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Former Catholic feminist Nica<\/a> (not sure if she still believes in God or not), commented underneath my post,\u00a0Only Spiritual Revival Will Stop Abortion<\/a> (1-25-21), and dialogue commenced (albeit after a very shaky start<\/em>!). Her words will be in blue<\/span>. I have edited the exchange, to maintain topical continuity and for relative brevity\u2019s sake. The complete back-and-forth can be read in the combox<\/a>.<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n Honey, only if and when you have a womb, you have the right to pontificate on pregnancy.<\/span><\/p>\n Honey, only if and when you exercise your brain, will you be able to engage in a discussion on abortion here.<\/p>\n Oh, dear. I guess a BA in philosophy & English & 2 MAs & ABD in religion count for nothing. Oh, & knowing Koine<\/em> Greek. And actually having a uterus. But I\u2019m just a female. Alas!<\/span><\/p>\n They count for a\u00a0lot<\/i>. All the\u00a0more<\/i>\u00a0reason to not make such an idiotic statement. To think that one with a degree in philosophy could make such a ridiculous pseudo-\u201cargument\u201d! But as we know from the Bible, mere education or head knowledge is not at all the same as wisdom and truth-telling.<\/p>\n Dave, I\u2019m truly sorry if I come across as merely antagonistic. The fact is, I enjoy honest debate, a socratic-sort of conversation, yet have little opportunity\/ venues for that these days. So, in this moment, since you\u2019ve kindly answered me, you\u2019re my conversational partner.<\/span><\/p>\n If \u201cidiotic\u201d describes basing one\u2019s ideology upon simply having a uterus or a penis, then we agree. But religious codification of morality imposed ont0 secular laws has no justification. And such religiosity is most often performative rather than personally spiritual.<\/span><\/p>\n Seriously, Dave. I wonder why we mortals weirdly focus on reproduction as THE\u00a0primary moral issue\/\u201ddirective\u201d.<\/i>\u00a0Perhaps that\u2019s it: Our fear of non-being, on nothingness beyond death. But contraception, abortion, & euthanasia won\u2019t abstract us from that Reality we can\u2019t know & fear facing.<\/span><\/p>\n But as we know from the Bible, mere education or head knowledge is not at all the same as wisdom and truth-telling.<\/i><\/p><\/blockquote>\n The Jewish\/Christian bible clearly doesn\u2019t dictate to\u00a0all<\/i>\u00a0Americans. I assume you know this.<\/span><\/p>\n The bible isn\u2019t the key to \u201ctruth\u201d. Nothing is.<\/span><\/p>\n *<\/p>\n Dave, take heed that \u201cpseudo-arguments\u201d belong more to apologetics than to rational discussion. Unlike apologists, I\u2019m not starting with conclusions & then defending them. I\u2019m beginning with premises & then seeing where they lead me. Or, at least, that\u2019s my intent.<\/span><\/p>\n Don\u2019t infantilize or disparage me again. I\u2019m a nearly a 66-yr-old female, once married at a late age & then too early widowed, with no children but having had a late abortion at age 43, living always with rescued dogs & cats, raised as a RC, educated in RC schools for 12 years & way beyond, a college adjunct prof for 20 years at numerous universities with many other years of work history besides, suburban for most of my life but now rural, \u2026 & overall tired of pedantry & the games we all play.<\/span><\/p>\n My rather severe sciatica & scoliosis tend to rule my life these days. So I sometimes snap when insulted. <\/span><\/p>\n I\u2019m sorry to hear that you are physically suffering. I hope you find some solution to that pain soon. I\u2019m also very sorry that you had to endure the agony of an early widowhood. I haven\u2019t experienced that, but I am the last of my original family. Both parents, my only brother, only sister, and a sister-in-law have all died (two of them younger than 50). My 68-year-old sister passed on last year. I couldn\u2019t even visit her in the hospital because of the pandemic.<\/p>\n My comment about \u201cwombs\u201d wasn\u2019t intended as personal; it wasn\u2019t about\u00a0you yourself<\/i>, but about womb-less\u00a0males<\/i>\u00a0in general.:<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, I know. Nor were my comments. Yet you say I have \u201cinfantilize[d] or disparage[d]\u201d<\/span> you as a person. I did no such thing. Even my sarcastic reference to \u201cadults\u201d was rhetoric: not to be taken literally. I assumed you would see that. But with hindsight I suppose it was too harsh, whether sarcastic or not. So my apology for that and I will remove it. But my replies were referring to your one-line dismissal of anything whatsoever I might say about abortion, simply because I am a male.<\/p>\n You can\u2019t possibly hold to that as a thinker (in my opinion) if you ponder it very long at all. It would require all of us to never render or be able to hold an opinion about anything that we haven\u2019t\u00a0personally experienced\u00a0<\/i>or are at least\u00a0capable<\/i>\u00a0of experiencing (many women have had no desire or need for an abortion even though they all have wombs).<\/p>\n And that\u2019s simply an absurd position.<\/p>\n Unless you can become pregnant, unless you can incubate another being inside your own body, unless your body can birth this other being, then your opinions about this are rather facile.