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Atheist and anti-theist\u00a0Bob Seidensticker<\/a>,\u00a0who was\u00a0\u201craised Presbyterian\u201d<\/a>,\u00a0runs the influential\u00a0Cross Examined<\/em><\/a>\u00a0blog. He asked me there,\u00a0on 8-11-18<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cI\u2019ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I\u2019ve ignored on one or two of those posts?\u201d<\/span>\u00a0He also made a general statement\u00a0on 6-22-17<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cChristians\u2019 arguments are easy to refute . . . I\u2019ve heard the good stuff, and it\u2019s not very good.\u201d\u00a0<\/span>He added\u00a0in the combox<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cIf I\u2019ve misunderstood the Christian position or Christian arguments, point that out. Show me where I\u2019ve mischaracterized them.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n Bob (for the record) virtually\u00a0begged<\/em>\u00a0and\u00a0pleaded<\/em>\u00a0with me to dialogue with him in May 2018, via email. But by\u00a010-3-18<\/a>,\u00a0following\u00a0massive, childish name-calling attacks<\/a>\u00a0against me,\u00a0 encouraged by Bob on his blog (just prior to his\u00a0banning<\/em>\u00a0me from it), his opinion was as follows:\u00a0\u201cDave Armstrong . . . made it clear that a thoughtful intellectual conversation wasn\u2019t his goal. . . . [I] have no interest in what he\u2019s writing about.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Bob mocks some Christian in his combox on\u00a010-27-18<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cYou can\u2019t explain it to us, you can\u2019t defend it, you can\u2019t even defend it to yourself. Defend your position or shut up about it.\u201d\u00a0<\/span>And again\u00a0on the same day<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cIf you can\u2019t answer the question, man up and say so.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0And on\u00a010-26-18<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cyou refuse to defend it, after being asked over and over again.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0And\u00a0again<\/a>:\u00a0\u201cYou\u2019re<\/i>\u00a0the one playing games, equivocating, and being unable to answer the challenges.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Bob\u2019s cowardly hypocrisy knows no bounds. Again,\u00a0on 6-30-19<\/a>, he was chiding someone for something very much like he himself:\u00a0\u201cSpoken like a true weasel trying to run away from a previous argument. You know, you could just say, \u2018Let me retract my previous statement of X\u2019 or something like that.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0Yeah,\u00a0Bob<\/em>\u00a0could!\u00a0\u00a0He still hasn\u2019t yet uttered one peep in reply<\/a>\u00a0to \u2014 now \u2014 51 of my critiques of his atrocious reasoning.<\/p>\n Bible-Basher Bob\u2019s words will be in\u00a0blue<\/span>.\u00a0To find these posts, follow this link:\u00a0\u201cSeidensticker Folly #\u201d<\/a> or see all of them linked under his own section on my Atheism page<\/a>.<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n Bob wrote in his article, \u201c<\/span><\/span>Debunking 10 Popular Christian Principles for Reading the Bible\u201d<\/a> (2-27-19; update from 3-2-15):<\/p>\n Every Bible shows related verses in the margin or in a footnote. Read these other verses to clarify any difficult passages.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n The puzzle given is Paul\u2019s statement that \u201c[the human body] is sown a natural body, [but] it is raised a spiritual body\u201d (1 Corinthians 15:44). Paul is rejecting the imperfect physical body and sees it perfected in the spiritual equivalent<\/strong>. While this was popular Greek thinking at the time, it was eventually rejected by the Christian church.<\/span><\/p>\n But Paul out of step with Christianity<\/strong> isn\u2019t an embarrassing problem, . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n Let\u2019s instead assume the reverse and impose the idea of a body-less spirit<\/strong> from the first verse onto the second verse: \u201cThe [spirit\/ghost] makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments.\u201d Now we\u2019re talking about a risen spirit that has discarded its material body<\/strong>. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n The only problem Wallace solves is how to hammer the Bible to fit his preconceptions. He goes into his Bible study certain that God raises bodies physically rather than spiritually<\/strong>, and he\u2019s determined to wring that meaning from it. That\u2019s not how an honest person reads the Bible. [my bolding; after the title]<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n In summary, Bob claims that St. Paul and the Bible do not teach a physical, resurrected body of those who are saved and go to heaven, and then notes that later Christianity rejects this (which is true, because it never was<\/em> biblical teaching). There are several ways to show that this is an absurd and ludicrous misreading of the Bible; a falsehood and a lie.<\/span><\/p>\n The easiest way, I think, is to show that the resurrection of Jesus (the prototype of the general resurrection of the saved: the \u201cfirst fruits: 1 Cor 15:20-22) was physical<\/strong>. He didn\u2019t come back as a non-material spirit or \u201cghost\u201d:<\/span><\/p>\n Luke 24:36-43<\/strong>\u00a0(RSV) As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them.\u00a0[37] But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit.\u00a0[38] And he said to them, \u201cWhy are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts?\u00a0[39] See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.\u201d\u00a0[41] And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, \u201cHave you anything here to eat?\u201d\u00a0[42] They gave him a piece of broiled fish,\u00a0[43] and he took it and ate before them.<\/span><\/p>\n John 20:17<\/strong>\u00a0Jesus said to her, \u201cDo not hold me, . . . \u201c<\/span><\/p>\n John 20:24-27<\/strong>\u00a0 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.