{"id":48544,"date":"2020-06-04T11:35:02","date_gmt":"2020-06-04T15:35:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=48544"},"modified":"2020-06-04T11:35:02","modified_gmt":"2020-06-04T15:35:02","slug":"george-floyd-atheist-but-whats-the-solution","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/06\/george-floyd-atheist-but-whats-the-solution.html","title":{"rendered":"George Floyd: Atheist & Christian Agree; but What’s the Solution?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Christianity Asserts that Evil Begins in Corrupt Human Hearts, & Can Only be Vanquished by God\u2019s Grace & Spiritual Revival<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Jon Curry<\/a> is an atheist friend of mine. I not only know him online, but also in person. I\u2019ve been to his atheist discussion groups (and have been the only Christian \u2014 or theist \u2014 present). Almost always we clash on any broadly \u201cpolitical\u201d discussion (and maddeningly so on both sides). Despite that, he\u2019s still free and welcome to comment on my Facebook page, and I respect the fact that he does so in an overwhelmingly Christian and politically conservative environment (he being very far left politically). But I think he went deeper than politics with his latest comment, and I agree on his analysis of the wickedness of the tragic, outrageous George Floyd murder by a policeman. But then I offer an ultimately spiritual<\/em> solution to this huge and troubling societal (and \u201chuman being\u201d) problem. His words will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

The charges against Chauvin now are second-degree murder without intent, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. The other three officers who stood by are being charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.<\/p>\n

Yes, I\u2019m in favor of this development. I have yet to find anyone<\/em> <\/strong>of any political persuasion who defends this action (which I say is murder) against George Floyd. If anyone finds a case of agreement from anyone who is not a KKK wacko (where such a view would be expected), please let me know.<\/p>\n

Like you say, everyone is in favor of charging these guys; you\u2019d have to be some kind of psycho otherwise. This is just a murder caught on video.<\/span><\/p>\n

The larger question I think is what is up with this system we have that leads these guys to kill someone\u00a0so openly and without any apparent concern for consequences? And every other police officer present enabling it. . . . Is it a matter of a few bad apples or a systemic problem? This supports the view that the problem is more systemic.<\/span><\/p>\n

I get that there are good people that are police officers, they try to do the right thing, get their more violent companions to ease up. The videos we see are going to be the worst examples. But it also appears that the number going along with the abuse is high, and this is an issue that has to be dealt with, not dismissed as a few bad apples. The treatment of protesters is showing this as well. Again, we\u2019re seeing the worst examples, but there are a lot. There are also good examples, like in Flint, that show what is possible where police see themselves more as members of the community as opposed to an occupying force.<\/span><\/p>\n

So what I\u2019d like to see from my more conservative friends is some empathy for the plight of black people and underprivileged people who live their lives in fear. It is not a myth that only exists in their heads, it is a real problem that we all need to work to fix. So people who get more worked up about looting and broken windows, broken windows can be fixed, the damage done physically to human beings is often not fixable and needs to be more the focus.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah, I am not discussing politics anymore, but this goes much deeper than that, and I agree about as much as I ever have with any comment of yours (stop the presses!). You have hit on a deeper level with this comment and gone beyond mere political talking-points.<\/p>\n

I agree that it\u2019s extremely troubling. Just one bad apple can be comprehended, but three others watching and enabling it is beyond insane; pure evil. And they included a black man and an Asian-American and Hispanic-American, so it wasn\u2019t just the good ol\u2019 boy white man\u2019s network. It\u2019s like it represented the increasing diversity of America. And this wasn\u2019t even the South. It was liberal Minnesota: the land of Hubert Humphrey and Walter Mondale.
\n*
\nI think we more or less have to conclude that there is truly significant racism and corruption among police: even if it is a relatively small minority. It\u2019s enough for these incidents to keep happening, and enough to conclude that it is absolutely necessary to reform it now<\/strong><\/em>.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s no different from sexual abuse among Catholic priests and indeed (as we are sadly finding out) in every other sector of society. There are networks that try to cover up these hideous sins. And there is tremendous corruption in government: even you and I agree that what was done with the FBI was against the rule of law and should have never occurred.<\/p>\n

