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Atheist and anti-theist\u00a0Bob Seidensticker<\/a>,\u00a0who was\u00a0\u201craised Presbyterian\u201d<\/a>,\u00a0runs the influential\u00a0Cross Examined<\/em><\/a>\u00a0blog. He asked me there,\u00a0on 8-11-18<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cI\u2019ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I\u2019ve ignored on one or two of those posts?\u201d<\/span>\u00a0He also made a general statement\u00a0on 6-22-17<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cChristians\u2019 arguments are easy to refute . . . I\u2019ve heard the good stuff, and it\u2019s not very good.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n He added\u00a0in the combox<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cIf I\u2019ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I\u2019ve mischaracterized them.\u201d\u00a0<\/span>Such confusion would indeed be\u00a0predictable<\/em>, seeing that Bob himself admitted\u00a0(2-13-16<\/a>):\u00a0\u201cMy study of the Bible has been haphazard, and I jump around based on whatever I\u2019m researching at the moment.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Bob (for the record) virtually\u00a0begged<\/em>\u00a0and\u00a0pleaded<\/em>\u00a0with me to dialogue with him in May 2018, via email. But by\u00a010-3-18<\/a>,\u00a0following\u00a0massive, childish name-calling attacks<\/a>\u00a0against me,\u00a0 encouraged by Bob on his blog (just prior to his\u00a0banning<\/em>\u00a0me from it), his opinion was as follows:\u00a0\u201cDave Armstrong . . . made it clear that a thoughtful intellectual conversation wasn\u2019t his goal. . . . [I] have no interest in what he\u2019s writing about.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n And on 10-25-18, utterly oblivious to the ludicrous irony of\u00a0his<\/em>\u00a0making the statement, Bob\u00a0wrote in a combox<\/a>\u00a0on his blog:\u00a0\u201cSomeone who\u2019s not a little bit driven to investigate cognitive dissonance will just stay a Christian, fat \u2018n sassy and ignorant.\u201d\u00a0<\/span>Again,\u00a0Bob mocks some Christian in his combox on\u00a010-27-18<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cYou can\u2019t explain it to us, you can\u2019t defend it, you can\u2019t even defend it to yourself. Defend your position or shut up about it. It\u2019s clear you have nothing.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n And again\u00a0on the same day<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cIf you can\u2019t answer the question, man up and say so.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0And on\u00a010-26-18<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cyou refuse to defend it, after being asked over and over again.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0And\u00a0again<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cYou\u2019re<\/i>\u00a0the one playing games, equivocating, and being unable to answer the challenges.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Bob\u2019s cowardly hypocrisy knows no bounds. Again,\u00a0on 6-30-19<\/a>, he was chiding someone for something very much like he himself:\u00a0\u201cSpoken like a true weasel trying to run away from a previous argument. You know, you could just say, \u2018Let me retract my previous statement of X\u2019 or something like that.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0Yeah,\u00a0Bob<\/em>\u00a0could!\u00a0\u00a0He still hasn\u2019t yet uttered one peep in reply<\/a>\u00a0to \u2014 now \u2014 48 of my critiques of his atrocious reasoning.<\/p>\n Bible-Basher Bob\u2019s words will be in\u00a0blue<\/span>.\u00a0To find these posts, follow this link:\u00a0\u201cSeidensticker Folly #\u201d<\/a> or see all of them linked under his own section on my Atheism page<\/a>.<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n Bob writes in his article,<\/span> \u201c<\/span>More Damning Bible Contradictions: #25 Was Jesus Crazy or God?\u201d<\/a> (12-12-19):<\/p>\n Too little is made of a surprising passage from Mark. Jesus was preaching in Galilee, and then:<\/span><\/p>\n When [Jesus\u2019s] family heard about [Jesus being nearby], they went to take charge of him, for they said, \u201cHe is out of his mind<\/strong>\u201d (Mark 3:21).<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n The point of the story contrasts his actual family, who think he\u2019s crazy, with his disciples, who have abandoned their professions to follow him. . . .<\/span><\/p>\n The interesting thing here is his family calling him crazy. How was that possible, when it was clear from other gospels that Jesus was divine?<\/span><\/p>\n Bob then correctly cites and interprets (stop the presses!) several passages which do indeed show that Jesus was God and that Mary knew<\/em> He was (Mt 1:20-24; Lk 1:28-38; 2:8-19, 25-38). Of course, he thinks that this merely suggests contradiction<\/em> between Matthew \/ Luke and Mark, but he has vastly misunderstood<\/em> a passage in Mark, as I will proceed to demonstrate below. He again states correctly:<\/span><\/p>\n Not only are Mary and Joseph assured that their son is divine, but this isn\u2019t a family secret. Word has spread far. The magi informed Herod\u2019s court, and Herod killed infant boys for fear of a rival to the throne; the shepherds tell everyone they can about the angels\u2019 message; Simeon publicly states in the Temple that Jesus is the Messiah; and the Temple teachers see his wisdom for themselves.