{"id":48710,"date":"2020-06-10T13:13:15","date_gmt":"2020-06-10T17:13:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=48710"},"modified":"2020-06-10T13:14:57","modified_gmt":"2020-06-10T17:14:57","slug":"james-white-all-of-romes-apologists-are-simply-dishonest","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/06\/james-white-all-of-romes-apologists-are-simply-dishonest.html","title":{"rendered":"James White: “All of Rome’s apologists are simply dishonest”"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

[originally posted in September 2010]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Bishop<\/a>\u00a0\u201cDr.\u201d [???] James White (he of the bogus \u201cdoctorate degree\u201d<\/a>) reiterates the venerable anti-Catholic tradition of sweeping, judgmental claims about Catholic apologists\u2019 dishonesty:<\/p>\n

But I think the Bodily Assumption is the single clearest illustration of the fact that all of Rome\u2019s apologists are simply dishonest (or deceived, or both) when they proclaim fealty to \u201cScripture and Tradition.\u201d<\/span> (9-11-10<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This is a statement worthy even of the notorious arrogance and derision of White\u2019s good buddy, David T. King<\/strong>, who has stated:<\/p>\n

I already have a very low view of the integrity of non-Protestants in general, . . . most of you are too dishonest to admit what you really think.<\/span> (on Eric Svendsen\u2019s Areopagus<\/em> board, 4-15-03)<\/p>\n

It is a typical Roman Catholic tactic to misrepresent one\u2019s opponent purposely in order to \u201cname and claim\u201d a victory.<\/span> (on Eric Svendsen\u2019s Areopagus<\/em> board, 6-5-03; see my old web page<\/a> that documented it)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Not to be outdone is their mutual friend and comrade-in-arms, Eric Svendsen<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

RC apologists will do or say just about anything\u2013true or not\u2013to advance their cause. They engage in the strategy of deception regularly.<\/span> (on his Areopagus<\/em> board: 4-27-03)<\/p>\n

[W]e have experience with those who use the \u201cstrategy of deceit\u201d to mislead people down the road to a false gospel.<\/span> (on his Areopagus<\/em> board: 6-4-03)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

April and June 2003 were obviously banner months for the anti-Catholic endeavor, over on Svendsen\u2019s board! A candid frankness was displayed that was, in its own weird and perverse way, quite refreshing. I had known they felt this way for years, but it was at least good to see them come right out and say it. Openness is a good thing. They\u2019re honest about their accusations of massive dishonesty in theological opponents.<\/p>\n

Steve Hays<\/strong> [deceased as of June 2020; please pray for his soul] is also a member of this venerable club:<\/p>\n

I see a great deal of deception and self-deception in Catholicism. They give their alleged reasons for being Catholic, as well as their alleged reasons for not being Protestant. When we answer them on their own grounds, they become evasive and repetitive. That\u2019s not the mark of someone who values the truth.<\/span> (8 August 2008<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This is one of those dishonest tactics that Catholic epologists like [Bryan] Cross resort to.<\/span> (10 August 2008<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And so is The Anonymous One (TAO), aka \u201cTurretinfan\u201d<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

However, I did have to smile a bit when I noticed that the entire forum<\/span> [Patrick Madrid\u2019s Speak your Mind<\/em> forum] has now been encased in a protective shell of registration, lest outsiders shine any more light on the deception routinely attempted there.<\/span>\u00a0(18 May 2009<\/a>, on White\u2019s blog)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But getting back to Bishop White: this isn\u2019t the first time he has spoken of massive Catholic \u201cdishonesty\u201d<\/span> or \u201cdeception\u201d<\/span>:<\/p>\n

Rome will only get you the consolation prize of deception now, and destruction at the final judgment.<\/span> (19 November 2003<\/a>)<\/p>\n

*<\/p>\n

[I]nstead of blaming ignorance for his very shallow misrepresentations of non-Catholic theology and exegesis, we must now assert knowing deception.<\/span> (12-31-04<\/a>; directed towards Yours Truly)<\/p>\n

I am not a Roman Catholic because Roman Catholicism is a false religion. It is headed by an imposter, a man who claims to be something he is not. . . . Roman Catholicism is a man-made perversion of the truth.<\/span><\/p>\n

