{"id":50751,"date":"2020-08-27T13:00:31","date_gmt":"2020-08-27T17:00:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=50751"},"modified":"2020-08-27T13:32:44","modified_gmt":"2020-08-27T17:32:44","slug":"dialogue-on-the-extent-of-police-brutality","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/08\/dialogue-on-the-extent-of-police-brutality.html","title":{"rendered":"Dialogue on the Extent of Police Brutality"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-50754\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2020\/08\/BlackLivesMatter.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"322\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">This was an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\/posts\/3605230966178529?comment_id=3605872806114345&amp;__cft__%5B0%5D=AZXvg09cax5Z4U0ZJMarU5ZC_KPdovet8ucBhUYk156zog8d8CNH7n0hYoWE7oiPluLs2cbL4LmbcYW79w7p6KxgZI0UCnH3oP5cDN4zhnwhctXLbjo1raCD6J3iWYqivUE&amp;__tn__=R%5D-R\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">exchange on Facebook<\/a> with\u00a0<a class=\"oajrlxb2 g5ia77u1 qu0x051f esr5mh6w e9989ue4 r7d6kgcz rq0escxv nhd2j8a9 nc684nl6 p7hjln8o kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x jb3vyjys rz4wbd8a qt6c0cv9 a8nywdso i1ao9s8h esuyzwwr f1sip0of lzcic4wl gmql0nx0 gpro0wi8 decorated-link\" tabindex=\"0\" role=\"link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/bryson.townsend?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDozNjA1MjMwOTY2MTc4NTI5XzM2MDU4NzI4MDYxMTQzNDU%3D&amp;__cft__%5B0%5D=AZXvg09cax5Z4U0ZJMarU5ZC_KPdovet8ucBhUYk156zog8d8CNH7n0hYoWE7oiPluLs2cbL4LmbcYW79w7p6KxgZI0UCnH3oP5cDN4zhnwhctXLbjo1raCD6J3iWYqivUE&amp;__tn__=R%5D-R\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"pq6dq46d\"><span class=\"oi732d6d ik7dh3pa d2edcug0 hpfvmrgz qv66sw1b c1et5uql a8c37x1j hop8lmos enqfppq2 e9vueds3 j5wam9gi lrazzd5p oo9gr5id\" dir=\"auto\">Bryson Townsend<\/span><\/span><\/a><span class=\"pq6dq46d\"><span class=\"oi732d6d ik7dh3pa d2edcug0 hpfvmrgz qv66sw1b c1et5uql a8c37x1j hop8lmos enqfppq2 e9vueds3 j5wam9gi lrazzd5p oo9gr5id\" dir=\"auto\">, whose words will be in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Where are your posts about police brutality?<\/span><\/p>\n<div class=\"ecm0bbzt e5nlhep0 a8c37x1j\">\n<div class=\"kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">Here:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/06\/george-floyd-atheist-but-whats-the-solution.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">George Floyd: Atheist &amp; Christian Agree; but What\u2019s the\u00a0<em>Solution<\/em>? (Christianity Asserts that Evil Begins in Corrupt Human Hearts, &amp; Can Only be Vanquished by God\u2019s Grace &amp;\u00a0<em>Spiritual Revival<\/em>)<\/a>\u00a0[6-4-20]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I wrote in this paper:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<blockquote>\n<div dir=\"auto\">The charges against Chauvin now are second-degree murder without intent, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. The other three officers who stood by are being charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Yes, I\u2019m in favor of this development. I have yet to find anyone of any political persuasion who defends this action (which I say is murder) against George Floyd. If anyone finds a case of agreement from anyone who is not a KKK wacko (where such a view would be expected), please let me know.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I agree that it\u2019s extremely troubling. Just one bad apple can be comprehended, but three others watching and enabling it is beyond insane; pure evil. And they included a black man and an Asian-American and Hispanic-American, so it wasn\u2019t just the good ol\u2019 boy white man\u2019s network. It\u2019s like it represented the increasing diversity of America. And this wasn\u2019t even the South. It was liberal Minnesota: the land of Hubert Humphrey and Walter Mondale.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I think we more or less have to conclude that there is truly significant racism and corruption among police: even if it is a relatively small minority. It\u2019s enough for these incidents to keep happening, and enough to conclude that it is absolutely necessary to reform it now.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<blockquote>\n<div dir=\"auto\">It\u2019s no different from sexual abuse among Catholic priests and indeed (as we are sadly finding out) in every other sector of society. There are networks that try to cover up these hideous sins. And there is tremendous corruption in government: even you and I agree that what was done with the FBI was against the rule of law and should have never occurred.