{"id":48067,"date":"2020-05-23T11:41:37","date_gmt":"2020-05-23T15:41:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=48067"},"modified":"2020-05-23T15:40:23","modified_gmt":"2020-05-23T19:40:23","slug":"james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-iii-ad-hominem","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/james-white-vs-the-catholic-verses-iii-ad-hominem.html","title":{"rendered":"James White vs. \u201cThe Catholic Verses\u201d: III: Ad Hominem"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

[book and purchase information<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

[originally from 12-31-04]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

My Introduction to the Series<\/a>\u00a0[12-29-04]<\/p>\n

Part I: Binding Tradition<\/a>\u00a0[12-30-04]<\/p>\n

Part II: Rabbit Trail Diversion<\/a>\u00a0[12-30-04]<\/p>\n

Part III:\u00a0Ad Hominem<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[12-31-04]<\/p>\n

Part IV: I\u2019m an Ignorant Convert?<\/a> [12-31-04]<\/p>\n

Part V: Deceiver Dave<\/a> [1-1-05]<\/p>\n

Part VI: Penance\u00a0and Redemptive Suffering\u00a0<\/a>[1-2-05]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

This is my reply to White\u2019s article, \u201cInteresting Replies\u201d<\/a> (12-30-04). He later removed it (of course without any retraction or apology), so I linked to the archived version. His words will be in blue<\/span>.\u00a0I reproduce his entire post.<\/p>\n

Interesting Replies<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

DA has replied to my first comments on his book<\/span> [see\u00a0previous installment<\/a>]. They were\u2026predictable. Armstrong says his book is not \u201cprimarily\u201d exegetical. Quite true. It is not secondarily exegetical. It is not exegetical in a tertiary manner. It simply isn\u2019t exegetical at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

It does contain some exegesis, but here\u2019s the heart of my purpose (from my Introduction):<\/p>\n

. . . only rarely do they seriously engage the biblical texts utilized by Catholics to support their positions . . . . critique of common Protestant attempts to ignore, explain away, rationalize, wish away, over-polemicize, minimize, de-emphasize, evade clear consequences of, or special plead with regard to \u201cthe Catholic Verses\u201d: 95 biblical passages . . . ultimate incoherence, inadequacy, inconsistency, or exegetical and theological implausibility of the Protestant interpretations . . . (pp. xii-xiv)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But, that\u2019s the whole point. The book pretends to \u201cconfound\u201d Protestants with biblical passages, remember? I did not choose the title, Mr. Armstrong did.<\/span><\/p>\n

Technically, I am not trying to \u201cconfound\u201d anyone. It is the Bible which gives Protestants difficulty. I\u2019m merely documenting exegetical bankruptcy, confusion, or irrationality.<\/p>\n

And the only way to do that is to provide a meaningful interpretation of those passages.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s logically distinct from critiquing Protestant exegesis. Biblical evidence for Catholicism is dealt with in my first two books.<\/p>\n

And unless Mr. Armstrong is willing to just come out and say, \u201cHey, Rome tells me what these passages mean, I can\u2019t even begin to handle the biblical text myself,\u201d then some kind of argument is going to have be offered from the text itself.<\/span><\/p>\n

That is a separate project. Catholic exegetes are no more bound to \u201cofficial\u201d interpretation of verses than Protestants. See: The Freedom of the Catholic Biblical Exegete\u00a0\/ Interpreter + Bible Passages that the Church has Definitively Interpreted<\/a>\u00a0[9-14-03].<\/p>\n

And what I\u2019m demonstrating is that when most \u201cDave Armstrong\u201d level RC apologists . . .<\/span><\/p>\n

Who else would be in this \u201clevel\u201d?<\/p>\n

\u00a0. . . quote a passage, they honestly have no idea what the passage is actually saying in its native context. They are eisegetically misusing the text, as I am documenting in regards to Armstrong. And that\u2019s the whole point of this exercise.<\/span><\/p>\n