<\/span><\/p>\n But then he presents his ludicrous thesis:<\/span><\/p>\n Let\u2019s return to Mark, where Jesus\u2019s mother and brothers want to take charge of him because he\u2019s crazy. Jesus can\u2019t be both crazy and divine. But drop the requirement that these stories must harmonize, and the resolution is easy.<\/span><\/p>\n Matthew and Luke copy (sometimes verbatim) from Mark. In fact,\u00a097 percent of Mark is copied\u00a0by either Matthew or Luke or both. However, the nativity stories appear only in Matthew and Luke, and the \u201cJesus is crazy\u201d story appears only in Mark. Mark threw the holy family under the bus to make the point that following Jesus is a higher calling than familial loyalty, but Matthew and Luke didn\u2019t copy that story, perhaps because, as we\u2019ve seen here, it conflicts with the clear evidence in the nativity stories that Jesus is different because he\u2019s divine.<\/span><\/p>\n Mark and the other two synoptic gospels had different agendas.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n It so happens that I have already refuted this lie and total misunderstanding at great length in my article<\/span>, \u201cDid the Blessed Virgin Mary Think Jesus Was Nuts?\u201d<\/a> (7-2-20). I need not reiterate the entire argument, since the link will suffice, but let me present a few highlights:<\/span><\/p>\n Mark 3:21-22\u00a0<\/strong>(RSV)\u00a0<\/strong>And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for\u00a0people<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0were saying, \u201cHe is beside himself.\u201d\u00a0[22] And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, \u201cHe is possessed by Be-el\u2019zebul, and by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.\u201d (cf. Jn 10:20-21)<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Note the italicized and bolded word. Other translations (including, unfortunately, KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB) make it sound like Jesus\u2019\u00a0family<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0were agreeing and\/or saying that Jesus\u2019 was mad, but in fact the text is saying that \u201cpeople\u201d in general were doing so (just as the Pharisees did).<\/span><\/p>\n But if the text doesn\u2019t refer to them, it can simply be construed as His family coming out to remove Him from the crowds, who were massively misunderstanding Him, accusing, and perhaps becoming violent (as at Nazareth, when they tried to throw Him over a cliff). Hence, there would be no necessary implication of His family\u2019s (let alone Mary\u2019s) disbelief in Him. They were concerned for His safety. Other translations convey the true sense of the passage (which is interpreted by 3:22 indicating that the \u201cscribes<\/em>\u201d were saying Jesus was crazy):<\/span><\/p>\n NRSV\u00a0<\/strong>When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, \u201cHe has gone out of his mind.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Good News \/ (TEV)\u00a0<\/strong>When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, \u201cHe\u2019s gone mad!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Moffatt<\/strong>\u00a0. . . . . . for men were saying, \u201cHe is out of his mind.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Phillips<\/strong>\u00a0. . . for people were saying, \u201cHe must be mad!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n NEB<\/strong>\u00a0. . . for people were saying that he was out of his mind. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n We know that there was some unbelief in the former [His extended family] (\u201cFor even his brothers did not believe in him\u201d: John 7:5). But this doesn\u2019t include Mary,\u00a0nor can any passage be found that directly implies any disbelief in Mary about her Son<\/em>\u00a0and His status as God Incarnate and Messiah<\/span>.\u00a0She knew about that<\/a>\u00a0from the time of<\/span>\u00a0the Annunciation<\/a>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Nor is disbelief on the part of some<\/em> of His relatives the same as thinking He was crazy<\/em>; out of His mind.<\/span><\/p>\n This absolutely pulverizes Bob\u2019s contention that Mark (with his supposed particular agenda, etc., etc.) was portraying Jesus\u2019 family as against Him; thinking He had gone mad. It takes out one of his key premises: obtained from all of his skeptical reading about the Bible, from those who despise it and Christianity and Christians: which he parrots and uncritically regurgitates. If the foundation<\/em> of his argument is wiped out, then the \u201chouse\u201d of his silly argument collapses as well.<\/span><\/p>\n Bob makes another false statement within his overall fictional false narrative. I repeat it from above:<\/span> \u201cMark threw the holy family under the bus to make the point that following Jesus is a higher calling than familial loyalty, . . .\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n This larger point and theory of a supposed peculiarity in Mark is demonstrably untrue as well. All four Gospels have definite elements of \u201cfollowing Jesus as a priority over one\u2019s own family.