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">The question is the <em>degree<\/em> to which this is a problem. Do we reform the police and get rid of bad cops or do we defund them and continue trying to injure or even kill them?<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">George Floyd is merely one case amongst many of a problem that has continued to plague many Americans. Have you heard of Breonna Taylor? Elijah McCain? Philando Castile? We don\u2019t have to abolish police to be vocal about police brutality. Your platform highlights riots more than peaceful protests and the actual victims of police brutality.<\/span><\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div class=\"kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I\u2019ve been following it closely. It has to be a case-by-case basis. In the latest incident in Kenosha, the shooting victim, Jacob Blake (with a police record) has admitted that he was in possession of a knife. He was being arrested but then got up and walked to his car (apparently to get something, which may have been a weapon, for all the police know). We now have a longer video that proves this. All this guy had to do was cooperate with the police, and he wouldn\u2019t have been shot. It\u2019s not rocket science.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Now, I don\u2019t know why they had to shoot him <em>seven times<\/em>. It may very well have been an example of excessive force. All the facts have to be ascertained, and the only thorough, fair way to do that is with a jury trial. I am opposed to \u201ctrial by the [liberal] media.\u201d That\u2019s now how our legal system works. It\u2019s designed to be as fair and just as possible and to get at the facts, determined by an impartial jury of one\u2019s peers. Until that happens, I can\u2019t make a final judgment on it.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Jason Whitlock, the black sports commentator, has called for further investigation before making a judgment, and has chastised LeBron James as a \u201cbigot\u201d for failing to do so, and making bigoted remarks. He wrote:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<blockquote>\n<div dir=\"auto\">I\u2019m black. I\u2019m not scared. I\u2019m not terrified. . . . If you comply with police instructions, there is virtually no chance of an American citizen being harmed by police. . . .<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Jacob Blake, . . . had an active arrest warrant for third-degree sexual assault at the time of the shooting. Blake has previously been arrested for pointing a weapon at people, carrying a concealed weapon into a building and domestic violence. . . .<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">When I watched the initial viral video showing police shooting Blake in the back I was outraged. I waited to calm down. I sent the video to a couple of friends and discussed it with them. We wondered why it was only 20 seconds. Why was it edited? Was it edited and then released to provoke outrage, fear and rioting?<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">I decided it was best to wait for additional information before making any sort of comment. (I\u2019m still waiting for additional information. This column is not a defense of the police or vilification of Blake.)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<blockquote>\n<div dir=\"auto\">LeBron James has more than 40 million followers on Twitter. Doesn\u2019t he have a moral responsibility to be informed and measured before commenting on a controversy that could inspire civil unrest? What\u2019s the harm in waiting 48 hours, 72 hours or a week? (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.outkick.com\/whitlock-lebron-james-is-a-bigot\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cWhitlock: LeBron James is a Bigot,\u201d<\/a><em>Outkick<\/em>, 8-26-20)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">In an even <em>more<\/em> scathing article, Whitlock opines:\n<blockquote><p>The politicization of Jacob Blake is a byproduct of political dishonesty. The prevailing sentiment propagandized by BLM that police are intentionally targeting black men is a political ploy.<\/p>\n<p>Jacob Blake, George Floyd, Eric Garner and Rayshard Brooks are not examples of \u201csystemic racism.\u201d If anything, they\u2019re examples of \u201csystemic resisting arrest.\u201d . . .<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a joke. The architects of the system are using LeBron James and athletes to point black people at the wrong target. The athletes are useful idiots. They\u2019ve been talked into dedicating themselves to ensuring that career criminals are unharmed while resisting arrest and refusing to comply with police instructions.