{"id":48028,"date":"2020-05-22T11:56:00","date_gmt":"2020-05-22T15:56:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=48028"},"modified":"2020-05-23T15:40:42","modified_gmt":"2020-05-23T19:40:42","slug":"james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-ii-rabbit-trail-diversion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-ii-rabbit-trail-diversion.html","title":{"rendered":"James White vs. “The Catholic Verses”: II: Rabbit Trail Diversion"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

[book and purchase information<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

[originally from 12-30-04]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

My Introduction to the Series<\/a>\u00a0[12-29-04]<\/p>\n

Part I: Binding Tradition<\/a>\u00a0[12-30-04]<\/p>\n

Part II: Rabbit Trail Diversion<\/a>\u00a0[12-30-04]<\/p>\n

Part III:\u00a0Ad Hominem<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[12-31-04]<\/p>\n

Part IV: I\u2019m an Ignorant Convert?<\/a> [12-31-04]<\/p>\n

Part V: Deceiver Dave<\/a> [1-1-05]<\/p>\n

Part VI: Penance\u00a0and Redemptive Suffering\u00a0<\/a>[1-2-05]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

This is my reply to White\u2019s article, \u201cThe Protestant Verses: Can Dave Armstrong Exegete This Passage?\u201d<\/a> (12-30-04). White\u2019s words will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n

I\u2019d like to ask Dave Armstrong to provide a biblically solid, textually grounded, linguistically accurate, contextually sound interpretation of Romans 4:6-8:<\/span><\/p>\n

Romans 4:6-8<\/strong> 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 \u201cBlessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD will not impute sin.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I scanned through The Catholic Verses<\/em> and couldn\u2019t find a reference to this passage (I may have missed it);<\/span><\/p>\n

Obviously, then, it has nothing to do with any argument in my book!<\/p>\n

I looked at the Scripture index to A Biblical Defense of Catholicism<\/em> and it is not listed.<\/span><\/p>\n

That being another book, it obviously has nothing to do with a critique of my present book, either . . .<\/p>\n

I tried googling Armstrong\u2019s blog and website, but got no hits on various ways of listing the passage. If Armstrong has already written something that fits this request, I will be glad to look at it upon referral. But, failing that, I would simply ask: \u201cWho is the blessed man of Romans 4:6-8 in Roman Catholic theology?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Why should I go off on White\u2019s rabbit trail, after he has systematically ignored my critiques of his material for almost ten years? If he actually tries to interact with some of mine, then he will find me much more willing to go off on tangents of his own choosing. But I won\u2019t bow to either (1) a double standard, or (2) diversion tactics to avoid dealing with the topic at hand (which he himself chose, in the present case, oddly enough).<\/p>\n

I would assume Armstrong possesses a copy of The God Who Justifies<\/em> . . .<\/span><\/p>\n

He assumes wrongly. I haven\u2019t read any of his books. The only ones I even have are those he sent me for free back in 1995 (thanks again, James!), and one (The Roman Catholic Controversy<\/em>) that I found for a quarter at a used book sale (I\u2019m willing to pay that much for anti-Catholic material; if it was a dollar, though, I would have thought twice).<\/p>\n

(though it is not referred to in his new book, which is especially interesting regarding the 24 page chapter on James 2:14-24 that Armstrong neglects in his book),<\/span><\/p>\n

Again, White strangely assumes that I always have to deal with his arguments, when my purpose was mainly to examine historic Protestant commentary, from major figures in its history (or does White claim to be that?).<\/p>\n