. . . There is a divine gospel whereby God glorifies Himself in the salvation of His elect, and anything less than that isn\u2019t the gospel at all. It\u2019s a sham, a fraud, a deception. Now that kind of thinking doesn\u2019t sit well in a post-modern world, to be sure, where it smacks of \u201cepistemological arrogance.\u201d But to say otherwise is to insist that God has not spoken with clarity and that the Lord has not preserved the gospel for His people. . . .<\/span><\/p>\n

So if you really believe the gospel, you really believe the negation of the gospel is evil. Just as the person who loves God and holiness will hate sin, so too the person who really believes the gospel will find its negation, its corruption, its perversion, an object of hatred.<\/span> (12 April 2009)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And he wouldn\u2019t be himself<\/em> if he didn\u2019t display a double standard. He can sling accusations of dishonesty (being the POSSESSOR OF TRVTH), yet at the same time, condemn it as an unworthy, silly tactic when it is done to him or his fellow Protestants (a thing I condemn along with him):<\/p>\n

As I read the e-mail, written by someone only identified as \u201cCharles,\u201d I tried my best to \u201chear\u201d it, despite where it was posted, by whom, and how it was lauded by the former Calvinist Baptist. But I could not get past the constant accusations of dishonesty and conspiracy on the part of all \u201cCalvinists.\u201d<\/span> (8 June 2005<\/a>)<\/p>\n

If the book is filled with deception and misrepresentation, why not document it? Easy: what these men really are saying is \u201cHe disagrees with us, therefore, he must be deceptive.\u201d Now, of course, that is circular argumentation and irrational, but it is the heart of their apologetic.<\/span> (6 August 2005<\/a>)<\/p>\n

99% of the time these people are using the term \u201cdishonesty\u201d and \u201clack of scholarship\u201d to refer to areas of simple disagreement. It is not that I am dishonestly misrepresenting Rome\u2019s position, it is that they think I\u2019m wrong regarding my response, nothing more. The few times people have called in to back up their statements, we have seen this illustrated, and it would be helpful to illustrate it yet again. The chances are not good for a simple reason: accusations of dishonesty are simply false.<\/span> (14 July 2007<\/a>)<\/p>\n

Protestants, in particular, are liars, as we will see, even if they are holding a sincerely held (and perfectly defensible) viewpoint. It\u2019s still a lie, and they are liars. . . . refusing to recognize the necessary difference between \u201cI disagree with your position\u201d and \u201cyou are lying.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0 (11 July 2008<\/a>)<\/p>\n

But as I have read the argument (which, ironically, is coming from someone in the law school, who should know better), they disagree with how I am reading Caner\u2019s meaning (based upon our previous interactions) and are equating disagreement on that level with dishonesty and misrepresentation. This kind of muddled thinking is commonplace in our society today. We think with our hearts and emotions, not with our heads.<\/span> (15 October 2009<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong> Angel Contreras: caricature of James White; posted on the latter\u2019s<\/span> Twitter page: 8-6-15<\/a>.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[originally posted in September 2010] *** Bishop\u00a0\u201cDr.\u201d [???] James White (he of the bogus \u201cdoctorate degree\u201d) reiterates the venerable anti-Catholic tradition of sweeping, judgmental claims about Catholic apologists\u2019 dishonesty: But I think the Bodily Assumption is the single clearest illustration of the fact that all of Rome\u2019s apologists are simply dishonest (or deceived, or both) […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":48712,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1068],"tags":[97,855,11240,2361,1031,11242,5537,2382,339,2366,337,2119,5636],"class_list":["post-48710","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-james-white","tag-ad-hominem","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholic-arguments","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-david-t-king","tag-deception","tag-dishonesty","tag-eric-svendsen","tag-insults","tag-james-white","tag-personal-attacks","tag-steve-hays","tag-turretinfan"],"yoast_head":"\nJames White: "All of Rome's apologists are simply dishonest" James White: "All of Rome's apologists are simply dishonest"<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"*** Bishop\u00a0"Dr." James White (he of the bogus "doctorate degree") reiterates the venerable anti-Catholic tradition of sweeping, judgmental claims about James White sez that Catholic apologists who honestly disagree with Protestantism are "dishonest" or "deceptive." 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48710","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=48710"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/48710\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48712"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=48710"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=48710"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=48710"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}