<\/p>\n<p>The Detroit Lions canceled practice so they could speak out on behalf of a man wanted for sexual assault. The city of Kenosha is being burned to the ground on behalf of a man who wrestled with police and wouldn\u2019t comply with instructions at gunpoint.<\/p>\n<p>Across the country, police kill roughly 250 to 300 black people a year. The overwhelming majority of those killed are armed and violently resisting arrest. Thousands of black people are killed by black people every year. In Detroit alone roughly 250 black people are murdered annually. The majority of the murders go unsolved.<\/p>\n<p>The Detroit Lions do not care.<\/p>\n<p>An unarmed black man is a million times more likely to be killed by another black man than the police. But LeBron is terrified of police? (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.outkick.com\/career-politicians-who-created-systemic-unfairness-are-playing-lebron-and-his-disciples-for-suckers\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cBLM 101: Career Politicians Who Created Systemic Unfairness are Playing LeBron and His Disciples for Suckers\u201d<\/a>, <em>Outkick<\/em>, 8-27-20)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>*<\/p>\n<p>See also the related article: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.realclearpolitics.com\/video\/2020\/08\/26\/brandon_tatum_jacob_blake_police_shooting_was_justified.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cBrandon Tatum: Jacob Blake Police Shooting Was Justified\u201d<\/a> (Tyler Stone, <em>Real Clear Politics<\/em>, 8-26-20)<\/p>\n<p>*<\/p>\n<p>Yet these factors make no difference to the rioters there. They\u2019re obviously not interested in the facts of the matter. Floyd was a case of true corruption, and everyone agrees with it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I defend the police (i.e., as a whole, or in general terms), who are being massively lied about as if 90% of \u2019em are corrupt and racist (which can\u2019t be true because many are black), just like I defend the massive majority of Catholic priests who are good servants of God and must not be hated and lied about because of the 2% or so who molested children (a problem which is now seen to be in all areas of society).<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Broad-brushing the police as evil, just as is done with many large groups (which is what Marxism does), is just as bigoted as any other form of prejudice. I\u2019m a middle-aged suburban white guy, culturally (though not financially!) middle class, with southern ancestry, and Catholic and conservative and pro-life, so I am a target of bigotry from liberals on all those levels.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Don\u2019t get me started on \u201cwhite privilege\u201d: with my upbringing in inner-city Detroit . . .<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I just showed you how I have addressed brutality and endorsed police reform. I highlight the riots because they are far more prevalent than rare unjust shootings: and to balance what the liberal media does (and to encourage votes for republicans, who will oppose lawlessness, unlike many Democrat mayors).<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">One doesn\u2019t fight evil by going out and committing much more and greater evil than what one is supposedly opposing. One fights it with love, peaceful protest, civil disobedience, and reform and law: the Martin Luther King way (and the Malcolm X way in the last year of his life).<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It is a case by case basis but my point is that these other cases are not being highlighted by your platform because they are indefensible. It\u2019s not like only black people are victims of police brutality. You\u2019re bringing up accusations of the police being racist. Who said that? <\/span><\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">Of course, BLM says the police are racist. That\u2019s why black cops get taunted by moronic rich white suburban kids for not being black or Uncle Toms and all the usual \u201cliberal white guilt\u201d nonsense . . .<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I\u2019m speaking about police brutality. Do you deny that police brutality is a significant issue?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">As I said, I am for police reform and weeding out all bad cops and unethical policing practices (whether racist or brutal or both). I think it is grotesquely exaggerated, how bad it is. You wish to defund the police? It seems that we only disagree on the degree of the problem and maybe the solution.