<\/span><\/p>\n Education<\/i>\u00a0merely tells us that woman can become pregnant.\u00a0Wisdom<\/i>\u00a0tells women how to avoid or void unwanted pregnancy.<\/span><\/p>\n The fact remains that abortion involves another human being, with DNA just as all of us have, and possessing everything he or she needs to become as you or I, if simply given time and a chance to live in this world. And that is something I must speak up about. The fact that I am a man is absolutely irrelevant to the question of whether a preborn child is a human being and a person, and whether they have an inherent right to life.<\/p>\n You started out saying that I can\u2019t \u201cpontificate on pregnancy\u201d<\/span> because I don\u2019t have a uterus, and now you say I am your \u201cconversational partner\u201d<\/span>? Which is<\/em> it? Those two contradict. I\u2019d love to have an \u201chonest debate\u201d<\/span> just as you say you do (now), but since I am a guy we can\u2019t discuss abortion, according to you . . .<\/p>\n If you\u2019d like to discuss something else besides abortion (something that men are allowed to consider and comment upon [thank you] ), please let me know. I have no problem on my end getting along with and dialoguing with anyone. But it takes two.<\/p>\n *<\/p>\n \u2026 It would require all of us to never render or be able to hold an opinion about anything that we haven\u2019t personally experienced or are at least capable of experiencing (many women have had no desire or need for an abortion even though they all have wombs).<\/i><\/p>\n And that\u2019s simply an absurd position\u2026.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Dave, I\u2019m tempted to agree. <\/span><\/p>\n Great!<\/p>\n But \u2026<\/span><\/p>\n After all, I\u2019m not a gun-owner, nor have I kids in schools, yet I consider it okay to opine in general about the issue of school shootings. Still, I\u2019m careful to limit what I say to what\u00a0I think\u00a0<\/i>I know. Nor am I an epidemiologist, but feel fairly confident in trusting what experts say about the pandemic. I\u2019m not a vegan, yet I\u2019ve always been careful about food I served at (pre-pandemic) house parties.<\/span><\/p>\n So you concede that people can speak about things they haven\u2019t experienced and can\u2019t personally experience, up to a\u00a0point<\/i>\u00a0. . . Then of course it is to be determined what that point\u00a0is<\/i>\u00a0. . . And that\u2019s not so easy, either. Better to simply say, \u201cshut up about things you know\u00a0little or nothing<\/i>\u00a0about [irregardless of gender and experience] but feel free to render an opinion on stuff you\u00a0do<\/i>\u00a0know a little but about.\u201d In other words, make the determination of when and how to speak, knowledge<\/em> rather than simply gender<\/em> and personal experience<\/em>.<\/p>\n Just how much men can know<\/em> about women and their problems: as well as how much we can be very strongly affected<\/em> by them in their own lives (and even how we can provide practical help), is what I hope to express in my reply to your next section.<\/p>\n I bled monthly, if irregularly, for about 35 years. Cramps. Pads or tampons. That was my reality. Do you even try to understand this? Some of my friends had such bad menstrual experiences that they needed to take off from work & just crumple up in bed for a day or two. Menstruation is harsh. So is pregnancy. So is birthing.<\/span><\/p>\n Meanwhile, impregnating a woman is rather easy: A 10-minute wham, bamm, thank you ma\u2019m.<\/span><\/p>\n Since you asked me personally, yes, I do try my best to understand the immense frustrations and sufferings fertile women go through every month. I understand that many (most?) men don\u2019t do very well, and I abhor that with you.<\/p>\n I helped my wife (now 62 as I am) to not ever have hot flashes<\/em>, and to experience a very mild menopause<\/em> indeed, through a few well-known herbal supplements. That\u2019s not a small thing. I sympathized, acted upon it, and solved it. I have an article about it<\/a>, that has been up on my website for almost 14 years.<\/p>\n Some of those same supplements are very helpful during pregnancy as well.<\/p>\n My wife has had six miscarriages and very difficult pregnancies (we have four children). Do you think that doesn\u2019t affect the husband, too? Those were also my<\/em> children. In a happy marriage (as we have) each partner intensely feels the pain of the other, and longs to do something about it.<\/p>\n My wife also had an extremely serious post-partum depression after our second child in 1993 (at points almost suicidal). Have you ever lived with a person who is in serious depression, for years on end? I have with many family members. It\u2019s no bed of roses. Yes, of course, they are suffering the most<\/em>, but it doesn\u2019t follow that loved ones around them do not suffer a great deal<\/em>, too. And with depression I have experienced it firsthand. I went through a hellish, existential deep clinical depression for six months in 1977: the worst year of my life (age 18-19). So I know both ends of it.<\/p>\n And in my wife\u2019s case (an even-tempered, easy-going person not \u2014 like myself \u2014 prone at all to depression otherwise) I solved her problem, after seven miserable years of taking Zoloft, with very undesirable side effects. My wife became like a different person. That drug \u2014 though it does help many, too \u2014 too often \u201cemotionally flattens\u201d people and makes them almost \u201czombie-like.