{"id":47990,"date":"2020-05-22T11:26:00","date_gmt":"2020-05-22T15:26:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=47990"},"modified":"2020-05-23T15:45:50","modified_gmt":"2020-05-23T19:45:50","slug":"james-white-critiques-my-book-the-catholic-verses","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-critiques-my-book-the-catholic-verses.html","title":{"rendered":"James White Critiques My Book, &#8220;The Catholic Verses&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-48013\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2020\/05\/Catholic-Verses-550x834.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"506\" height=\"768\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">[<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/books-by-dave-armstrong-catholic_31.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">book and purchase information<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[originally from 12-29-04]<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-critiques-my-book-the-catholic-verses.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">My Introduction to the Series<\/a>\u00a0[12-29-04]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/03\/reply-to-james-white-on-binding-tradition.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Part I: Binding Tradition<\/a>\u00a0[12-30-04]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-ii-rabbit-trail-diversion.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Part II: Rabbit Trail Diversion<\/a>\u00a0[12-30-04]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-iii-ad-hominem.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Part III:\u00a0<em>Ad Hominem<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[12-31-04]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-iii-im-an-ignorant-convert.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Part IV: I\u2019m an Ignorant Convert?<\/a>\u00a0[12-31-04]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-v-deceiver-dave.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Part V: Deceiver Dave<\/a> [1-1-05]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/03\/reply-to-james-white-penance-redemptive-suffering.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Part VI: Penance\u00a0and Redemptive Suffering\u00a0<\/a>[1-2-05]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p>Contrary to his usual \u201cprinciple\u201d (if one can call it that), <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/11\/vs-james-white-9-whites-self-title-of-bishop-i-use-it.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Bishop White<\/a> has actually shown himself willing to take on some of my arguments in writing. This marks a new turning-point in our warm relationship and Christian fellowship. Prior to now, by and large, White has ignored my written arguments and has <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/armstrong-fan-club-7-fun-insults-from-james-white.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">stuck to mockery<\/a> of how long and irrelevant and substanceless my papers allegedly are, etc.<\/p>\n<p>He did do a critique of my radio appearance on <em>Catholic Answers Live<\/em>, concerning Bible and Tradition, on several of his <em>Dividing Line<\/em> webcasts. I showed how shallow that was, by delving at length (I know, \u201cha ha\u201d) into one particular example of his \u201cargumentation\u201d there (unresponded to, of course). See:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/04\/jerusalem-council-vs-sola-scriptura.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Jerusalem Council vs.\u00a0<em>Sola Scriptura<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[9-2-04].<\/p>\n<p>My own suspicion (just a speculation, mind you) is that the \u201cArmstrong writes meaningless sentences, full of sophistry and<em> non sequitur<\/em>, a million pages long\u201d excuse rhetoric may be wearing thin among some White supporters (such as those he gabs with in his chat room). Perhaps a few of them have urged White to take me on, since (from their perspective) I am doing such harm to \u201cthe gospel\u201d by my \u201cverbose\u201d rantings and ravings.<\/p>\n<p>After all, someone\u2019s gotta stop me, right, before I lead further uninformed, poor souls astray with my abominable Catholic apologetics, in defense of lies, the Antichrist, etc.? This excuse of his to avoid rational (and for the anti-Catholic, necessary) theological dispute just doesn\u2019t cut it, even by the rock-bottom, illogical, incoherent standards of discourse and evidence that characterizes the anti-Catholic mindset. So here we go.<\/p>\n<p>Even so, I expect that he will write his thing, I\u2019ll respond, and then it\u2019ll be over (i.e., for that particular sub-topic; presumably one of the Bible passages I write about). That\u2019s how it has been since 1995 with White and I, since<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/11\/catholicism-christian-vs-james-white-pt-1.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> our lengthy postal exchange<\/a> that he <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/my-four-ballyhooed-debates-w-anti-catholics-all-forfeited.