{"id":47831,"date":"2020-05-18T13:32:57","date_gmt":"2020-05-18T17:32:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=47831"},"modified":"2020-05-18T13:32:57","modified_gmt":"2020-05-18T17:32:57","slug":"wards-whoppers-7-8-god-of-abraham-passover","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-7-8-god-of-abraham-passover.html","title":{"rendered":"Ward’s Whoppers #7-8: “God of Abraham…” \/ Passover"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

Ward Ricker<\/a>\u00a0is an atheist who (as so often) was formerly a self-described\u00a0\u00a0\u201cfundamentalist\u201d<\/span>. He likes to poke holes in the Bible and \u201cprove\u201d that it is a terrible and \u201cevil\u201d book, not inspired, hopelessly contradictory, etc. He put together a 222-page book called\u00a0Unholy Bible<\/em><\/a>\u00a0(2019): available for free as a pdf file. It contains 421 couplets of passages that he considers literally contradictory, and 256 more couplets of not technically contradictory but \u201cproblem\u201d passages (according to him). Ward wrote in his book:\u00a0\u201cI . . . am including here only what I consider to be the more firm\u00a0examples of contradictions. . . .\u00a0 I do not want to include examples that are \u2018weak\u2019 and will\u00a0be easily refuted. I have made my best judgment.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

He issued a challenge for anyone to take on his alleged contradictions. After\u00a0my first reply<\/a>, he wrote\u00a0a\u00a05 1\/2 page article<\/a>\u00a0suggesting in-depth dialogue.\u00a0I responded, explaining in depth<\/a>\u00a0why I thought dialogue between us would be unfruitful, for many reasons. He then accused me (among other things in his two replies) of\u00a0\u201chypocrisy\u201d<\/span>\u00a0that\u00a0\u201cknows no bounds.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0This is, of course, against my\u00a0discussion rules<\/a>, which forbids such rank insults, so he was promptly banned from my blog, and I replied: \u201cI was exactly right in my judgment that no dialogue was possible. It never takes long for the fangs to come out if they are there.\u201d<\/p>\n

But I had already stated: \u201cI may\u00a0still\u00a0<\/i>take on several of your proposed contradictions, just so I can have opportunity to show how very wrong atheist contentions are (which is one thing Christian apologists do).\u201d This series represents that effort. Mr. Ricker can respond on his page as he sees fit. He can still see my posts. His words will be in\u00a0blue<\/span>. To search any of this series on my blog, paste \u201cWard\u2019s Whoppers #\u201d in the search bar on the top right of my blog page. He uses the King James Version for his Bible verses. I will use RSV in my replies.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

37.<\/span>
\nExodus 3: 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the\u00a0bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy\u00a0shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the\u00a0God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face;\u00a0for he was afraid to look upon God.<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Luke 20: 37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God\u00a0of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: Who made the statement that god was the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/span><\/p>\n

I guess, for Ward, if two say the same thing (the second saying what the first told him to say), it is somehow a \u201ccontradiction.\u201d Luke tells us that Moses used this phrase, and that he did because God used it of Himself (Ex 3:6; cf. 4:5). How is this contradictory? Nine verses later we see the solution to this bogus alleged \u201ccontradiction\u201d:<\/p>\n

Exodus 3:15-16\u00a0<\/strong>God also said to Moses, \u201cSay this to the people of Israel, `The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you\u2019: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.\u00a0[16] Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, `The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, \u201cI have observed you and what has been done to you in Egypt;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

So both God and Moses said it. So did Elijah (1 Kgs 18:36), King David (1 Chr 29:18), couriers in Israel and Judah (2 Chr 30:6), Jesus (Mt 22:32; Mk 12:26), St. Peter (Acts 3:13), and St. Stephen (Acts 7:32).<\/p>\n

Now, I don\u2019t think anyone is silly enough to make an issue of the \u201cwhen\u201d in Luke 20:37. Ward could have made an issue of it, but he didn\u2019t. Both in Hebrew usage and in English it can have a very wide latitude: \u201cat that general time\u201d or (in this case) \u201cin the time following God\u2019s appearance in the burning bush\u201d or \u201cwhen Moses came down from Mt. Sinai after seeing God\u201d being three of them.<\/p>\n

41.<\/span>
\nExodus 12: 25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according\u00a0as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service. 26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall\u00a0say unto you, What mean ye by this service? 27 that ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD\u2019S Passover<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Numbers 9: 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the first month of the second year\u00a0after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying, 2\u00a0Let the children of Israel also keep the passover\u00a0at his appointed season. 3\u00a0In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed\u00a0season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it. 4 And<\/span>
\nMoses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover. 5 And they kept the passover\u00a0on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: When were the Israelites to begin observing the Passover?<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

The answer is: when they were in Egypt, at the time that Moses declared that \u201call the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die\u201d (Ex 11:5); shortly before the exodus out of Egypt. The Exodus 12 passage above is right after that. Moses states:<\/p>\n

Exodus 12:2, 6, 14<\/strong> \u201cThis month shall be for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for you. . . .\u00a0[6] and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs in the evening. . . .\u00a0[14]\u00a0\u201cThis day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you shall observe it as an ordinance for ever.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

