{"id":54144,"date":"2021-01-18T13:06:52","date_gmt":"2021-01-18T17:06:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=54144"},"modified":"2021-01-18T13:52:10","modified_gmt":"2021-01-18T17:52:10","slug":"star-of-bethlehem-2nd-reply-to-arrogant-aaron-adair","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/01\/star-of-bethlehem-2nd-reply-to-arrogant-aaron-adair.html","title":{"rendered":"Star of Bethlehem: 2nd Reply to Arrogant Aaron Adair"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

I have replied to atheist physicist Aaron Adair once already:\u00a0Star of Bethlehem: Reply to Obnoxious Atheist Aaron Adair<\/a>\u00a0(Plus Further Related Exchanges with Aaron and a Few Others in an Atheist Combox)\u00a0<\/a>[1-14-21] He has come back with a new hit-piece:\u00a0\u201cWho do you say I am?\u201d Bad Commentary Research on the SoB<\/a> [1-18-21], which was a \u201creply\u201d to my post,\u00a0Bible Commentaries & Matthew 2:9 (Star of Bethlehem)<\/a>\u00a0[1-13-21].<\/p>\n

What follows is my counter-response, which was also posted underneath his article in the Tippling Philosopher<\/em> forum. No doubt it\u2019ll lead to another \u201cfeeding frenzy\u201d of atheists insults. Let \u2019em fly! I engage in serious discourse. not excrement-throwing contests. Aaron\u2019s words will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Dave proves that he is not an honest researcher, but the worst form of apologist, including hiding relevant information and even straight-up knowingly lying. I don\u2019t like to make this latter accusation, but it is provably so, as I will demonstrate. . . .<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, he\u2019s taken this tactic to the level, dishonest level. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Mr. Armstrong is imposing a lot onto this commentary and ignoring virtually everything else. Obviously because it doesn\u2019t fit what he wants. So this is both a lie of omission and a lie of saying something is there which is not.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

. . . he is lying. He knows this isn\u2019t true, but says it anyways. That makes him a lying liar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, let\u2019s take stock of all of this. Does Dave\u2019s failure to honestly present information . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

He doesn\u2019t know the facts, and he cannot honestly represent the data.<\/span><\/p>\n

This is even more ridiculous and fact-challenged than Arrogant Aaron\u2019s last hit-piece (and that was an awfully low bar itself). It deserves no reply at all, excepting just one thing:<\/p>\n

Can you see a pattern yet? Dave continuously avoids showing what else these commentaries say. That is a classic quote mine, and it is a disingenuous method of citation. It actively hides what the quoter doesn\u2019t want you to know. However, so far, these are lies of omission.<\/span><\/p>\n

Absolute lie: and this is the bulk of his pseudo-\u201cargumentation.\u201d He simply repeats the same falsehood over and over. I made it very clear in my paper citing many commentaries<\/a>:<\/p>\n

For the sake of brevity, I only cite them where they agree with me or when they claim not to\u00a0know\u00a0<\/i>what it was (neutral or agnostic position: II and IV below). I\u2019m not\u00a0denying<\/i>\u00a0at all that these commentators may also\u00a0disagree<\/i>\u00a0on the other major point or additional ones. Readers who want to see their entire comment on Matthew 2:9 can follow the links I provide.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This wasn\u2019t added \u201cafter the fact\u201d in the face of Aaron\u2019s tortured logic and cynicism as to my honesty and competence. It was there from the beginning.<\/p>\n

Aaron for some reason that I cannot fathom, seems to be unable to comprehend the notion of citing someone where they agree, whereas the same person cited may very well disagree on other things. It\u2019s not automatically dishonest citation. Aaron hopes and wishes that it is so in my case, so he can mock and dismiss my overall case, but it simply isn\u2019t<\/em>: try as he may to make it so.<\/p>\n

Citation of this sort (i.e., in partial agreement) happens all the time in apologetics and theology. To give one example of hundreds: Martin Luther agrees with Catholics (over against someone like Zwingli in his time and Baptists in ours) that in the Eucharist is Jesus\u2019 Real Presence. But he disagrees with our doctrine of transubstantiation and also of the sacrifice of the Mass. This is all made very clear in my writings. I wrote one book very critical of him<\/a> overall (while still noting agreements) and then edited another consisting of all writings of Luther\u2019s that Catholics would agree with. This is not dishonest or \u201clying\u201d at all. It\u2019s an exercise in seeking to find as much unity as possible.<\/p>\n

I even entitled the book,\u00a0The \u201cCatholic\u201d Luther<\/a><\/i>. Now, once Aaron sees\u00a0that<\/i>, with his ludicrous methodology, he\u2019ll say, \u201cSee! Dave is such a liar and incompetent buffoon that he thinks Martin Luther is a\u00a0Catholic<\/b><\/i>!\u201d He would likely miss the quotation marks, which change the meaning entirely. In my seven-page introduction<\/a> I explain myself very carefully, so there is no doubt. And it is the same sort of approach that I took in this paper about Bible commentators and the star of Bethlehem:<\/p>\n

I have been very critical of Luther\u2019s theology, where one would except a Catholic apologist to be, but I\u2019ve also always sought to give him credit where it is due, to defend him against bum raps, and to note as much agreement between Luther and Catholics as it is possible to do. . . .<\/p>\n

