{"id":47794,"date":"2020-05-17T12:53:26","date_gmt":"2020-05-17T16:53:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=47794"},"modified":"2020-05-17T12:54:39","modified_gmt":"2020-05-17T16:54:39","slug":"wards-whoppers-4-which-tree-fruit-in-eden-to-eat","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-4-which-tree-fruit-in-eden-to-eat.html","title":{"rendered":"Ward\u2019s Whoppers #4: Which Tree Fruit In Eden to Eat?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

Ward Ricker<\/a>\u00a0is an atheist who (as so often) was formerly a self-described\u00a0\u00a0\u201cfundamentalist\u201d<\/span>. He likes to poke holes in the Bible and \u201cprove\u201d that it is a terrible and \u201cevil\u201d book, not inspired, hopelessly contradictory, etc. He put together a 222-page book called\u00a0Unholy Bible<\/em><\/a>\u00a0(2019): available for free as a pdf file. It contains 421 couplets of passages that he considers literally contradictory, and 256 more couplets of not technically contradictory but \u201cproblem\u201d passages (according to him). Ward wrote in his book:\u00a0\u201cI . . . am including here only what I consider to be the more firm\u00a0examples of contradictions. . . .\u00a0 I do not want to include examples that are \u2018weak\u2019 and will\u00a0be easily refuted. I have made my best judgment.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

He issued a challenge for anyone to take on his alleged contradictions. After\u00a0my first reply<\/a>, he wrote\u00a0a\u00a05 1\/2 page article<\/a>\u00a0suggesting in-depth dialogue.\u00a0I responded, explaining in depth<\/a>\u00a0why I thought dialogue between us would be unfruitful, for many reasons. He then accused me (among other things in his two replies) of\u00a0\u201chypocrisy\u201d<\/span>\u00a0that\u00a0\u201cknows no bounds.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0This is, of course, against my\u00a0discussion rules<\/a>, which forbids such rank insults, so he was promptly banned from my blog, and I replied: \u201cI was exactly right in my judgment that no dialogue was possible. It never takes long for the fangs to come out if they are there.\u201d<\/p>\n

But I had already stated: \u201cI may\u00a0still\u00a0<\/i>take on several of your proposed contradictions, just so I can have opportunity to show how very wrong atheist contentions are (which is one thing Christian apologists do).\u201d This series represents that effort. Mr. Ricker can respond on his page as he sees fit. He can still see my posts. His words will be in\u00a0blue<\/span>. To search any of this series on my blog, paste \u201cWard\u2019s Whoppers #\u201d in the search bar on the top right of my blog page. He uses the King James Version for his Bible verses. I will use RSV in my replies.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

4.<\/span>
\nGenesis 1: 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the\u00a0earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Genesis 2: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely\u00a0eat: 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou\u00a0eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: Were Adam and Eve allowed to eat from any tree in the garden of Eden?<\/span><\/p>\n

This is an example of an alleged \u201ccontradiction\u201d which simply (plainly \/ evidently) is not<\/em> one according to the rules of logic: the very sort that Ward claimed he did his best to avoid<\/em> in his book (and I assure my readers that I will surely find many<\/em> of these before I am done analyzing this book; and he will lament and regret the day he ever challenged me to do so):<\/p>\n

[W]hat would seem to be a contradiction may not necessarily be so. . . .\u00a0Sometimes what people will often call a contradiction is not truly a contradiction.<\/span> (p. 45)<\/p>\n

[M]any Bible critics (\u201catheists\u201d or otherwise) will use some pretty ridiculous arguments . . . But the fact that some people get carried away and make false claims doesn\u2019t invalidate the claims that are correct.\u00a0 And the fact is that there are a large number of clear contradictions in the so-called \u201cinerrant word of god\u201d.\u00a0 I have screened out those bogus claims that some critics make and have published my own book . . . of contradictions that I and others have found in the Bible that are clearly contradictions.<\/span> (letter to National Catholic Register<\/em> about one of my articles there; reproduced in my first reply<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Ward must not have had his logic cap on the day he decided to include the above \u201ccontradiction\u201d in his list of 421. Genesis 1:29 restricts<\/em> the sort of trees for human consumption to those bearing \u201cseed\u201d in their \u201cfruit\u201d. Here are some other major translations:<\/p>\n

NASB<\/strong>\u00a0. . . every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;<\/p>\n

NIV<\/strong> . . .\u00a0every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.<\/p>\n

NKJV<\/strong> . . .\u00a0every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.<\/p>\n

RSV<\/strong> . . . every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.<\/p>\n

NRSV<\/strong> . . .\u00a0every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Genesis 2:16 notes one exception<\/em> to the trees that may be eaten. Thus, the two passages do not contradict, since, logically, all one has to say is that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (whether envisioned as literal or metaphorical: and I favor the latter) was simply not one of the trees that bears seed in its fruit<\/em>. This isn\u2019t complicated. It only is when one approaches the Bible (as I have always said atheists do) like a butcher approaches a hog.<\/p>\n

To verify that such \u201cseedless\u201d trees, or trees that don\u2019t bear fruit at all, do indeed exist, I consulted a website on \u201cbeginner gardening\u201d<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Several trees in the Fraxinus genus are seedless, including the \u201cRaywood\u201d ash (Fraxinus angustifolia \u201cRaywood\u201d), a 35-foot-tall deciduous tree . . .\u00a0Another seedless ash, the \u201cRosehill\u201d white (F. americana \u201cRosehill\u201d) is similarly adaptable but grows to 65 feet tall. . . . The \u201cMarshall\u201d seedless green ash (F. pennsylvanica \u201cMarshall\u201d) is hardy in USDA zones 4 to 9 and grows to 50 feet tall. . . .<\/p>\n