So that was both the beginning of the observance of it, and also the beginning of the command to perpetually<\/em> observe it every year. Numbers 9 is simply Moses reiterating what he had taught (repetition being a great teaching tool). He taught it in Egypt, and then when the time of Passover came around in the second year, as they were in the wilderness, he emphasized it again<\/em>; in effect, saying, \u201chey guys, remember that Passover thing we did in Egypt? We\u2019re gonna do it every<\/em> year, even while we are in the wilderness.\u201d<\/p>\n

Ward is insinuating that Exodus 12 teaches that the holy day would be observed when they got to the promised land, which was forty years later. But that makes no sense because earlier in the chapter he implemented it while they were still in Egypt. All Exodus 12:25 is saying is that they should continue<\/em> to observe the holy day when they get to Israel or (at that time) Canaan: the promised land. Where\u2019s the beef? Does Ward wish to argue that \u201ckeep\u201d in Exodus 12:25 means \u201cinitiate\u201d \/ \u201cbegin\u201d \/ \u201ccommence\u201d or suchlike?<\/p>\n

The word for \u201ckeep\u201d in Hebrew is shamar<\/em> (Strong\u2019s word #8104<\/a>). It has a wide latitude of meaning, including \u201cguard, protect, attend to, observe, preserve, retain, protect, and reserve\u201d: many of which are perfectly harmonious with what I just explained: a continued<\/em> observance of Passover in Israel: not the beginning of it.<\/p>\n

Context is almost everything in Bible interpretation. So atheists wanna claim that Exodus 12:25 \u201cproves\u201d that a yearly observance of Passover was to begin in Israel: 40 years after the first observance of it occurred in Egypt? Okay, then what sense does it make that the previous verse<\/em> states: \u201cYou shall observe this rite as an ordinance for you and for your sons for ever\u201d?<\/p>\n

Moses taught his people this in the land of Egypt<\/em>, as God had commanded him (Ex 12:1), instructed \u201call the elders of Israel\u201d (Ex 12:21-27), and \u201cThen the people of Israel went and did so; as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so they did\u201d (Ex 12:28). And then in the next verse he is supposedly saying that it would begin<\/em> in Israel<\/em>? I don\u2019t think so. That\u2019s insane asylum exegesis.<\/p>\n

Three reputable Bible translations particularly bring out the precise meaning of \u201ckeep\u201d \/ shamar<\/em> in Exodus 12:25:<\/p>\n

Moffatt<\/strong> And when you come to the land that the Eternal will give you, as he has promised, you must keep up this worship<\/em><\/span>;<\/p>\n

New American Bible<\/strong> Thus, you must also observe this rite<\/span><\/em> when you have entered the land which the LORD will give you as he promised.<\/p>\n

Knox\u2019s Revised Vulgate<\/strong> When you reach the land which the Lord will give you in accordance with his promise, you are to keep these ceremonies alive<\/span><\/em>;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Thus collapses one of the dumbest, stupidest alleged biblical contradictions that I\u2019ve seen yet, and it\u2019s a lot that I have already dealt with, believe me. Where do these people get off thinking they are so vastly intellectually superior to us Christians, when they repeatedly show themselves unable to read simple English, in context, with a logical, common sense application (not to mention even the slightest<\/em> acquaintance with the Hebrew and Greek words involved, and Hebrew thinking)? It\u2019s embarrassing to observe. I truly pity and feel sorry for them.<\/p>\n

Only a \u201csenseless\u201d and \u201cdarkened\u201d mind (Rom 1:21) can engage in such shoddy pseudo-\u201creasoning\u201d in the service of spreading falsehoods about and tearing down God\u2019s holy and inspired revelation. I don\u2019t claim it is deliberate lying (I want to always remain as charitable as I can), but it\u2019s analysis so sullied by hostility and the irrational \u201chardening\u201d of continued undue skepticism, that the result is the same.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0The Angel of Death and the First Passover<\/em>:\u00a0Illustration from the 1897\u00a0Bible Pictures and What They Teach Us: Containing 400 Illustrations from the Old and New Testaments: With brief descriptions by Charles Foster<\/i><\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

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Ward Ricker\u00a0is an atheist who (as so often) was formerly a self-described\u00a0\u00a0\u201cfundamentalist\u201d. He likes to poke holes in the Bible and \u201cprove\u201d that it is a terrible and \u201cevil\u201d book, not inspired, hopelessly contradictory, etc. He put together a 222-page book called\u00a0Unholy Bible\u00a0(2019): available for free as a pdf file. 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Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. 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Lots of silly, funny stuff here ...","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-7-8-god-of-abraham-passover.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2020-05-18T17:32:57+00:00","og_image":[{"width":640,"height":412,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2020\/05\/PassoverAngelofDeath.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"9 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-7-8-god-of-abraham-passover.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-7-8-god-of-abraham-passover.html","name":"Ward's Whoppers #7-8: \"God of Abraham...\" \/ Passover","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website"},"datePublished":"2020-05-18T17:32:57+00:00","dateModified":"2020-05-18T17:32:57+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e"},"description":"Ward Ricker goes after the phrase \"God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob\" (who said it?!) & the time of the origin of the Passover feast (in Egypt, not in Israel). 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47831","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47831"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47831\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/47834"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47831"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47831"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47831"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}