{"id":46438,"date":"2020-04-11T09:46:35","date_gmt":"2020-04-11T13:46:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=46438"},"modified":"2020-04-11T09:46:35","modified_gmt":"2020-04-11T13:46:35","slug":"the-timeless-crucifixion-the-sacrifice-of-the-mass","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/04\/the-timeless-crucifixion-the-sacrifice-of-the-mass.html","title":{"rendered":"The Timeless Crucifixion &#038; the Sacrifice of the Mass"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-46441\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2020\/04\/Jesus31.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"493\" height=\"600\"><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"text-align: justify;\">Jesus is both God and Man. He has a human nature and a Divine Nature. The human nature could be subject to time. He was born in history, was killed on a certain date, etc.<\/span><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: justify;\">\n<p>But God, by nature, is eternal and outside of time, so in His Divine Nature, the crucifixion is timeless and ongoing. That\u2019s why we can speak of His death as both historical and ongoing, and how the Sacrifice of the Mass can occur now as a present reality. And it is why, after His resurrection and ascension, the apostle John could still refer to Him as follows:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>Revelation 5:6 <\/b>(RSV) And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Many Protestants (particularly Calvinists) appear to minimize the Divine Nature element of the crucifixion, and so they deny that Jesus could be present at the Mass because now He is up in heaven. This is almost akin to the ancient heresy of Nestorianism (that separated the two natures of Jesus too greatly; almost making Him two persons).<\/p>\n<p>Well, if we ignore the fact that He is also God as well as man, we come up with that, but for a God Who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and beyond time (and Jesus is God and has all those qualities in His Divine Nature), the miracle of the Sacrifice of the Mass is entirely plausible, possible, and biblically sanctioned. The following passage seems to suggest a sort of transcendence of time in this regard:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<div style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-weight: bold;\">1 Peter 1:18-20<\/span> You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, [19] but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. [20] He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>What God decrees or ordains or predestines, He does from all eternity (outside of time altogether). All Christians are pretty much agreed on that. Therefore, the crucifixion (an event ordained from eternity and directed towards the God-Man Who willingly sacrificed Himself), has the same characteristics. It has a timeless element, as both a decree from God (the Father) and an act of God (the Son). God died on the cross. Hence the following passage (again, appropriately, from St. Peter, the first pope), where we clearly observe the intersection of God\u2019s timeless plan and foreordination, and human history and actions:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: bold;\">Acts 2:23<\/span> this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I believe\u00a0this thought is orthodox, with nothing objectionable. But\u00a0I\u2019m sure it\u2019s not\u00a0new. Everything in Catholicism has always been thought of before by someone.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #800080;\">Related Reading<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/sacrifice-of-the-mass-hebrews-8-vs-james-white.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Sacrifice of the Mass &amp; Hebrews 8<\/a>\u00a0(vs. James White) [3-31-04]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/01\/passover-in-judaism-a-mass-that-transcends-time.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Passover in Judaism &amp; a Mass that Transcends Time (\u201cPast Events Become Present Today\u201d\/ Survey of \u201cRemember\u201d in Scripture)<\/a>\u00a0[7-7-09]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/02\/sacrifice-of-the-mass-and-nt-altars-vs-calvin-49.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Sacrifice of the Mass and NT Altars (vs. Calvin #49)<\/a>\u00a0[12-9-09]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/09\/dialogue-with-lutheran-pastor-on.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Mass: Re-Sacrifice? (vs. Lutheran Pastor Ken Howes)<\/a>\u00a0[4-2-12]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/catholic-mass-re-sacrifice-of-jesus.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Catholic Mass: \u201cRe-Sacrifice\u201d of Jesus?<\/a>\u00a0[11-19-15]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/was-the-apostle-paul-a-priest\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Was the Apostle Paul a Priest?<\/a>\u00a0[<em>National Catholic Register<\/em>, 4-2-17]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/is-jesus-re-sacrificed-at-every-mass\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Is Jesus \u201cRe-Sacrificed\u201d at Every Mass?<\/a>\u00a0[<em>National Catholic Register<\/em>, 8-19-17]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/why-is-melchizedek-so-important\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Why is Melchizedek So Important?<\/a>\u00a0[<em>National Catholic Register<\/em>, 1-15-18]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/04\/re-presentation-vs-re-sacrifice-in-the-mass-doctrinal-history.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cRe-Presentation\u201d vs. \u201cRe-Sacrifice\u201d in the Mass: Doctrinal History<\/a>\u00a0[4-4-18]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/time-transcending-mass-and-the-hebrew-remember\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Time-Transcending Mass and the Hebrew \u201cRemember\u201d<\/a>\u00a0[<em>National Catholic Register<\/em>, 8-3-18]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>(originally posted on 9-25-09)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>Christ on the Cross<\/em> (1870), by Carl Heinrich Bloch (1834-1890)<\/span> [public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Christ_at_the_Cross_-_Cristo_en_la_Cruz.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jesus is both God and Man. He has a human nature and a Divine Nature. The human nature could be subject to time. He was born in history, was killed on a certain date, etc. But God, by nature, is eternal and outside of time, so in His Divine Nature, the crucifixion is timeless and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":46441,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[58,172],"tags":[455,416,595,418,1463,420,2527,384,417,425,2531,2337,385],"class_list":["post-46438","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-eucharist-liturgy","category-trinitarianism-christology","tag-calvary","tag-catholic-mass","tag-consecration","tag-eucharistic-sacrifice","tag-eucharistic-theology","tag-golgotha","tag-passion-of-christ","tag-real-presence","tag-sacrifice-of-the-mass","tag-the-cross","tag-the-crucifixion","tag-the-mass","tag-transubstantiation"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Timeless Crucifixion &amp; 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Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/46438","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=46438"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/46438\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/46441"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=46438"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=46438"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=46438"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}