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I am not entirely sure about defunding but whatever is defunded could be used to fund education and other important institutions. Police aren\u2019t the only ones who need a lot of funding. Are you familiar with<\/span>\u00a0<a class=\"oajrlxb2 g5ia77u1 qu0x051f esr5mh6w e9989ue4 r7d6kgcz rq0escxv nhd2j8a9 nc684nl6 p7hjln8o kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x jb3vyjys rz4wbd8a qt6c0cv9 a8nywdso i1ao9s8h esuyzwwr f1sip0of lzcic4wl py34i1dx gpro0wi8 decorated-link\" tabindex=\"0\" role=\"link\" href=\"https:\/\/l.facebook.com\/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmappingpoliceviolence.org%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0oVhKbDfLavvFqEDjlDVJNLMoNx7f3BpSt7nhIpoGVnhUrBlUO6MNOLNI&amp;h=AT2pCnoK-ujfDc7u9JD6F2KrxRFAL1__BRBllzeOcWvMs5IaqLIJ3oJLxPHDNlqpvhk_yK_8kqbxMFQFZMfOrSmFPGdqgdpPvmg03-OHXoX328qQ-LGlTlpSIxU3bV6b11IojFN1HsU_bPSCf2Tf&amp;__tn__=R%5D-R&amp;c%5B0%5D=AT2RBg02-NPE0oYlVxtwRfbdoqpi4ejo-8KnFIKOh1qOnM21F07aUAEbWgJVf1Z-THphRJe1q1vVx1nbI-kQzuGStQOjzrmvhbuuGMgwxVGs0vGeCBX0o5N_DqGduVkgogn91_J9sNiSzVJZMT4g\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">mappingpoliceviolence.org<\/a>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">? If you don\u2019t think it\u2019s a significant enough issue then look at those stats. Police have killed 751 people in 2020. I hope you don\u2019t think that\u2019s normal.<\/span><\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div class=\"kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I don\u2019t have a basis to determine whether it is \u201cnormal\u201d or not because it has to be determined on a case-by-case basis (which you agreed with above). If say, 700 of those involved suspects not cooperating with police, resisting arrest, literally attacking them with weapons, or reasonably thought to be in the attempt to do so (reaching for unknown things, etc.), then the police officer had a right to defend himself or herself. Also, what percentage is that of all arrests? It is certainly very tiny.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">No doubt there are cases of true corruption and excess and unethical police behavior. Those officers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I think virtually all cops would agree. No one detests a corrupt person more than others in their same group who aren\u2019t corrupt.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">I know that many of the publicized cases were not at all what they were claimed to be, including the one that is \u201cremembered\u201d by \u201chands up\u201d when that didn\u2019t even happen. That\u2019s just anecdotal, but I think it indicates the biases and predispositions likely in play. We have another case right now in Kenosha, where there are serious questions and it is not at all <em>self-evident<\/em> that it was police brutality.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">But one would never know that by the riots taking place there: destroying property, including black-owned businesses (which inevitably suffer in almost all urban riots).<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div class=\"kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Jacob Blake did admit to having a knife in his possession, and why would someone resisting arrest go around his car and enter it? What are cops supposed to think of that? You\u2019re understandably \u201csuspicious\u201d if you try to do <em>anything<\/em>\u00a0of that sort, while being arrested.<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">Seven shots, however, does <em>seem<\/em> to me, <em>prima facie<\/em>, to be excessive. I\u2019d like to hear the officer explain that. At this point, it seems to me that there are decent arguments on both sides of the incident. But I would always defer to the informed judgment of a jury trial in such cases and not accept the account of the liberal media as GOSPEL TRVTH.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/jondcurry?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDozNjA1MjMwOTY2MTc4NTI5XzM2MDgyMjAyMzkyMTI5MzU%3D&amp;__cft__%5B0%5D=AZXvg09cax5Z4U0ZJMarU5ZC_KPdovet8ucBhUYk156zog8d8CNH7n0hYoWE7oiPluLs2cbL4LmbcYW79w7p6KxgZI0UCnH3oP5cDN4zhnwhctXLbjo1raCD6J3iWYqivUE&amp;__tn__=R%5D-R\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Jon Curry<\/a>, my atheist and very far left friend (with whom I wrote the paper referenced at the top), actually agreed with me:<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div class=\"kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #008000;\">I kind of agree with you. I don\u2019t see this as so much malicious on the part of the police officer as maybe more incompetent. When guns are drawn and you\u2019re ignoring police orders and reaching into your car, where we later learn there is a knife, what can we really expect of the police officer?