{"id":45788,"date":"2020-03-23T10:44:57","date_gmt":"2020-03-23T14:44:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=45788"},"modified":"2020-03-23T10:44:57","modified_gmt":"2020-03-23T14:44:57","slug":"secular-psychology-vs-scriptural-bodily-mortification","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/03\/secular-psychology-vs-scriptural-bodily-mortification.html","title":{"rendered":"Secular Psychology vs. Scriptural Bodily Mortification"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

This was a comment (+ my reply) underneath my article for the National Catholic Register<\/em>:\u00a0\u201cBodily Mortification is Quite Scriptural\u201d<\/a> (2-28-19). His words will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Penance and repentance are, of course, part of Christian endeavor. But I would be interested in what psychologists at, say the University of Michigan, have to say about the concept of \u201cmortification.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Is there a \u201cslippery slope\u201d danger of unhealthy physical and psychological mortification (frequent when I was in Catholic school and we were put in self-denial competition that got out of hand, common I\u2019ve found when talking to peers).<\/span><\/p>\n

Is mortification based on a sick \u201cit hurts so good\u201d approach to self-denial [?].<\/span><\/p>\n

Are not many eating disorders traceable to making fasting and attendant self-punishment \u201cvirtuous\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

Thanks.<\/span><\/p>\n

1. We have to conform our beliefs and behavior to biblical and Catholic models, not vice versa.<\/p>\n

2. I care almost not at all for what \u201cpsychologists at the University of Michigan\u201d say about this or just about anything else (having minored in psychology and majored in sociology in college, and having seen how much in those fields\u2014not all<\/em><\/strong>\u2014is secular nonsense). Listening to the psychologists is a lot of the reason for why the Church is in the present mess that it is in.<\/p>\n

3. Any good thing can be\u2014and is\u2014distorted. It is human nature to go to extremes and to pit one thing against another. We don\u2019t throw the baby out with the bathwater.<\/p>\n

C\u2019mon, Dave. You\u2019re better than that.<\/span> [regarding my claim in #2]<\/p>\n

See: Wikipedia: \u201cDebate on the causes of clerical child abuse\u201d \/ section: \u201cImpact of psychology from previous decades\u201d:<\/p>\n

Some bishops and psychiatrists have asserted that the prevailing psychology of the times suggested that people could be cured of such behavior through counseling. [2] Thomas G. Plante of Stanford University and Santa Clara University wrote: \u201cAlmost all the cases coming to light today are cases from 30 and 40 years ago. We did not know much about paedophilia and sexual abuse in general back then. In fact, the vast majority of the research on sexual abuse of minors didn\u2019t emerge until the early 1980\u2019s. So, it appeared reasonable at the time to treat these men and then return them to their priestly duties. In hindsight, this was a tragic mistake.\u201d [3] Robert S. Bennett, the Washington attorney who headed the National Review Board\u2019s research committee, named \u201ctoo much faith in psychiatrists\u201d as one of the key problems concerning Catholic sex abuse cases. [4] About 40% of the abusive priests had received counseling before being reassigned. [5]<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n
    \n
  1. \u00a0\u201cFull text of Benedict XVI essay: \u2018The Church and the scandal of sexual abuse\u2018<\/span>\u201c<\/a>.\u00a0Catholic News Agency<\/i>. Retrieved\u00a02019-04-15<\/span><\/span>.<\/cite><\/span><\/li>\n
  2. ^<\/a><\/b><\/span>\u00a0Baars, Conrad W. (1972).\u00a0\u201cThe Role of the Church in the Causation, Treatment and Prevention of the Crisis in the Priesthood\u201d<\/a>.\u00a0The Linacre Quarterly<\/i>.\u00a039<\/b>\u00a0(1).\u00a0ISSN<\/a>\u00a00024-3639<\/a>. Retrieved\u00a02 July<\/span>\u00a02018<\/span>.<\/cite><\/span><\/li>\n
  3. ^<\/a><\/b><\/span>\u00a0Steinfels,\u00a0A People Adrift<\/i>\u00a0(2003). pp. 40\u20136<\/span><\/li>\n
  4. ^<\/a><\/b><\/span>\u00a0Plante, Thomas: A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse, San Jose Mercury News, March 24, 2002 (updated online version<\/a>)<\/span><\/li>\n
  5. ^<\/a><\/b><\/span>\u00a0Filteau, Jerry (2004).\u00a0\u201cReport says clergy sexual abuse brought \u2018smoke of Satan\u2019 into church\u201d<\/a>. Catholic News Service. Archived from\u00a0the original<\/a>\u00a0on 2004-06-26. Retrieved\u00a02008-03-10<\/span><\/span>.<\/cite><\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    ***<\/p>\n

    (originally 3-3-19 on Facebook)<\/p>\n

    Photo credit:\u00a0<\/strong>Anupam<\/a>\u00a0at<\/span>\u00a0English Wikipedia<\/a>\u00a0<\/strong>(4-8-17).\u00a0<\/strong>The image depicts a\u00a0discipline\u00a0used in the Christian practice of\u00a0mortification of the flesh. The discipline\u2019s seven cords represent the\u00a0seven deadly sins\u00a0(for which the believer using it makes penance) and the\u00a0seven virtues\u00a0(which the believer works to emulate). In this image, the seven cords are lying on top of the\u00a0Raccolta, a text which contains several\u00a0acts of reparation.<\/span> [Wikimedia Commons<\/a> \/\u00a0Creative Commons<\/a>\u00a0Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International<\/a>\u00a0license]<\/p>\n

    ***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    This was a comment (+ my reply) underneath my article for the National Catholic Register:\u00a0\u201cBodily Mortification is Quite Scriptural\u201d (2-28-19). His words will be in blue. ***** Penance and repentance are, of course, part of Christian endeavor. But I would be interested in what psychologists at, say the University of Michigan, have to say about […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":45791,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[206],"tags":[1898,7840,2105,7831,1728,7837,1895,200,711,7834,7843,710,712],"class_list":["post-45788","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saints-purgatory-penance","tag-abstinence","tag-bodily-deprivation","tag-bodily-mortification","tag-bodily-mortification-for-others","tag-fasting","tag-hair-shirts","tag-mortification","tag-penance","tag-redemptive-suffering","tag-sackcloth","tag-spiritual-sacrifice","tag-suffering","tag-suffering-with-christ"],"yoast_head":"\nSecular Psychology vs. Scriptural Bodily Mortification<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"As for bodily mortification: We have to conform our beliefs and behavior to biblical and Catholic models, not vice versa. 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Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Secular Psychology vs. Scriptural Bodily Mortification","description":"As for bodily mortification: We have to conform our beliefs and behavior to biblical and Catholic models, not vice versa. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. 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