I can already foresee one of the criticisms that will inevitably be made against this book: \u201cyou have quoted him out of context! If you read the\u00a0next paragraph<\/i>, you\u2019ll see something very different . . .\u201d, etc., etc. . . .<\/p>\n

I\u2019m simply citing the portions of Luther\u2019s writings that a Catholic would agree with. Often it will be a partial agreement, later nuanced and qualified by Luther, and sometimes contradicted by Luther, as his thought is not always necessarily logically consistent or coherent. . . .<\/p>\n

Every work of systematic theology does the same thing: citing short portions of Scripture to establish a common theme of one strand of theology. It\u2019s impossible to provide two pages of context for each passage. That\u2019s not the purpose of it. . . .<\/p>\n

I cite portions of his writing that particularly appeal to Catholics, since we fully agree with them, with the understanding that Luther and Catholics don\u2019t agree on every jot and tittle. This is not quoting \u201cout of context.\u201d It\u2019s\u00a0partial<\/i>\u00a0quotation of one truth that Luther asserts, while not necessarily always noting (as is\u00a0impossible<\/i>\u00a0to do in a quotations book) other truths that he places alongside these. The two things are different.<\/p>\n

The present Introduction is, therefore, supremely important for readers to grasp exactly what I am trying to accomplish and what I am asserting about Luther and his theological positions: to be interpreted within the parameters and assumed qualifications here surveyed.<\/p>\n

The ecumenical endeavor is devoted to finding things that Christians have in common. This book will do exactly that. My aim is not to exaggerate or distort anything in Luther, in order to make out that it is something it is not, or that he is different than he was.<\/p>\n

Ironically, I\u2019ll likely receive heavy criticism from several directions.\u00a0Some<\/i>\u00a0Catholics (especially those who consider themselves more \u201ctraditional\u201d on the spectrum) will think I am whitewashing Luther and giving the public a \u201ccleaned-up\u201d version who appears so Catholic that they will think there is scarcely any difference between the two theological camps. They\u2019ll object to that as dishonest and compromised.<\/p>\n

Some<\/i>\u00a0Lutherans, on the other hand, may object insofar as they might think I have deliberately concealed Luther\u2019s \u201cLutheran distinctives\u201d in order to make him palatable to Catholics. And this will offend them. They\u2019ll say that I\u2019m not presenting him as he was, and not in context.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This is, of course, an extended analogy, and Arrogant Aaron has shown that he doesn\u2019t comprehend those<\/em>, either, since every analogical argument I have made in my many papers on the star has been utterly ignored by him as supposedly \u201cirrelevant\u201d or off-topic.<\/p>\n

Be that as it may, it remains a perfectly legitimate form of argumentation. And this material from my book of Luther \u201cCatholic\u201d quotations illustrates exactly how Aaron is dead-wrong in his current critique, just as he was in his last one. He\u2019s simply engaging in sophistry and trying to make out that I am an inveterate liar. I don\u2019t say he is that, because I don\u2019t play his game. But I do say that he is lying about me<\/em> over and over and speaking falsehood about me.<\/p>\n

I have explained exactly how he is doing that in the above piece of trash.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Aaron replied underneath his paper:<\/p>\n

You can\u2019t honestly quote several sources together, categorize them as \u201cI. Star of Bethlehem Was a Natural Celestial Phenomenon\u201d, and yet not a single one thought the Star was natural. Not. One. That makes you a liar. Clearly so to any literate person.<\/span><\/p>\n

[Y]ou ignore what the commentaries are explicit and unambiguous about:\u00a0the Star was supernatural<\/i>. They said so. In every. Single. Commentary you cite.<\/span><\/p>\n

I summarized what the sections regarding \u201cnatural\u201d or \u201csupernatural\u201d showed about the views of commentators:<\/p>\n

Summary:<\/p>\n

A comet or a supernova or a conjunction are \u201cnatural phenomen[a]\u201d according to Michael J. Wilkins, who says that \u201cmany\u201d commentators have taken one of these views.<\/p>\n

Philip Schaff and Robert H. Mounce think it was a conjunction (my own view).<\/p>\n

Coffman Commentaries says \u201cwe may not know the exact nature of that star\u201d (thus it allows for the possibility of a natural explanation).<\/p>\n

D. A. Carson says that \u201csupernatural [view] is possible\u201d which clearly means that a natural view may have been the case.<\/p>\n

All this and you come up with your alt-reality nonsense. It\u2019s bizarre. You deny the obvious reality of what you are reading. I think it\u2019s explained simply by extreme hostility. That does odd things to a mind (even an otherwise brilliant one) and causes it to spew out the most ridiculous interpretations.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong> cover of 2013 book by Aaron Adair, from its<\/span> Amazon page<\/a>.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I have replied to atheist physicist Aaron Adair once already:\u00a0Star of Bethlehem: Reply to Obnoxious Atheist Aaron Adair\u00a0(Plus Further Related Exchanges with Aaron and a Few Others in an Atheist Combox)\u00a0[1-14-21] He has come back with a new hit-piece:\u00a0\u201cWho do you say I am?\u201d Bad Commentary Research on the SoB [1-18-21], which was a \u201creply\u201d 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Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54144","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=54144"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54144\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/54148"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=54144"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=54144"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=54144"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}