{"id":48121,"date":"2020-05-24T09:57:00","date_gmt":"2020-05-24T13:57:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=48121"},"modified":"2020-05-24T09:57:00","modified_gmt":"2020-05-24T13:57:00","slug":"the-catholic-verses-james-white-aint-got-a-clue","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/05\/the-catholic-verses-james-white-aint-got-a-clue.html","title":{"rendered":"“The Catholic Verses”: James White Ain’t Got a Clue"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

[book and purchase information<\/a>]<\/p>\n

[originally posted on 10-1-07]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

I think it would be well worth it also, at this juncture, to clarify exactly what the intention of that book was. It is not biblical commentary per se (though it heavily touches upon that due to its subject matter), but something a bit different, and, I think, unique in Catholic apologetic literature (it was initially the conception of my publisher that was presented to me).<\/p>\n

It\u2019s all made very clear in the Introduction of the book, that can be read on its info-page<\/a>.<\/p>\n

James White didn\u2019t seem to understand this in his multi-part critique \/ hit piece against the book<\/a>, that ended up in pure personal insult, so that I ceased interacting with his \u201creview\u201d at a certain point, disgusted that he couldn\u2019t stay on topic. And of course I was \u2014 you guessed it! \u2014 accused of inability and cowardice because I got tired of the mudfest.<\/p>\n

White, in fact, in a recent hit piece, er, \u201creview\u201d<\/a> of my latest book, The One-Minute Apologist<\/em><\/a>,\u00a0engaged in a gross caricature of my actual argument in one section. When corrected, he fled for the hills, as always.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s very common for anti-Catholics to go after arguments I didn\u2019t even make (just recently I have demonstrated several examples of this annoying tendency). My critics in those instances never correctly understood<\/em> the opposing (my) argument in the first place.<\/p>\n

But anyway, when that exchange was still remotely rational, I tried vainly to explain to Bishop White (his words in blue<\/span> below, from one of his articles<\/a>) what the purpose of the book actually was:<\/p>\n

And the first thing to note about Armstrong\u2019s work at this point should have a rather familiar ring to it if you have been following the Dave Hunt series: there is no meaningful exegesis offered to substantiate these grand claims by Armstrong. Examine pp. 38-40 for yourself, and you will find no discussion of grammar, lexicography, syntax, or anything else relevant to meaningful exegesis.<\/span><\/p>\n

I make no pretense of being a professional Bible scholar. My book is strictly popular apologetics. But even an amateur exegete like me can (like Balaam\u2019s ass) point out lousy, irrelevant \u201carguments\u201d from \u201cprofessional\u201d exegetes like John Calvin (a primary purpose of the book).<\/p>\n

\u00a0. . . He cites my comments from The Roman Catholic Controversy<\/em> in this section rather extensively. So, I wondered if he would attempt to respond to the exegesis of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 that I offered in the same work. I would expect that at least the substance of that section would have to be refuted for Armstrong to feel he had at all proven his case.<\/span><\/p>\n

Why does White in particular have to be refuted to prove my case? The book was mostly about historic Protestant exegesis. Most folks would think Calvin is a bit more important and influential historically than White, so I dealt with him. White dealt in depth with the issue of \u201cMoses\u2019 Seat,\u201d so I cited him in that section.<\/p>\n

. . . I dealt with Calvin\u2019s \u201cexegesis,\u201d and White has totally ignored that, so he is simply not critiquing my book thus far.<\/p>\n

Now, if the standard of being \u201cconfounded\u201d involves presenting a compelling, exegetically sound, contextually derived interpretation of a passage resulting in a clear vindication of the Roman Catholic reading . . .<\/span><\/p>\n

The book was not primarily exegetical; rather, it was designed to show the shortcomings and inadequacies of Protestant commentary when it comes to these passages. One can point out holes in an opposing position without (technically) engaging in the same thing (exegesis proper). If, for example, someone made a simple logical error in an extremely complicated theory in physics that I knew nothing whatsoever about, it would still be rational and acceptable for me to point it out. I made all this very clear in my Introduction, which can be read online. Once White figures out my goal and purpose in the book, perhaps his critiques will have some relevance and not descend into straw men and non sequiturs<\/em>. As it is, he hasn\u2019t made a single extended argument against any particular argument of mine in this section.<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

(though it is not referred to in his new book, which is especially interesting regarding the 24 page chapter on James 2:14-24 that Armstrong neglects in his book),<\/span><\/p>\n

Again, White strangely assumes that I always have to deal with his<\/em>\u00a0arguments, when my purpose was mainly to examine historic Protestant commentary, from major figures in its history (or does White claim to be that?).<\/p>\n

*<\/p>\n

. . . My book is about how Protestants rationalize, special plead, avoid, obfuscate, etc. regarding biblical verses which (from our perspective) suggest some distinctive in Catholic theology. White\u2019s aim above, on the other hand, is to exegete a passage which he considers a strong proof text for Protestantism. Apples and oranges. Perhaps a future book of mine can be devoted to showing how Protestant proof texts are utterly inadequate and able to be sufficiently refuted from a Catholic point of view and dismissed (sounds like a fun project to me). But that time is not now, in the context of the ongoing critique of my book,. . .<\/p>\n