\u201d She looks back at pictures and videos during that time and it frightens and saddens her.<\/p>\n I solved the problem by a simple regimen of amino acids<\/a> (which she has now successfully taken for over 20 years). We consulted our doctor and he agreed that we could and should give it a try. And it worked great, and almost immediately. So I did what the doctors couldn\u2019t figure out for seven years (and our doctor was a great guy). Here is what she takes, which I have made available<\/a>, so it may help many others as well.\u00a0More recently, I provided much scientific support for the efficacy of tyrosine regarding depression<\/a>: one of the supplements she takes.<\/p>\n I also helped my mother (then in her 80s) to stop having hallucinations and shaking that was actually diagnosed as Parkinson\u2019s. By study on the Internet I figured out that she was having adverse drug interactions (which amounted to gross incompetence on the part of her doctors). My sister and I helped her to \u201cwean off\u201d of about eight drugs she was taking (many of which clashed: and anyone could quickly determine that on medical sites).<\/p>\n The symptoms vanished and the doctor reversed her diagnosis. I could have easily sued them for malpractice, but I don\u2019t do that. So once again, the doctors had my mother in a miserable, misdiagnosed state, and little old me, by doing Internet research, completely eliminated her problem. I love doctors and conventional medicine, but they are by no means infallible. Believe me, I know.<\/p>\n You can say \u201cmen have no idea how difficult menstruation is.\u201d<\/span> That\u2019s true, yet we can certainly learn much about it through observation and desire to help females in our lives get through it, as best we can. It\u2019s not like we\u2019re totally in the dark about these things. All of us have suffering to go through in one way or another.<\/p>\n I think everyone should make an effort to understand and try to help everyone\u2019s problems, as much as possible, regardless of gender and other categories that often unnecessarily separate people from each other. We all have our crosses to bear. Love demands this, and as Christians we are commanded to love all people and share in the sufferings of at least those closest to us, or whoever we happen to be with at the moment.<\/p>\n *<\/p>\n Hey, & thanks again, sincerely, for a \u201ccollegial\u201d reply. <\/span><\/p>\n You\u2019re welcome and my pleasure. Thanks for your amiable reply. I\u2019m enjoying this on a Saturday afternoon, all by myself here at the moment.<\/p>\n It\u2019s unfair that I\u2019m inflicting my present catharsis on you, personally, <\/span><\/p>\n It happens a lot and I understand. It\u2019s a small negative compared to achieving that rarest of things anymore: a dialogue.<\/p>\n but I do blame apologists for much of Christianity\u2019s present troubles. <\/span><\/p>\n All we\u2019re doing is\u00a0defending<\/i>\u00a0things that we didn\u2019t\u00a0establish<\/i>. We do catch a lot of flak for taking stands on issues that we either defend or critique, which means that we will always (by this field\u2019s very nature) be saying that someone or something is wrong. People clearly don\u2019t\u00a0like<\/i>\u00a0that. And so apologists are too often treated with contempt or at least negativity in a way that, say,\u00a0baseball umpires<\/i>\u00a0are, because neither they nor we can please everyone.<\/p>\n I hold strong that organizations, like individuals, need to adopt a self-critical stance if they are to be honest.<\/span><\/p>\n Absolutely. Jesus expressed this in His teaching about seeing a speck in someone else\u2019s eye while ignoring the log in our own. I f I hadn\u2019t done that I could have never changed from evangelical Protestant to Catholic, or pagan practical atheist to evangelical, or political liberal to conservative, or social liberal to moral traditionalist (and many other changes).<\/p>\n You know, I sometimes (since I don\u2019t dwell on it, not too often) just tire of being female in a male world, <\/span><\/p>\n I think I can understand that, too (despite being hampered by being a lowly male). Men have (very often) treated women abominably.<\/p>\n with a nominally male God supposedly overseeing the injustices \u201che\u201d created. <\/span><\/p>\n God also has very typically feminine characteristics, as I have written about<\/a>.<\/p>\n Males throughout history wrote the rules we\u2019re all \u2014 women & men \u2014 demanded to follow. <\/span><\/p>\n I agree in general. But I don\u2019t agree with your indictment of Catholicism itself on this score.<\/p>\n And please, before you write this off as \u201cfeminist\u201d nonsense or tirade, consider the pope\u2019s recent proclamation that \u2014 wow! \u2014 females can now be\u00a0lectors<\/i>, \u2026 though never priests or even deacons, of course.<\/span><\/p>\n Well, you presuppose here that differences in roles inherently<\/em>\u00a0imply some kind of essential inequality<\/em>. This is untrue. See:<\/p>\n Is Catholic Male-Only Priesthood Inherently Sexist?<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n