[Note from 3-9-17: I later (on 10-9-13) refuted that chapter in his book. See:\u00a0Reply to James White\u2019s Exegesis of James 2 in Chapter 20 of His Book,\u00a0The God Who Justifies.<\/em><\/a>\u00a0White utterly ignored it, as is his wont almost always with me. At best, he might attempt a feeble \u201cargument\u201d for a paragraph or two, but then will ignore any counter-reply. He\u2019s been doing this now with me for over 21 years]<\/p>\n

but should he not, allow me to reproduce the exegesis I offered of this section. I would be very interested in a response-in-kind from Mr. Armstrong. (Please forgive any formatting issues, the lack of italics, and of the footnotes that are in the original. Please refer to the published work for those details):<\/span><\/p>\n

See my third response previous to this one. I am curious why White is suddenly so interested in my opinions, though, since he has always argued (and still in our previous round) that they have no substance whatsoever.<\/p>\n

[deleted his entire citation, due to its being off-topic]<\/p>\n

My book is about how Protestants rationalize, special plead, avoid, obfuscate, etc. regarding biblical verses which (from our perspective) suggest some distinctive in Catholic theology. White\u2019s aim above, on the other hand, is to exegete a passage which he considers a strong proof text for Protestantism. Apples and oranges. Perhaps a future book of mine can be devoted to showing how Protestant proof texts are utterly inadequate and able to be sufficiently refuted from a Catholic point of view and dismissed (sounds like a fun project to me).<\/p>\n

But that time is not now, in the context of the ongoing critique of my book, and also given White\u2019s past utter contempt and ignoring of my arguments. I\u2019ve always refused to play this game of topic-switching (with White and everyone else). I would do that even if we had the most cordial of relationships and he had answered my past writings and challenges to him. And that is because I maintain strong principles of how to go about a good dialogue properly and in an orderly, constructive fashion.<\/p>\n

White, in fact, follows very similar principles himself. In a recent blog post (\u201cRegarding Theological Dialogues\u201d<\/a> [12-29-04]),\u00a0he stated that one must take one\u2019s time with serious theological topics, and not rush things. This is very good (nice to agree with White occasionally). Likewise, my principle and determination here is to not go off the previous topic in order to immediately treat some entirely different subject. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the worthiness and importance or value of the particular discussion itself.<\/p>\n

In fact, I show much respect towards it by maintaining this principle, because I am saying that serious topics ought to be considered one at a time, carefully and deliberately. And that can\u2019t be done by rushing off on some rabbit trail, because the opponent thinks he has a slam dunk (while double dribbling and missing all his shots in the present \u201crefutation \/ dialogue\u201d that he seeks to avoid for the moment with a diversion). So, nice try . . .<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Total words: White: 2910
\nTotal words: Armstrong: 630 (or 22% as many as White\u2019s)<\/p>\n

Note White\u2019s statement on 12-29-04<\/a>, in commencing this present discussion:\u00a0\u201cNow, of course, DA will respond with text files (liberally salted with URL\u2019s) that will average 10x the word count of anything I have to say. That\u2019s OK. I shall . . . let him take home the bragging rights to verbosity and bandwidth usage.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[book and purchase information] *** [originally from 12-30-04] *** My Introduction to the Series\u00a0[12-29-04] Part I: Binding Tradition\u00a0[12-30-04] Part II: Rabbit Trail Diversion\u00a0[12-30-04] Part III:\u00a0Ad Hominem\u00a0[12-31-04] Part IV: I\u2019m an Ignorant Convert? [12-31-04] Part V: Deceiver Dave [1-1-05] Part VI: Penance\u00a0and Redemptive Suffering\u00a0[1-2-05] *** This is my reply to White\u2019s article, \u201cThe Protestant Verses: Can […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":48013,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1068],"tags":[855,2361,341,3715,2366,652],"class_list":["post-48028","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-james-white","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholics","tag-catholic-protestant-debates","tag-james-white","tag-the-catholic-verses"],"yoast_head":"\nJames White vs. "The Catholic Verses": II: Rabbit Trail Diversion<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Bishop "Dr." [???] James White announced he would be critiquing my book, "The Catholic Verses." 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48028","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=48028"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48028\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48013"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=48028"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=48028"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=48028"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}