Why respond to silly, false accusations?<\/p>\n

Armstrong also informs us that he doesn\u2019t read my books. That\u2019s OK. If he wishes to remain ignorant of the exegetical arguments presented against his position, I have no reason to encourage him to do otherwise.<\/span><\/p>\n

This book is about failed Protestant attempts to refute Catholic biblical prooftexts. White has yet to deal with those.<\/p>\n

It is just odd to me that someone would wish to put arguments into print that have already, and recently, been refuted. ignoratio elenchi<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

White\u2019s arguments are not the sum and essence of Protestant exegesis. He has quite the inflated view of his own importance.<\/p>\n

When I invited Armstrong to provide us with a meaningful, contextual examination of Romans 4:6-8, his response was classic:<\/span><\/p>\n

DA<\/span> [his citing my words]: \u201cWhy should I go off on White\u2019s rabbit trail, after he has systematically ignored my critiques of his material for almost ten years? If he actually tries to interact with some of mine, then he will find me much more willing to go off on tangents of his own choosing. But I won\u2019t bow to either (1) a double standard, or (2) diversion tactics to avoid dealing with the topic at hand (which he himself chose, in the present case, oddly enough).\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Well, OK. I guess we will be left to wonder if, in fact, Dave Armstrong can exegete that passage or not.<\/span><\/p>\n

Wonder away. It\u2019s off-topic. Period.<\/p>\n

Maybe someone else can ask and not get that kind of response.<\/span><\/p>\n

When it is the topic<\/em>, sure!<\/p>\n

But again, I just state the obvious: the author of A Biblical Defense of Catholicism<\/em> and The Catholic Verses<\/em> seems, anyway, by his initial responses, to be exceptionally unwilling to engage in exegesis of the text of Scripture. I don\u2019t know, maybe that strikes someone else as odd?<\/span><\/p>\n

White\u2019s continual dense inability (or unwillingness) to offer a logical and coherent critique is what amazes me.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Total words: White: 423
\nTotal words: Armstrong: 271 (or 64% as many as White\u2019s)
\nGrand Total thus far: White: 4270 \/ Armstrong: 1624 (or 38% as many as White\u2019s words, or White outwriting Armstrong by a 2.63 to one margin)<\/p>\n

My percentage of words over against White\u2019s, compared to his \u201caverage\u201d prediction: 0.04% (1624 actual, compared to a predicted 42,700 \/ 26 times less)<\/p>\n

Note Bishop White\u2019s statement on 12-29-04<\/a>, in commencing this present discussion:<\/p>\n

Now, of course, DA will respond with text files (liberally salted with URL\u2019s) that will average 10x the word count of anything I have to say. That\u2019s OK. I shall . . . let him take home the bragging rights to verbosity and bandwidth usage.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

***<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[book and purchase information] *** [originally from 12-31-04] *** My Introduction to the Series\u00a0[12-29-04] Part I: Binding Tradition\u00a0[12-30-04] Part II: Rabbit Trail Diversion\u00a0[12-30-04] Part III:\u00a0Ad Hominem\u00a0[12-31-04] Part IV: I\u2019m an Ignorant Convert? [12-31-04] Part V: Deceiver Dave [1-1-05] Part VI: Penance\u00a0and Redemptive Suffering\u00a0[1-2-05] *** This is my reply to White\u2019s article, \u201cInteresting Replies\u201d (12-30-04). He […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":48013,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231],"tags":[855,2361,341,3715,2366,652],"class_list":["post-48067","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholics","tag-catholic-protestant-debates","tag-james-white","tag-the-catholic-verses"],"yoast_head":"\nJames White vs. \u201cThe Catholic Verses\u201d: III: Ad Hominem<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Anti-Catholic polemicist and Master Insulter James White, in a supposed "review" of my book, "The Catholic Verses" simply lobs personal insults & irrelevant nonsense the whole time.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48067","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=48067"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48067\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48013"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=48067"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=48067"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=48067"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}