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #008000;\">I absolutely agree police treatment of minorities and generally poorer people is an issue, but sometimes the examples that people seize on in protest are not the greatest. George Floyd was a perfect case, that\u2019s just straight murder and the other cops there are enabling it. This reveals a systemic issue, not a few bad apples. This case, though, I don\u2019t think is such a good example. There has got to be a better way to restrain someone in a safe way, so that\u2019s where you can criticize the police here, but not as if they are acting maliciously. <\/span><\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><span style=\"color: #008000;\">I\u2019ve been doing jiu jitsu for a couple of years, I\u2019m no expert, but I feel I could wrap an untrained person up safely and just hold them until the cuffs are on or whatever. Police, who exercise and are usually stronger than me should be able to do this and resort to guns less frequently.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">I totally agree (stop the presses!).<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">*<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>Photo credit:\u00a0<\/strong><\/span><a class=\"owner-name truncate no-outline decorated-link\" title=\"Go to Johnny Silvercloud's photostream\" href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/johnnysilvercloud\/\" data-track=\"attributionNameClick\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Johnny Silvercloud<\/a>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">(11-10-15)<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/johnnysilvercloud\/28476745294\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Flickr<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/2.0\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">CC BY-SA 2.0<\/a> license]<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\"><\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">***<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This was an exchange on Facebook with\u00a0Bryson Townsend, whose words will be in blue. ***** Where are your posts about police brutality? Here:\u00a0George Floyd: Atheist &amp; Christian Agree; but What\u2019s the\u00a0Solution? (Christianity Asserts that Evil Begins in Corrupt Human Hearts, &amp; Can Only be Vanquished by God\u2019s Grace &amp;\u00a0Spiritual Revival)\u00a0[6-4-20] I wrote in this paper: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":50754,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[289],"tags":[11207,1575,5160,11201,750,7498,5151,1971,2453,4817,177,6573,6564,11192,5483,11779,11782,11776,4936,6561,11198,4828,11785,11788,1576,11210,1970,11195,11213,11791,176,11216,11204],"class_list":["post-50751","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-political-ethical-moral-issues","tag-antifa","tag-bigotry","tag-black-lives-matter","tag-black-man","tag-civil-rights","tag-civil-rights-movement","tag-colorblind-society","tag-discrimination","tag-equal-rights","tag-equality","tag-evil","tag-fanaticism","tag-freedom","tag-george-floyd","tag-hatred","tag-jacob-blake","tag-jason-whitlock","tag-kenosha","tag-lebron-james","tag-liberty","tag-malcolm-x","tag-martin-luther-king","tag-police-brutality","tag-police-violence","tag-prejudice","tag-protests","tag-racism","tag-racist-cops","tag-riots","tag-shooting-of-black-men","tag-sin","tag-societal-turmoil","tag-violence-against-black-men"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Dialogue on the Extent of Police Brutality Dialogue on the Extent of Police Brutality<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"This was an exchange on Facebook with\u00a0Bryson Townsend, whose words will be in blue. ***** Where are your posts about police brutality? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Dialogue on the Extent of Police Brutality Dialogue on the Extent of Police Brutality","description":"This was an exchange on Facebook with\u00a0Bryson Townsend, whose words will be in blue. ***** Where are your posts about police brutality? Here:\u00a0George Floyd: Dialogue on the nature, causes, and extent of police brutality, with reference to the shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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