The \u201cAutumn Gold\u201d maidenhair tree (Ginkgo biloba \u201cAutumn Gold\u201d) does not produce fruit. . . .<\/p>\n

In the Olea genus, the \u201cSwan Hill\u201d European olive (O. europaea \u201cSwan Hill\u201d) does not bear fruit. . . .<\/p>\n

The Fraser photinia (Photinia x fraseri) . . . doesn\u2019t bear fruit. . . . A cultivar of a California native, the \u201cJames Roof\u201d silktassel (Garrya elliptica \u201cJames Roof\u201d) is a seedless evergreen that grows to 25 feet tall.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

One nurseries and landscaping page<\/a> noted several seedless varieties of maple trees alone (no \u201chelicopter seeds\u201d littering your lawn):<\/p>\n

Fast growing and colorful hybrid maple varieties that are seedless include \u2018Celebration\u2019, \u2018Sienna Glen\u2019 and \u2018Firefall\u2019.\u00a0 Red Maple varieties known to be seedless include \u2018Autumn Radiance, \u2018Northwood\u2019, \u2018Sun Valley\u2019, and \u2018Autumn Spire\u2019.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The same larger web page mentions additional seedless trees in another article<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Other good hardy seedless or mostly seedless shade trees include Espresso Kentucky Coffeetree, his Majesty Corktree, Skyline, Sunburst and Northern Acclaim honeylocust.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Clearly, then, there are many such trees. This is a ridiculous and absurd example of an alleged contradiction. Even the statement of what is supposedly contradictory; by the way, echoing what the devil said in Genesis 3:1 (\u201cWere Adam and Eve allowed to eat from any<\/em> tree in the garden of Eden?\u201d) \u2014 my italics \u2013\u00a0<\/span><\/span>is immediately self-defeating, since it (polemically) presupposed that Genesis 1:29 was referring to eating any and all trees<\/em>, when in fact, the passage plainly limited<\/em> such trees to those which bore seed.<\/p>\n

Someone might retort that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil did indeed produce fruit, that Eve and then Adam both ate (Gen 3:2-3, 6, 12-13) in disobedience to God\u2019s commands (so that they were not of the sort of tree that had no fruit). But this objection would neglect to see that Genesis 1:29 refers to fruit that contains or yields seed.<\/em> Again, there are many fruits (or certain types<\/em> of individual fruits) that grow on trees which do not contain seed<\/a> in them: such as bananas, oranges, lemons, and limes<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Note also that the Bible never says that the forbidden fruit was an apple<\/em>. That is simply presupposed, and has become the non-biblical \u201clegend.\u201d The Bible merely describes it as \u201cfruit.\u201d Therefore it could have been a fruit without seed, which was precisely the sort that God said not<\/em> to eat, in Genesis 1:29. Conclusion? No contradiction at all . . .<\/p>\n

Ward \u00a0\u2014 poor fellow \u2014 miserably fails to\u00a0come off looking like the \u201csmart \/ scientific\u201d atheist over against the alleged \u201cdumb \/ ignorant \/ anti-scientific\u201d Bible and Christians (i.e., of the sort that he himself<\/em> used to be).<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0terimakasih0: lime from a lime tree. Limes usually don\u2019t have seeds<\/span> [Needpix.com<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Ward Ricker\u00a0is an atheist who (as so often) was formerly a self-described\u00a0\u00a0\u201cfundamentalist\u201d. He likes to poke holes in the Bible and \u201cprove\u201d that it is a terrible and \u201cevil\u201d book, not inspired, hopelessly contradictory, etc. He put together a 222-page book called\u00a0Unholy Bible\u00a0(2019): available for free as a pdf file. It contains 421 couplets of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":47798,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124],"tags":[1043,258,522,1472,1473,525,524,11045,2637,1633,1387,11048,3977,3978,1386,535,4068,140,11054,11051,11044],"class_list":["post-47794","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","tag-anti-theism","tag-atheism","tag-atheist-biblical-exegesis","tag-atheists-the-bible","tag-atheists-theology","tag-bible-contradictions","tag-bible-difficulties","tag-bible-bashing-atheists","tag-biblical-inspiration","tag-biblical-skeptics","tag-exegesis","tag-fruit-in-eden","tag-genesis-1","tag-genesis-2","tag-hermeneutics","tag-holy-bible","tag-inerrancy","tag-infallibility","tag-seedless-fruits","tag-seedless-trees","tag-ward-ricker"],"yoast_head":"\nWard\u2019s Whoppers #4: Which Tree Fruit In Eden to Eat?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Atheist Ward Ricker seeks to demonstrate a contradiction in Genesis 1-2 regarding which trees can be eaten & not eaten. 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Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Ward\u2019s Whoppers #4: Which Tree Fruit In Eden to Eat?","description":"Atheist Ward Ricker seeks to demonstrate a contradiction in Genesis 1-2 regarding which trees can be eaten & not eaten. 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It turns out to be a rather obvious & evident non-contradiction.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-4-which-tree-fruit-in-eden-to-eat.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-4-which-tree-fruit-in-eden-to-eat.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-4-which-tree-fruit-in-eden-to-eat.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Ward\u2019s Whoppers #4: Which Tree Fruit In Eden to Eat?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/","name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","description":"Catholic biblical apologetics","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e","name":"Dave Armstrong","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dave Armstrong"},"description":"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47794","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47794"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47794\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/47798"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47794"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47794"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47794"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}