\n
(1995)<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n* * * * *<\/p>\n<\/div>\n
Martin<\/span>\u00a0[Protestant]:\u00a0It baffles me, Joe, how you Catholics can believe you\u2019re saved by works, when the Bible says \u201cwhosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life\u201d (Jn 3:16).<\/span>
\n
\n<\/span>Joe [Catholic]: We\u00a0don\u2019t<\/i>. Let me explain. First of all, belief in Christ means also to\u00a0obey<\/i>\u00a0Him. This is shown in passages where the opposite of belief is\u00a0disobedience<\/i>, such as in 1 Pet 2:7 and Jn 3:36, where \u201cbelieveth not\u201d (KJV) is often translated \u201cdoes not obey.\u201d *<\/p>\n* e.g., NASB, RSV, NEB<\/span><\/p>\nMartin: But Paul says \u201cby grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works . . .\u201d (Eph 2:8-9).<\/span><\/p>\nJoe: We Catholics agree that salvation is completely the result of God\u2019s grace. We condemned the heresy Pelagianism, which denied this, way back in in the 6th century.* However, the Bible doesn\u2019t separate the \u201cworks of faith\u201d (Gal 5:6, 1 Thess 1:3, 2 Thess 1:11),\u00a0preceded and caused by grace<\/i>, from salvation. It only condemns self-righteous \u201cworks\u201d done\u00a0apart<\/i>\u00a0from grace and faith.<\/p>\n
* 2nd Council of Orange, 529 A.D.<\/span><\/p>\nMartin: Aw, come on! You can\u2019t prove that from the Bible!<\/span><\/p>\nJoe: Quite the contrary, Martin! The Bible clearly teaches that \u201cby works a man is justified, and not by faith only\u201d (Jas 2:24; cf. 1:21-27, 2:14-26). St. Paul tells us to \u201cwork out your own salvation . . . for it is God which worketh in you . . .\u201d (Phil 2:12-13; cf. 1 Cor 3:8-9, 15:10). We will be judged after death based on our merit and works, which will determine our reward (Mt 16:27, Rom 2:5-13). But all our works derive their merit from Jesus\u2019 work on our behalf. Martin Luther introduced \u201cfaith alone,\u201d which is foreign to St. Paul and the Bible.<\/p>\n
Martin: God merely declares us righteous, even though we\u2019re still sinners, since our righteousness is like \u201cfilthy rags\u201d (Is 64:6). We can do nothing whatsoever to help save ourselves. Only Jesus\u2019 blood covering up our sin (Rom 5:9) accounts for anything in God\u2019s eyes.<\/span><\/p>\nJoe: Again, that\u2019s Luther\u2019s novel interpretation, because he denied our free will altogether. Our good works aren\u2019t worthless because they are derived, and flow from Jesus\u2019 work for us. Man didn\u2019t become a worm in God\u2019s eyes because of the Fall of Adam and Eve. This is another falsehood begun by Luther: that is, because God is absolutely holy, therefore man must be utterly evil. This is contrary to the biblical teaching that man was created in God\u2019s image (Gen 1:26-7). The Bible\u2019s whole thrust is that God makes us holy when we freely follow Him. When referring to God\u2019s removal of our sin, it uses words such as \u201ccleansed\u201d (1 Jn 1:7, 9), purged\u201d (Heb 1:3), \u201cblotted out\u201d (Acts 3:19), \u201cwash away\u201d (Acts 22:16), and \u201cnew creature\u201d (2 Cor 5:17).<\/p>\n
Martin: That\u2019s sanctification, not justification. Now you\u2019re mixing apples and oranges. Protestants strongly urge doing good works, but these cannot and do not have anything to do with salvation.<\/span><\/p>\nJoe: So works are sort of like \u201cBrownie points\u201d with God?<\/p>\n
Martin:\u00a0<\/span>[laughs]\u00a0Well, I think the Catholic view is much more like \u201cBrownie points\u201d than ours! We think that good works will get you more rewards in heaven, but they can\u2019t help you get to heaven.<\/span><\/p>\nJoe: I think St. Paul would disagree with that. He doesn\u2019t set up this false dichotomy between faith and works which Protestantism created. He says that Christians are simultaneously \u201cwashed, sanctified, and justified\u201d (1 Cor 6:11; cf. 1:30), and that the \u201cdoers of the law shall be justified\u201d (Rom 2:13). In Romans 5:18-19, he says that \u201cjustification\u201d is being \u201cmade righteous,\u201d just as through Adam\u2019s disobedience, we were \u201cmade sinners.\u201d Since sin is actual, so is righteousness. Justification is not merely an external and legal declaration, but a\u00a0real change<\/i>. Luther was wrong.<\/p>\n
Martin: But don\u2019t Catholics ever know that they\u2019ve been saved (1 Jn 5:13)? Isn\u2019t that being in constant bondage?<\/span><\/p>\nJoe: The only assurance in Scripture is that of\u00a0obedience<\/i>\u00a0(Mt 25:31-46, 7:16-27). There are many warnings against falling away from salvation (Gal 4:9, Col 1:23, 1 Tim 1:19, 4:1, Heb 3:12-14, 12:14-15, 2 Pet 2:20-21, Rev 2:4-5). For St. Paul, salvation is like a marathon (1 Cor 9:24-27). One must be disciplined and trained, lest he be disqualified and become a castaway on the Last Day. So salvation is a lifelong process, not just a matter of one-time repentance. St. Paul stresses this again and again.<\/p>\n
Martin: Well, I must admit you\u2019ve given me a lot of Scripture verses to ponder. I always thought that Catholics couldn\u2019t come up with any biblical support for their views, especially concerning salvation. If you guys don\u2019t believe in salvation by works, maybe we\u2019re not as different as it is made out, and are indeed brothers in Christ. That\u2019s really good news! Thanks for sharing this information with me.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"The Transfiguration (1594), by Lodovico Carracci\u00a0(1555-1619) [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] (1995) * * * * * Martin\u00a0[Protestant]:\u00a0It baffles me, Joe, how you Catholics can believe you\u2019re saved by works, when the Bible says \u201cwhosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life\u201d (Jn 3:16). Joe [Catholic]: We\u00a0don\u2019t. Let me explain. First of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":4774,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[50],"tags":[1482,2342,244,1471,229,1123,1120,2344,1210,2341,1118,243],"class_list":["post-4772","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-salvation-justification","tag-catholic-soteriology","tag-faith-alone","tag-grace","tag-grace-alone","tag-heaven","tag-imputed-justification","tag-infused-justification","tag-justification","tag-merit","tag-salvation","tag-sanctification","tag-soteriology-2"],"yoast_head":"\n
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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4772","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4772"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4772\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4774"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4772"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4772"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4772"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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