{"id":47963,"date":"2020-05-21T10:13:19","date_gmt":"2020-05-21T14:13:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=47963"},"modified":"2020-05-21T10:13:19","modified_gmt":"2020-05-21T14:13:19","slug":"wards-whoppers-17-21-proverbs-allow-of-exceptions","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/wards-whoppers-17-21-proverbs-allow-of-exceptions.html","title":{"rendered":"Ward’s Whoppers #17-21: Proverbs Allow of Exceptions"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

Ward Ricker<\/a>\u00a0is an atheist who (as so often) was formerly a self-described\u00a0\u00a0\u201cfundamentalist\u201d<\/span>. He likes to poke holes in the Bible and \u201cprove\u201d that it is a terrible and \u201cevil\u201d book, not inspired, hopelessly contradictory, etc. He put together a 222-page book called\u00a0Unholy Bible<\/em><\/a>\u00a0(2019): available for free as a pdf file. It contains 421 couplets of passages that he considers literally contradictory, and 256 more couplets of not technically contradictory but \u201cproblem\u201d passages (according to him). Ward wrote in his book:\u00a0\u201cI . . . am including here only what I consider to be the more firm\u00a0examples of contradictions. . . .\u00a0 I do not want to include examples that are \u2018weak\u2019 and will\u00a0be easily refuted. I have made my best judgment.\u201d\u00a0<\/span>Ward also wrote to me:<\/p>\n

[M]any Bible critics (\u201catheists\u201d or otherwise) will use some pretty ridiculous arguments . . . I have screened out those bogus claims that some critics make and have published my own book . . . of contradictions that I and others have found in the Bible that are clearly contradictions.<\/span>\u00a0(letter to\u00a0National Catholic Register<\/em>\u00a0about one of my articles there; reproduced in\u00a0my first reply<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

He issued a challenge for anyone to take on his alleged contradictions. After\u00a0my first reply<\/a>, he wrote\u00a0a\u00a05 1\/2 page article<\/a>\u00a0suggesting in-depth dialogue.\u00a0I responded, explaining in depth<\/a>\u00a0why I thought dialogue between us would be unfruitful, for many reasons. He then accused me (among other things in his two replies) of\u00a0\u201chypocrisy\u201d<\/span>\u00a0that\u00a0\u201cknows no bounds.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0This is, of course, against my\u00a0discussion rules<\/a>, which forbids such rank insults, so he was promptly banned from my blog, and I replied: \u201cI was exactly right in my judgment that no dialogue was possible. It never takes long for the fangs to come out if they are there.\u201d<\/p>\n

But I had already stated: \u201cI may\u00a0still\u00a0<\/i>take on several of your proposed contradictions, just so I can have opportunity to show how very wrong atheist contentions are (which is one thing Christian apologists do).\u201d This series represents that effort. Mr. Ricker can respond on his page as he sees fit. He can still see my posts. His words will be in\u00a0blue<\/span>. To search any of this series on my blog, paste \u201cWard\u2019s Whoppers #\u201d in the search bar on the top right of my blog page. He uses the King James Version for his Bible verses. I will use RSV in my replies.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

213.<\/span>
\nProverbs 3: 13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Ecclesiastes 1: 18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: According to Solomon (the author of both of these books), does wisdom make a person happy or sad?<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

214.<\/span>
\nProverbs 26: 4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Proverbs 26: 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: Should one answer a fool \u201caccording to his folly\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

216.<\/span>
\nEcclesiastes 1: 2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Ecclesiastes 5: 18 Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to\u00a0enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him:\u00a0for it is his portion.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: Is it vanity to enjoy one\u2019s labor?<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

217.<\/span>
\nEcclesiastes 8: 12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it\u00a0shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Ecclesiastes 8: [continuing] 13 but it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which\u00a0are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: Will sinners\u2019 days be prolonged? <\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Ignorance reigns once again on the atheist front! Will it ever end? No, it won\u2019t. This is not contradictory because of the nature of proverbial literature, which is a poetic form that makes \u201csayings\u201d about life. Such sayings by nature are generalizations<\/em>; therefore, they can admit of many exceptions<\/em>, or have differential application according to situation and personal discernment. And that\u2019s why these couplets are not contradictory. Christian writer Marty Solomon ably sums up this understanding, in his article, \u201cWise Sayings that Are Generally True\u201d<\/a> (3-13-14):<\/p>\n

[T]he Proverbs are not comprehensive in their wisdom.<\/b>\u00a0What I mean by that is that there is very often an exception to the proverb. The proverb is not \u201chard and fast, black and white\u201d \u2014 but as we\u2019ve already looked at, this is true to life, anyway. The proverbs would have to be very limited in their scope. But this is exactly what the proverb is about. I teach our students to remember that proverbs are \u201cwise sayings that are generally true.\u201d . . .<\/p>\n