\u201d The Gospel of John, as we saw in my quotation of my past paper, above, states,\u00a0\u201cFor even his brothers did not believe in him\u201d (7:5, RSV, as throughout this paper). Luke records Jesus saying, after His townsfolk in Nazareth rejected Him and tried to throw him off a steep cliff: \u201cTruly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his own country\u201d (4:24). Matthew concurs: \u201cA\u00a0prophet is\u00a0not without honor except in his own country and in his own house\u201d (13:57; cf. Mk 6:4).<\/span><\/p>\n All<\/em> the gospels agree in teaching this message about the conflict of loyalties between home \/ family and following Jesus \/ God as a called disciple. Mark is no different from the other three:<\/span><\/p>\n Matthew 4:18-22<\/strong>\u00a0As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.\u00a0[19] And he said to them, \u201cFollow me, and I will make you fishers of men.\u201d\u00a0[20] Immediately they left their nets and followed him. [21] And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zeb\u2019edee and John his brother, in the boat with Zeb\u2019edee their father, mending their nets, and he called them.\u00a0[22] Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed him.<\/span><\/p>\n Matthew 16:24-25<\/strong>\u00a0Then Jesus told his disciples, \u201cIf any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.\u00a0[25] For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.<\/span><\/p>\n Matthew 19:27-29\u00a0<\/strong>Then Peter said in reply, \u201cLo, we have left everything and followed you. What then shall we have?\u201d\u00a0[28] Jesus said to them, \u201cTruly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.\u00a0[29] And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name\u2019s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.<\/span><\/p>\n Mark 1:16-20<\/strong>\u00a0And passing along by the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew the brother of Simon casting a net in the sea; for they were fishermen.\u00a0[17] And Jesus said to them, \u201cFollow me and I will make you become fishers of men.\u201d\u00a0[18] And immediately they left their nets and followed him.\u00a0[19] And going on a little farther, he saw James the son of Zeb\u2019edee and John his brother, who were in their boat mending the nets.\u00a0[20] And immediately he called them; and they left their father Zeb\u2019edee in the boat with the hired servants, and followed him.<\/span><\/p>\n Mark 8:34-35<\/strong>\u00a0And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, \u201cIf any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.\u00a0[35] For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel\u2019s will save it.<\/span><\/p>\n Mark 10:28-30<\/strong>\u00a0Peter began to say to him, \u201cLo, we have left everything and followed you.\u201d\u00a0[29] Jesus said, \u201cTruly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel,\u00a0[30] who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.<\/span><\/p>\n Luke 9:23-24<\/strong>\u00a0And he said to all, \u201cIf any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.\u00a0[24] For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it.<\/span><\/p>\n Luke 18:28-30\u00a0<\/strong>And Peter said, \u201cLo, we have left our homes and followed you.\u201d\u00a0[29] And he said to them, \u201cTruly, I say to you, there is no man who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,\u00a0[30] who will not receive manifold more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n John 1:35-47\u00a0<\/strong>The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples;\u00a0[36] and he looked at Jesus as he walked, and said, \u201cBehold, the Lamb of God!\u201d\u00a0[37] The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus.\u00a0[38] Jesus turned, and saw them following, and said to them, \u201cWhat do you seek?\u201d And they said to him, \u201cRabbi\u201d (which means Teacher), \u201cwhere are you staying?\u201d\u00a0[39] He said to them, \u201cCome and see.\u201d They came and saw where he was staying; and they stayed with him that day, for it was about the tenth hour.\u00a0[40] One of the two who heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter\u2019s brother.\u00a0[41] He first found his brother Simon, and said to him, \u201cWe have found the Messiah\u201d (which means Christ).\u00a0[42] He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, \u201cSo you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas\u201d (which means Peter).\u00a0[43] The next day Jesus decided to go to Galilee. And he found Philip and said to him, \u201cFollow me.\u201d\u00a0[44] Now Philip was from Beth-sa\u2019ida, the city of Andrew and Peter.\u00a0[45] Philip found Nathan\u2019a-el, and said to him, \u201cWe have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.\u201d\u00a0[46] Nathan\u2019a-el said to him, \u201cCan anything good come out of Nazareth?\u201d Philip said to him, \u201cCome and see.\u201d\u00a0[47] Jesus saw Nathan\u2019a-el coming to him, and said of him, \u201cBehold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\nJesus is crazy<\/strong><\/span><\/h3>\n
Making sense of the contradiction<\/strong><\/span><\/h3>\n
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