\u00a0[25] So the other disciples told him, \u201cWe have seen the Lord.\u201d But he said to them, \u201cUnless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.\u201d\u00a0[26]\u00a0Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, \u201cPeace be with you.\u201d\u00a0[27] Then he said to Thomas, \u201cPut your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n John 21:12-15<\/strong>\u00a0Jesus said to them, \u201cCome and have breakfast.\u201d Now none of the disciples dared ask him, \u201cWho are you?\u201d They knew it was the Lord.\u00a0[13] Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish.\u00a0[14] This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.\u00a0[15]\u00a0When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n Mere spirits or ghosts can\u2019t be held or touched, and they can\u2019t eat fish or bread. Resurrection means \u201craising a body from the dead.\u201d I could go into meanings of Greek biblical words, but why bother? Christians already know this, and Bob couldn\u2019t care less, because he thinks all Christians are ignoramuses and can\u2019t teach him anything. He refuses to learn or be corrected. So I will stick to Scripture itself for my present purposes. Even Bob (in a roundabout way) is calling for a consideration of all the Bible on any given topic, so we are doing precisely that. I\u2019m all for it! It always shows that Bob is clueless and out to sea in his exegesis.<\/span><\/p>\n The next thing we show, having demonstrated that Jesus had a glorified \u201cspiritual\u201d physical body after His resurrection, is that Paul describes our own resurrected bodies as like that of Jesus:<\/span><\/p>\n Romans 6:5<\/strong>\u00a0For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.\\<\/span><\/p>\n Philippians 3:20-21<\/strong> . . .\u00a0a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,\u00a0[21] who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n Paul talks about our resurrection bodies, which we \u201cput on\u201d being \u201cimperishable.\u201d In other words, he\u2019s saying that according to natural law, physical bodies perish and die, but spiritual, resurrected bodies do not. He\u2019s not talking about spirits. If it were a transformation of a physical body into a spirit, he wouldn\u2019t use the terminology of \u201craised\u201d either: because that refers to physical bodies, which died, and are now \u201craised\u201d. Nor would he refer to a \u201cspiritual body\u201d: he would have simply referred to a \u201cspirit\u201d (which the New Testament does many times<\/a>). The two are not at all identical, as Bob assumes. The whole point was Jesus conquering physical death, which applies to physical bodies, not spirits.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 15:42-44<\/strong>\u00a0So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.\u00a0[43] It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.\u00a0[44] It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.<\/span><\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 15:53-54<\/strong>\u00a0For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.\u00a0[54] When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: \u201cDeath is swallowed up in victory.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n The Gospel of Matthew exhibits the same understanding of resurrected bodies of the dead:<\/span><\/p>\n Matthew 27:52<\/strong>\u00a0the tombs also were opened, and many<\/span> bodies<\/em><\/span> of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n Here is another passage from Paul that plainly refer to bodily resurrection:<\/span><\/p>\n Romans 8:22-23<\/strong>\u00a0We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now;\u00a0[23] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies<\/em><\/span>.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n Case closed. Bob the Bible-Basher is wrong yet again about what the Bible (agree or disagree) teaches<\/em>. It\u2019s amazing how often that happens. His goal was to make fools of Christians and Christianity and to mock the Bible. Instead he has made an ass of himself, and this is the 52nd time I have documented it. The Bible aptly and vividly describes what he does:<\/span><\/p>\n Proverbs 26:11<\/strong>\u00a0Like a dog that returns to his\u00a0<\/b>vomit\u00a0is a fool that repeats his folly.<\/span><\/p>\n 2 Peter 2:22<\/strong> . . .\u00a0the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n **<\/p>\n Photo credit:\u00a0<\/strong><\/span>Mark Peters<\/a>\u00a0(9-26-10)\u00a0Yorkshire pigs\u00a0wallow in mud at the Poplar Spring Animal Sanctuary in Poolesville, Maryland<\/span> [Wikimedia Commons<\/a> \/\u00a0Creative Commons<\/a>\u00a0Attribution 2.0 Generic<\/a>\u00a0license]<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Atheist and anti-theist\u00a0Bob Seidensticker,\u00a0who was\u00a0\u201craised Presbyterian\u201d,\u00a0runs the influential\u00a0Cross Examined\u00a0blog. He asked me there,\u00a0on 8-11-18:\u00a0\u201cI\u2019ve got 1000+ posts here attacking your worldview. You just going to let that stand? Or could you present a helpful new perspective that I\u2019ve ignored on one or two of those posts?\u201d\u00a0He also made a general statement\u00a0on 6-22-17:\u00a0\u201cChristians\u2019 arguments are easy […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":51131,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124,583],"tags":[4129,3804,1043,258,212,4126,5552,1408,3587,11927,11930,2516,1347,11924,11921],"class_list":["post-51125","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","category-hell-satan-last-things","tag-alleged-bible-contradictions","tag-angry-atheist","tag-anti-theism","tag-atheism","tag-atheist-christian-discussion","tag-bob-seidensticker","tag-cross-examined","tag-general-resurrection","tag-ghosts","tag-glorified-bodies","tag-post-resurrection-body","tag-resurrection","tag-resurrection-of-jesus","tag-spirits","tag-spiritual-bodies"],"yoast_head":"\nPrinciple #3: Let the Bible Clarify the Bible.<\/strong><\/span><\/h4>\n