*<\/p>\n

I certainly do not mean to take away from the wisdom or the depth of the Proverbs; to the contrary, the wisdom of the Proverbs is incredibly, well, wise. They are profound, concise, and straightforward. And while they may not be all-encompassing for every situation at every time, their gutsy wisdom continues to stand the test of time. This is the wisdom and function of Proverbs.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But there are ways of understanding Proverbs 26:4-5 in particular that are not even logically contradictory, if we were to consider the statements \u2014 for the sake of argument \u2014 in a non-proverbial \u201cabsolute\u201d manner:<\/p>\n

Two sides of a truth. To \u201canswer a fool according to his folly\u201d is in\u00a0Proverbs 26:4\u00a0to bandy words with him, to descend to his level of coarse anger and vile abuse; in\u00a0Proverbs 26:5\u00a0it is to say the right word at the right time, to expose his unwisdom and untruth to others and to himself, not by a teaching beyond his reach, but by words that he is just able to apprehend. (Barnes\u2019 Notes on the Bible<\/em><\/a>)<\/p>\n

The former verse forbids to answer a fool foolishly: it is better to be silent than so to answer him. If he be in a frame plainly incapable of receiving a wise answer, do not answer him at all (Isaiah 36:21<\/span>). But where he needs to be convicted of folly, lest he go away with the notion of his own superior wisdom, answer him so as to confute him. Unanswered words may be deemed unanswerable: answer, then, not in folly, but to folly-the answer which his folly requires. Compare Jesus\u2019 silence and His answer, in conformity with both precepts,\u00a0Matthew 26:62-64<\/span>, before Caiaphas;\u00a0John 19:9-11<\/span>, before Pilate;\u00a0Luke 23:9<\/span>, before Herod. Regard to the difference of times and circumstances harmonizes the seeming contrariety of the two precepts. Discern the\u00a0\u201ctime to keep silence, and the time to speak\u201d<\/span>\u00a0(Ecclesiastes 3:7<\/span>). So Jesus (Matthew 21:23-27<\/span>;\u00a0Matthew 22:46<\/span>). Where it is only thine own honour that is at stake, be silent (as Moses meekly was when taunted by Aaron and Miriam,\u00a0Numbers 12:2-4<\/span>): when the glory of God or the good of thy neighbour is involved, speak. The reason added by Solomon draws the distinction, Do not answer when thy answer will make thee like the fool: answer when thy silence will give him a handle for self-conceit. (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary<\/em><\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

***<\/p>\n

219.<\/span>
\nIsaiah 40: 28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the\u00a0ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary?<\/span><\/p>\n

Vs:<\/span><\/p>\n

Exodus 31: 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven\u00a0and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isaiah 43: 24 \u2026 thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q: Does god get weary?<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

The last two verses are examples of non-literal anthropopathism<\/a>, which I explained in some detail in the previous installment<\/a>, whereas the first one is literal. Christian, biblical theology holds that God the Father is unchangeable and is a spirit: both of which preclude the possibility of fainting or getting weary.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0King Solomon<\/i>, by Simeon Solomon (1840-1905)<\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Ward Ricker\u00a0is an atheist who (as so often) was formerly a self-described\u00a0\u00a0\u201cfundamentalist\u201d. He likes to poke holes in the Bible and \u201cprove\u201d that it is a terrible and \u201cevil\u201d book, not inspired, hopelessly contradictory, etc. He put together a 222-page book called\u00a0Unholy Bible\u00a0(2019): available for free as a pdf file. It contains 421 couplets of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":47971,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124,31],"tags":[2661,1043,258,522,1472,1473,525,524,11045,2637,1633,1387,2657,1386,535,4068,140,790,11044],"class_list":["post-47963","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","category-bible-and-tradition","tag-anthropopathism","tag-anti-theism","tag-atheism","tag-atheist-biblical-exegesis","tag-atheists-the-bible","tag-atheists-theology","tag-bible-contradictions","tag-bible-difficulties","tag-bible-bashing-atheists","tag-biblical-inspiration","tag-biblical-skeptics","tag-exegesis","tag-gods-providence","tag-hermeneutics","tag-holy-bible","tag-inerrancy","tag-infallibility","tag-proverbs","tag-ward-ricker"],"yoast_head":"\nWard's Whoppers #17-21: Proverbs Allow of Exceptions<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Proverbs make poetic "sayings" about life which are generalizations; 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Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47963","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47963"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47963\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/47971"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47963"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47963"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47963"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}