{"id":56906,"date":"2021-05-17T09:52:28","date_gmt":"2021-05-17T13:52:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=56906"},"modified":"2021-05-17T09:52:28","modified_gmt":"2021-05-17T13:52:28","slug":"veneration-of-saints-god-in-and-through-st-paul","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/05\/veneration-of-saints-god-in-and-through-st-paul.html","title":{"rendered":"Veneration of Saints: God “In” and “Through” St. Paul"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>
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<\/div>\n
[see book and purchase information<\/a>]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
[originally posted on 5-17-13 on Facebook; expanded slightly on 5-17-21]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
*****<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
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This may be a \u201cnew\u201d biblical argument for the veneration of saints.<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
If St. Paul is saying that all of these things \u201cin\u201d or \u201cthrough\u201d him were because of Christ, and others see that \u201cin\u201d or \u201cthrough\u201d him; does it not follow that he could be venerated, precisely because of what was \u201cin \/ through him,\u201d then observed by others, to their edification? The Catholic doctrine of veneration is, after all, honoring a creature because he or she profoundly reflects the grace and love and other attributes of God.<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
I think it\u2019s a little weak and a merely deductive proof to some extent, but I believe that it does work on some level, especially because elsewhere, many times, Paul urges his followers to \u201cimitate\u201d him<\/a>, as he in turn imitated Jesus Christ. I\u2019ve used that as one argument for veneration for many years and it fits in nicely with this argument, in my opinion. What do you think?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Romans 15:18<\/strong> (RSV) For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has wrought through me<\/span> to win obedience from the Gentiles, by word and deed,<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n
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1 Corinthians 3:5<\/strong> What then is Apol\u2019los? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed<\/span>, as the Lord assigned to each.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
2 Corinthians 2:14<\/strong> But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumph, and through<\/span> us<\/span> spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
2 Corinthians 5:20<\/strong> So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us<\/span>. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (cf. Acts 2:43: \u201cAnd fear came upon every soul; and many wonders and signs were done\u00a0<\/b>through the apostles<\/span>.\u201d)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
2 Corinthians 11:10<\/strong> As the truth of Christ is in me<\/span>, this boast of mine shall not be silenced in the regions of Acha\u2019ia.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
2 Corinthians 13:3<\/strong> . . . Christ is speaking in me<\/span> . . .<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
Galatians 2:8<\/strong> (for he who worked through Peter<\/span> for the mission to the circumcised worked through me also<\/span> for the Gentiles),<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
Galatians 2:20<\/strong> I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me<\/span>; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
Philippians 1:26<\/strong> so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus<\/span>, because of my coming to you again.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
Philippians 4:9<\/strong> What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me<\/span>, do; and the God of peace will be with you.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n
1 Timothy 1:16<\/strong> but I received mercy for this reason, that in me<\/span>, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience for an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
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Titus 1:3<\/strong> and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching<\/span> with which I have been entrusted<\/span> by command of God our Savior; (cf. Hosea 12:10: \u201cI spoke to the prophets; . . .\u00a0and through the prophets<\/span> gave parables.\u201d)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Related Reading<\/span><\/strong><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
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Is Mary Worshiped by Catholics?<\/a>\u00a0[3-8-99]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
The Imitation of St. Paul & the Veneration of Saints<\/a>\u00a0[2004]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Veneration of Saints and Its Doctrinal Development: Dialogue with an Inquiring Baptist\u00a0<\/a>[12-1-08]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Bible: God Shares Glory with His Creatures<\/a>\u00a0[1-3-10]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Blasphemy Against Creatures & Things (Not Just Against God: A Biblical Exposition)<\/a>\u00a0[11-30-11]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Bible on Veneration of Saints & Angels: John Calvin\u2019s Antipathy to Veneration of Saints and Angels vs. Explicit Biblical Evidences of Same<\/a>\u00a0[10-1-12]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Biblical Evidence for Veneration of Saints\u00a0<\/a>[2013]
\n*
\nVeneration of & Bowing Before an Angel (Joshua 5:13-15)<\/a>\u00a0[9-7-13]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Venerating & Bowing Before Angels & Men: Biblical?<\/a>\u00a0[11-10-14]
\n*<\/div>\n
Martin Luther\u2019s Espousal of the Veneration of Saints\u00a0<\/a>[11-11-14]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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New (?) Analogical Biblical Argument for Veneration of the Saints and Angels from the Prohibition\u00a0of Blasphemy of the Same\u00a0<\/a>\u00a0[8-8-15]
\n*<\/div>\n
Bible on the Veneration of Angels & Men<\/a>\u00a0[9-10-15]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
\u201cArmstrong vs. Geisler\u201d #8: Veneration; Bowing to Creatures<\/a>\u00a0[3-2-17]
\n*<\/div>\n
The Veneration of Angels and Men is Biblical<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 8-24-17]Biblical Evidence for Veneration of Saints and Images<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 10-23-18]\n<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Veneration of Human Beings: Seven Biblical Examples (Apostles Paul and Silas, Kings David and Saul, Prophets Daniel and Samuel, Patriarch Joseph)<\/a>\u00a0[3-4-19]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Angel Gabriel\u2019s \u201cHail\u201d (Lk 1:28): Veneration of Mary?<\/a>\u00a0[3-8-19]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
***<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Summary<\/em>:\u00a0If God was working \u201cin\u201d and \u201cthrough\u201d St. Paul and others such as St. Peter and the prophets (many passages), is this not a possible biblical argument for the veneration of saints?
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[see book and purchase information] * [originally posted on 5-17-13 on Facebook; expanded slightly on 5-17-21] * ***** * This may be a \u201cnew\u201d biblical argument for the veneration of saints. * If St. Paul is saying that all of these things \u201cin\u201d or \u201cthrough\u201d him were because of Christ, and others see that \u201cin\u201d […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":56909,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[206],"tags":[201,511,2674,2673,510,265,263],"class_list":["post-56906","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saints-purgatory-penance","tag-communion-of-saints","tag-honor","tag-honoring-of-saints","tag-imitation-of-saints","tag-veneration","tag-veneration-of-angels","tag-veneration-of-saints"],"yoast_head":"\nVeneration of Saints: God "In" and "Through" St. Paul Veneration of Saints: God 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56906","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=56906"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56906\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/56909"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=56906"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=56906"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=56906"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}