[I did refute his atrocious, fallacy-ridden chapter on James and faith and works in a 2013 paper<\/a> (which he utterly ignored<\/em>, of course):<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

The book pretends to \u201cconfound\u201d Protestants with biblical passages, remember? I did not choose the title, Mr. Armstrong did.<\/span><\/p>\n

Technically, I am not trying to \u201cconfound\u201d anyone. It is the Bible which gives Protestants difficulty. I\u2019m merely documenting exegetical bankruptcy, confusion, or irrationality.<\/p>\n

And the only way to do that is to provide a meaningful interpretation of those passages.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s logically distinct from critiquing Protestant exegesis. Biblical evidence for Catholicism is dealt with in my first two books.<\/p>\n

\u00a0. . . Armstrong also informs us that he doesn\u2019t read my books. That\u2019s OK. If he wishes to remain ignorant of the exegetical arguments presented against his position, I have no reason to encourage him to do otherwise.<\/span><\/p>\n

This book is about failed Protestant attempts to refute Catholic biblical prooftexts. White has yet to deal with those.<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

Once again, in citing Phil. 3:10 and Rom. 8:17, Armstrong does not consider it necessary to actually handle the verses, establish context, meaning, anything exegetical.<\/span><\/p>\n

This gets back to the nature and purpose of the book; already discussed.<\/p>\n

\u00a0. . . Hence, to seriously suggest that he is \u201cconfounding\u201d Protestants on the basis of Bible passages, Dave Armstrong would have to wrestle with a presentation such as Lightfoot\u2019s, . . .<\/span><\/p>\n

White can go on all day citing commentators I didn\u2019t deal with. But my purpose was to show the bias and irrationality so often present in John Calvin\u2019s and other influential Protestant commentators (not to engage in full-fledged exegesis, for which I\u2019m not qualified).<\/p>\n

\u00a0. . . For obviously, a Protestant can read 2 Corinthians 4:10 and say, \u201cYes, I die to sin daily, not sacramentally or partially so that I remain imperfect (as in Roman theology), but as the result of the perfect standing that is mine in the righteousness of Christ the Holy Spirit works within me to conform me to the image of Christ and by so doing brings the reality of my union with Christ in His death so that His life will be ever more seen in me.\u201d How have I been \u201cconfounded\u201d in this passage?<\/span><\/p>\n

A true critique of what I was doing here would have to deal with Calvin\u2019s and Barnes\u2019 commentary. A presentation of one Protestant perspective on it and an examination of Protestant dealings with Catholic proof texts are two different things. I\u2019m doing the latter; White the former. Never the twain shall meet.<\/p>\n

We see that he follows his master Calvin in this tendency to personal attack at the expense of rational argument. Now, I want to know: how is the above to be regarded as \u201cbiblical exegesis\u201d? And if Calvin can lie about Catholics and urge readers to hate them, why is it that I can\u2019t even critique tendencies in Protestant exegetical circles? If White claims I am not doing exegesis (even when I reiterate endlessly that this was not my primary purpose), why doesn\u2019t he criticize Calvin for failing to do so when he is supposed to be doing so?!<\/p>\n

As always with Bishop White, the discussion never got anywhere because it wasn\u2019t a real discussion or dialogue in the first place (it never is with him; I have tried for 12 years to no avail). His only aim and goal is to make a fool out of me and utterly discredit my work. He didn\u2019t give a fig about what my actual purpose was in the book, or my specific arguments. He simply spread his own agenda. I proved it again and again.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not gonna sit here and constantly explain that my critic is attacking an argument that I never made and vainly protest against mythical fallacies that I supposedly committed (my arguments not being rightly understood). That gets old yesterday, and I have no patience for it at all anymore.<\/p>\n

As I often say, no one would be more pleasantly surprised than myself, to see something different for a change from an anti-Catholic who thinks that Catholics aren\u2019t Christians. With that degree of astonishingly irrational baggage going in, one learns to set the bar of expectations pretty low.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[book and purchase information] [originally posted on 10-1-07] *** I think it would be well worth it also, at this juncture, to clarify exactly what the intention of that book was. It is not biblical commentary per se (though it heavily touches upon that due to its subject matter), but something a bit different, and, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":48013,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1068],"tags":[855,2361,341,3715,2366,652],"class_list":["post-48121","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-james-white","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholics","tag-catholic-protestant-debates","tag-james-white","tag-the-catholic-verses"],"yoast_head":"\n"The Catholic Verses": James White Ain't Got a Clue<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"My book was not exegetical per se. 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Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"\"The Catholic Verses\": James White Ain't Got a Clue","description":"My book was not exegetical per se. It was designed to demonstrate the inadequacies of Protestant commentary re certain \"Catholic\" passages. 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Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48121","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=48121"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48121\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48013"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=48121"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=48121"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=48121"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}