I would say (here\u2019s where we start to differ) that it comes down to the ubiquity of sin in the human heart. Jeremiah 17:9 (RSV) states:\u00a0\u201cThe heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt;\u00a0who can understand it?\u201d<\/p>\n

As an atheist, you have to look at conditioning and systems, and suchlike (blame it on capitalism or materialism or the racism that continues to reflect the old slave system and more recent segregation and Jim Crow laws). I think those things explain a lot<\/em>. \u201cWe are what we eat.\u201d My major was sociology. I get that and accept it as a big cause.<\/p>\n

But something deeper is going on, that ultimately accounts for and brings about pure evil, as we see here, and in horrors like Nazi Germany, ISIS, and the abortion genocide. And the Christian says it is the sinfulness that resides within<\/em> us, that is only countered by an active grace and discipleship and profound love: following Jesus Christ, the sinless God-Man. He is the ultimate answer.<\/p>\n

The human heart (of every single one of us) has to be transformed. That\u2019s why the biggest progress against racism was the result of the non-violent protests of the Christian pastor Martin Luther King. Malcolm X was also influential because he was a religious man of great personal integrity, and started to see through the racism and corruption of his own sub-group of Islam (with its leader sleeping around). I read his Autobiography<\/em>. I have great respect for him.<\/p>\n

We can pass laws and do \u201creform\u201d and weed out murderers and other corrupt people from our institutions (just like so many \u201ccorrupt cop\u201d movies and shows get rid of them and all live happily ever after), but the only lasting change will come from spiritual revival. We desperately need it.<\/p>\n

So you and I largely agree on the nature of the current problem. How to ultimately solve<\/em> it is where we differ. But I think you can agree that religious \/ social activist people like Rev. King and Malcolm X were a big part of the solution. Insofar as religion plays that role, we need more of it to transform our sick society.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0Phil Roeder<\/a>\u00a0(5-29-20).\u00a0Well over a thousand people gathered in downtown Des Moines, Iowa, joining other protests around the country demanding justice over the murder of George Floyd by a police officer in Minneapolis<\/span> [Wikimedia Commons<\/a> \/\u00a0Creative Commons<\/a>\u00a0Attribution 2.0 Generic<\/a>\u00a0license]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

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Christianity Asserts that Evil Begins in Corrupt Human Hearts, & Can Only be Vanquished by God\u2019s Grace & Spiritual Revival Jon Curry is an atheist friend of mine. I not only know him online, but also in person. I\u2019ve been to his atheist discussion groups (and have been the only Christian \u2014 or theist \u2014 […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":48547,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[289],"tags":[11207,1575,5160,11201,750,7498,5151,1971,2453,4817,177,6573,6564,11192,5483,6561,11198,4828,1576,11210,1970,11195,11213,176,11216,11204],"class_list":["post-48544","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-political-ethical-moral-issues","tag-antifa","tag-bigotry","tag-black-lives-matter","tag-black-man","tag-civil-rights","tag-civil-rights-movement","tag-colorblind-society","tag-discrimination","tag-equal-rights","tag-equality","tag-evil","tag-fanaticism","tag-freedom","tag-george-floyd","tag-hatred","tag-liberty","tag-malcolm-x","tag-martin-luther-king","tag-prejudice","tag-protests","tag-racism","tag-racist-cops","tag-riots","tag-sin","tag-societal-turmoil","tag-violence-against-black-men"],"yoast_head":"\nGeorge Floyd: Atheist & Christian Agree; but What's the Solution? 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Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"George Floyd: Atheist & Christian Agree; but What's the Solution? George Floyd: Atheist & Christian Agree; but What's the Solution?","description":"Christianity Asserts that Evil Begins in Corrupt Human Hearts, & Can Only be Vanquished by God's Grace & Spiritual Revival Jon Curry is an atheist I agree with an atheist friend on his analysis of the wickedness of the tragic George Floyd murder by a policeman. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48544","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=48544"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48544\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48547"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=48544"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=48544"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=48544"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}