to submit to the yoke of a private individual ? Why of one rather than of another ? Let him talk as much as he will of analogy, of enthusiasm, of the Lord, of the Spirit, \u2014 all this shall never so bind my understanding as that, if I must sail at hazard, I will not jump into the vessel of my own judgment, rather than that of another, let him talk Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Tartar, Moorish, and whatever you like.<\/p>\n If we are to run the risk of erring, who would not choose to run it rather by following his own fancy, than by slavishly following that of Calvin or Luther ? Everybody shall give liberty to his wits to run promiscuously about amongst opinions the most diverse possible ; and, indeed, he will perhaps light on truth as soon as another will. But it is impious to believe that Our Lord has not left us some supreme judge on earth to whom we can address ourselves in our difficulties, and who is so infallible in his judgments that we cannot err.<\/p>\n I maintain that this judge is no other than the Church Catholic, which can in no way err in the interpretations and conclusions she makes with regard to the Holy Scripture, nor in the decisions she gives concerning the difficulties which are found therein. For who has ever heard this doubted of ?<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n Related Reading:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n Sola Scriptura<\/em>, the Old Testament, & Ancient Jewish Practice<\/a>\u00a0[1999]<\/p>\n Catholic \u201cThree-Legged Stool\u201d: Scripture, Tradition, & Church:\u00a0Dialogue with an Anglican on the Catholic\u00a0Rule of Faith<\/a>\u00a0(vs. Jon Jacobson) [10-31-02]<\/p>\n The Freedom of the Catholic Biblical Exegete\u00a0\/ Interpreter + Bible Passages that the Church has Definitively Interpreted<\/a>\u00a0[9-14-03]<\/p>\n Sola Scriptura<\/em>: Unbiblical!: Refutation of Dr. Richard Bennett<\/a>\u00a0[9-15-03]<\/p>\n Quick Ten-Step Refutation of\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[10-10-03]<\/p>\n \u201cMoses\u2019 Seat\u201d & Jesus vs.\u00a0<\/a>Sola Scriptura<\/a>\u00a0<\/em>(vs. James White) [12-27-03]<\/p>\n Sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0and Private Judgment Are Logically Circular<\/a>\u00a0[1-28-04; slight modifications and abridgment on 9-5-17]<\/p>\n Jerusalem Council vs.\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[9-2-04]<\/p>\n Analyzing Luther \/ Protestant Traditions of Men Inevitable\u00a0<\/a>[9-29-04]<\/p>\n Catholic Rule of Faith and Binding Authority: Old Testament Analogies\u00a0<\/a>[4-9-06]<\/p>\n 1 Timothy 3:15:\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0or Visible Church Authority?<\/a>\u00a0[10-2-07]<\/p>\n How Do Catholics Approach & Interpret Holy Scripture?<\/a>\u00a0[6-17-09]<\/p>\n Were Vernacular Bibles Unknown Before Luther?<\/a>\u00a0(+ later\u00a0Facebook discussion<\/a>)\u00a0[6-15-11]<\/p>\n Reply to a Lutheran on Tradition & the Patristic Rule of Faith<\/a>\u00a0[1-10-12; additions on 2-20-18]<\/p>\n Bible: Completely Self-Authenticating, So that Anyone Could Come up with the Complete Canon without Formal Church Proclamations? (vs. Wm. Whitaker)<\/a>\u00a0[July 2012]<\/p>\n \u201cSolo\u201d\u00a0Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0vs.\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em>: Reply to Keith Mathison<\/a>\u00a0[2012]<\/p>\n Exchanges on\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0with Jerome Smith<\/a>\u00a0[2-13-14]<\/p>\n Catholic Church: Superior to the Bible?: Does the Catholic Church Claim to be \u2018Above\u2019 the Bible and Its \u201cCreator\u201d?\u00a0<\/a>[9-14-15]<\/p>\n Acts 16:4 vs.\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0& John Calvin? Is Conciliar Authority Binding on Protestants (Especially When it is Guided by St. Paul and St. Peter?)<\/a>\u00a0[11-2-15]<\/p>\n Dialogue on Authoritative Bible Interpretation in the New Testament\u00a0<\/a>(vs. Reformed Baptist Elder Jim Drickamer) [1-14-17]<\/p>\n Discussion on\u00a0Sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0and the Rule of Faith<\/a>\u00a0[10-13-17]<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\nUnfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist<\/strong>:\u00a0<\/span>If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 \/ month \u2014 a mere 33 cents a day \u2014 would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see\u00a0my Resume<\/a>).\u00a0My work has been proven (by God\u2019s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences\u00a0from unsolicited \u201ctestimonies\u201d<\/a>).\u00a0I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and two children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.<\/div>\n*<\/div>\nMy book royalties from\u00a0three bestsellers in the field<\/a>\u00a0(published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.\u00a0 I provide over 2700 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have\u00a0written 50 books<\/a>.\u00a0It\u2019ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will be receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers (and \u201clikes\u201d and links and shares). Thanks!<\/div>\n*<\/div>\nSee my\u00a0information on how to donate<\/a>\u00a0(including 100% tax-deductible donations). It\u2019s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my \u201cbusiness name\u201d there is called \u201cCatholic Used Book Service,\u201d from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago, but send to my email: apologistdave@gmail.com). Another easy way to send and receive money (with a bank account or a mobile phone) is through\u00a0Zelle<\/a>. Again, just send to my e-mail address.\u00a0May God abundantly bless you.<\/div>\n