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">prematurely departed<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>But hey, he has now decided to change his policy of never engaging me in writing (except to mock and ridicule and dismiss), so maybe we\u2019ll be blessed with another radical innovation in his methodology: going more than one round in a written debate. Here is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.aomin.org\/aoblog\/2004\/12\/29\/the-catholic-verses-introit\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">White\u2019s entire blog entry<\/a> (12-29-04) [his words in<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> blue<\/span>]:<\/p>\n<p>*****<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The Catholic Verses: Introit<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I sometimes feel sorry for ancient artists. Their work gets plastered all across the covers of modern books, but they never get a dime for their efforts. It\u2019s a shame. That odd observation aside, I picked up a copy of Dave Armstrong\u2019s <em>The Catholic Verses: 95 Bible Passages That Confound Protestants<\/em> (Sophia Institute Press, 2004, 235 pp.), which sports said ancient art (a di Bondone painting) on its cover. I\u2019m a Protestant, and I have yet to be confounded by Dave Armstrong, so I thought it might be interesting to invest some time in using it as a resource here on the blog.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Likewise, I was listening to a debate between a Church of Christ minister and Bill Rutland, another Roman Catholic apologist, yesterday. I was fascinated by Rutland\u2019s bold assertions about the Greek language (I\u2019ll be addressing him in time). When RC apologists like Armstrong and Rutland promote arguments in their writings and debates that are, in fact, invalid, we have a duty to respond to them, even if we have, in fact, responded to similar kinds of errors dozens of times in the past. Why? Because the folks you may be seeking to win to the gospel may have a copy of <em>The Catholic Verses<\/em> on their nightstand, or a CD of Rutland\u2019s in their car.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Now, of course, DA will respond with text files (liberally salted with URL\u2019s) that will average 10x the word count of anything I have to say. That\u2019s OK. I shall win the award for brevity and concise expression, and let him take home the bragging rights to verbosity and bandwidth usage. Thankfully, there are folks \u201cin channel\u201d who can help me find out if there is, in fact, anything at all of substance in said replies, and if there is, I will seek to note it, again for only one reason: the edification of the saints both in their confidence in the gospel and in their preparation for the task of proclamation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">So we will begin with one of the classic passages in the Catholic\/Protestant debate: 2 Thessalonians 2:15. I will start there in the next installment simply because Armstrong notes The Roman Catholic Controversy in his book, hence, his section on the verse should \u201cconfound\u201d my own exegesis of the text. Does it? We shall see.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>*****<\/p>\n<p>Yes we shall. I think we\u2019ll \u201csee\u201d quite a bit if White intends to take up this discussion in earnest. Just for fun, I will write less words than he does (which is difficult, seeing that his analyses are so filled with errors and misrepresentations \u2014 especially of my own arguments \u2014 that \u201cbrevity\u201d is quite the gargantuan task and an exercise in extreme self-control, for one literally surrounded by falsehoods to be responded to briefly). That will provide a true challenge from White, for a change (if only indirectly), which would be nice.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>[book and purchase information] *** [originally from 12-29-04] *** My Introduction to the Series\u00a0[12-29-04] Part I: Binding Tradition\u00a0[12-30-04] Part II: Rabbit Trail Diversion\u00a0[12-30-04] Part III:\u00a0Ad Hominem\u00a0[12-31-04] Part IV: I\u2019m an Ignorant Convert?\u00a0[12-31-04] Part V: Deceiver Dave [1-1-05] Part VI: Penance\u00a0and Redemptive Suffering\u00a0[1-2-05] *** Contrary to his usual \u201cprinciple\u201d (if one can call it that), Bishop [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":48013,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1068],"tags":[855,2361,341,3715,2366,652],"class_list":["post-47990","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-james-white","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholics","tag-catholic-protestant-debates","tag-james-white","tag-the-catholic-verses"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>James White Critiques My Book, &quot;The Catholic Verses&quot;<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Contrary to his usual practice, James White has actually shown himself willing to take on some of my arguments in writing, in critiquing my bestselling 2004 book, &quot;The Catholic Verses.&quot;\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" 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Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47990","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47990"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47990\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48013"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47990"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47990"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47990"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}