(12-15-08)<\/div>\n
\nProtestant writer C. Michael Patton observed (without\u00a0himself<\/span>\u00a0believing this):<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n[H]istoric Protestantism has often charged the Catholic church with idolatry, believing that they have turned God into an idol of bread and wine, worshiping the elements without, indeed, contrary to, a scriptural basis.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n. . . which is an utterly wrongheaded criticism, as I have often argued, since idolatry, by definition, is a\u00a0matter of the heart and interior disposition<\/span>. No minimally informed Catholic has\u00a0ever<\/span>\u00a0worshiped mere bread and wine (just as none have been dumb and absurd enough to actually venerate plaster in the form of a statue of a saint). We are worshiping\u00a0Jesus Christ<\/span>\u00a0present in what was formerly bread and wine.<\/span><\/p>\nObviously, other Christians may deny the\u00a0fact<\/span>\u00a0of what we believe in faith to be taking place, but whatever the Mass is, it is\u00a0not<\/span>\u00a0idolatry, which is worship of what is not God and raising something other than God to His sole place of supreme exaltation.<\/span><\/p>\nClearly, Catholics aren\u2019t doing that, which is simple to see in the literal meaning of the word\u00a0transubstantiation<\/span>: \u201cchange of substance.\u201d Think about it for a moment in this light: how does the following \u201clogic\u201d of our anti-Catholic critics make any sense?:<\/span><\/p>\n1) Catholics believe in transubstantiation.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n2) Transubstantiation means, literally, \u201cchange of substance.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n3) In this instance the substance change involves bread and wine being\u00a0transformed<\/span>\u00a0into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n4) Therefore, Catholics believe that bread and wine are\u00a0no longer present<\/span>; only the Body and Blood of Christ.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n5) And the adoration of the host and eucharistic worship takes place\u00a0after<\/span>\u00a0the consecration and change of substance in the Mass.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n6) Nevertheless, we will accuse Catholics of worshiping bread and wine instead of Jesus Christ, which is gross idolatry, and no part of legitimate Christianity.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\nObviously, #6 doesn\u2019t follow, based on the premises of #2-#5. So how is it we get accused of idolatry, when the very\u00a0word<\/span>\u00a0that describes the practice being so critiqued proves that it is not taking place at all? If anything, Lutheranism would be more open to this accusation, on the grounds that they might conceivably confuse the elements with Jesus (I would not make the charge\u00a0myself<\/span>, I hasten to add, but I am making an observation based on anti-Catholic premises).<\/span><\/p>\nBut that is not true in our case, by the fundamental definition of a complete change taking place, as we believe. So again, one can disagree with what Catholics (with virtually unanimous patristic support) believe in faith to be occurring, but it is ludicrous \u2014 utterly illogical and empty-headed \u2014 to accuse us of idolatry in the Mass.<\/span><\/p>\n* * * * *<\/p>\n
I had the following fun exchange with fellow Catholic Stephen Korsman (his words in blue<\/span>, too) in the combox:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\nI\u2019ll play devil\u2019s advocate. If Protestants are right, then the bread and wine are nothing more than bread and wine. In that case, since we\u2019re worshipping what we think is Jesus but is not Jesus, is that not idolatry?<\/span><\/p>\nIt\u2019s still not for us<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0(and it has to be \u201cfor us\u201d in the case of idolatry, because it flows from the heart<\/em>: what we ourselves<\/em> believe), and if in our hearts we believe it is Jesus and not bread and wine, then we are worshiping Him<\/em>, regardless of whether there was in fact a change or not. We would still be worshiping Jesus in any case. If it\u2019s still bread and wine, we are worshiping what we believe to be Jesus.<\/span>
We\u2019re simply not worshiping bread and wine. No Catholic who knows anything has ever done that. It would be ludicrous and gross idolatry. No Catholic teacher in history has ever said that Catholics worship bread and wine. It\u2019s ridiculous to even have to note this (to critics).<\/span>
Likewise, Protestants who don\u2019t in fact possess the Real Presence (like Lutherans) are still pious if serious about Holy Communion and not engaging in idolatry, even though what is taking place is not<\/em> what they believe<\/em> takes place.<\/span><\/p>\nOkay. I see your point. But look at it this way, and assuming the Protestant view is correct:<\/span><\/p>\nCatholic thinks a statue of a cow is Jesus.
\nCatholic worships this statue of a cow, thinking it\u2019s Jesus.<\/span>
\nIs the Catholic committing idolatry?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\nCatholic thinks the bread and wine is no longer bread and wine, but the Body and Blood of Jesus.<\/span>
\nCatholic worships this item, thinking it\u2019s Jesus.<\/span>
\nIs the Catholic committing idolatry?<\/span><\/p>\nI don\u2019t see how the answers can be different.\u00a0At least, I don\u2019t see how the answers can be different assuming Catholics are wrong about the Eucharist.<\/span><\/p>\nIf they think the cow has become transformed<\/em> into Jesus by \u201ctransubcowtiation\u201d then it wouldn\u2019t<\/em> be idolatry, by analogy. If they think it has not<\/em> undergone the miraculous change, then it would<\/em> be, since a cow is obviously not God in the flesh in any way, shape or form.<\/span><\/p>\nIf you (or anyone) want to make that comparison, then you have to include the essential aspect of \u201cchange\u201d (\u201ctrans\u201d) with it, and that\u2019s where the attempted disanology fails.<\/span><\/p>\nIn the case of the golden calf, on the other hand, the ancient Hebrews appear to have literally believed that it<\/em> <\/strong>was God, without any such miraculous change, and that was plainly idolatry, as the Bible makes clear.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Here\u2019s some real idolatry: The Adoration of the Golden Calf (1633), by Nicolas Poussin (1594-1665) [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] (12-15-08) Protestant writer C. Michael Patton observed (without\u00a0himself\u00a0believing this): [H]istoric Protestantism has often charged the Catholic church with idolatry, believing that they have turned God into an idol of bread and wine, worshiping the elements […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":5048,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231,58],"tags":[416,190,417,385],"class_list":["post-5047","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","category-eucharist-liturgy","tag-catholic-mass","tag-idolatry","tag-sacrifice-of-the-mass","tag-transubstantiation"],"yoast_head":"\n
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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The Catholic Mass: Why it Can't Possibly be Idolatrous","description":"Idolatry, by definition, is a matter of the heart and interior disposition. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5047","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5047"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5047\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5048"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5047"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5047"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5047"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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