{"id":5803,"date":"2016-01-26T17:22:51","date_gmt":"2016-01-26T21:22:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=5803"},"modified":"2017-03-29T13:31:11","modified_gmt":"2017-03-29T17:31:11","slug":"defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html","title":{"rendered":"Defense of My &#8220;Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/01\/DogChasingTail2.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-5804 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/01\/DogChasingTail2.jpg\" alt=\"DogChasingTail2\" width=\"640\" height=\"853\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Defending <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> is rather like a dog chasing his tail. Either he never catches it, or if he does, it hurts and is not nearly as much fun or fulfilling as he thought it would be. Photo by \u201cLil Shepherd\u201d: 16 May 2012<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/lilshepherd\/7209126530\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Flickr<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/2.0\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">CC BY 2.0<\/a> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">license]<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">* * *<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/quick-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura-2.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Quick Ten-Step Refutation of <em>Sola Scriptura<\/em><\/span><\/a> <\/span>is a paper of mine from 2003. I recently posted it in a large Facebook theological group. A Protestant named <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/milan.lorinc.5?fref=ufi\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Milan Lorinc<\/a><\/span> took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points. This is my counter-reply. He gave me full permission to cite his words, which will be in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">* * * * *<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Now, before I begin, it\u2019s very important for all who read this to understand exactly what it<em> is<\/em> that we are debating. <em>Sola Scriptura<\/em> is <em>not<\/em> the belief that Scripture is revelation from God and as such, a supreme, inspired authority. All Christians agree on <em>that<\/em>, so there is no need to debate it. Rather, it means that<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/02\/on-definition-of-sola-scriptura-and.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Scripture is the <strong><em>only<\/em><\/strong> infallible, binding authority<\/a>. <span style=\"color: #000000;\">That means that neither the Church nor sacred tradition are infallible, as Catholics and Orthodox believe. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Almost always in these discussions (I\u2019ve literally engaged in this debate well over a hundred times now), Protestants garner tons of biblical indications that Scripture is inspired and infallible, which is fine and dandy, but utterly<em> irrelevant<\/em> to <em>this<\/em> debate, because all observant, historic Christians agree on that!\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The burden on the Protestant \u2014 in establishing and defending <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> \u2014 is always to prove from Scripture that only Scripture is infallible and that it only is the final and binding authority for the Christian. At the same time, it logically follows that they have to prove that the Church and sacred tradition are <\/span><strong style=\"color: #000000;\"><em>not<\/em><\/strong><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u00a0such authorities.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Likewise, when the Catholic shows that either\u00a0the Church\u00a0or sacred tradition are <i>presented<\/i>\u00a0as binding \/ infallible authorities in Scripture, it is in turn a direct refutation of<em> sola Scriptura<\/em>. I will demonstrate over and over again that what my opponent produces as supposed \u201cproofs\u201d of <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>\u00a0are actually no proofs at all; and they are not because of what I just noted above. Once again, readers must always keep this introduction in mind, because it is routinely misunderstood by those who attempt to defend <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">As the author of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2011\/07\/books-by-dave-armstrong-150-biblical.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">not just one<\/a>, but <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2012\/09\/books-by-dave-armstrong-pillars-of-sola.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><em>two<\/em> books<\/a> on this very topic, I\u2019m very familiar with it. I\u2019ve written about it far more than any other topic, in my 25 years of Catholic apologetics. And I have taken on not only the leading historic defenders of the doctrine, but the leading champions of it today as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I hope you enjoy the debate!<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">1. Sola Scriptura is Not Taught in the Bible\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Author of article Dave Armstrong is technically right about it\u2026 These 2 words SOLA SCRIPTURA, or SCRIPTURE ALONE cannot be explicitly found in Old nor New Testament. How could they be, if they were for first time articulated in 16. century by Reformers as one of more formal principles of Reformation (SOLA SCRIPTURA altogether with other SOLA: SOLA CHRISTI- CHRIST ALONE, SOLA GRATIA \u2013 GRACE ALONE and SOLA FIDE \u2013 FAITH ALONE.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The debate is not about those mere <em>words<\/em> being present or not (whether together or indirectly deduced), but about the <em>concept<\/em> or idea of <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>. Is it taught in the Bible? I say no; my opponent says yes. I say that not only these sloganistic words, but also the idea, were novel and corrupt innovations that came about 16 centuries after Christ. They were taught neither in the Bible, nor by the apostles, nor by the Church fathers. There was a TV soup commercial (about vegetable soup, as I recall) which highlighted the observation regarding the ingredients: \u201cIt\u2019s<em> in<\/em> there!\u201d Well, in this case, <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> is <em>not<\/em>\u00a0\u201cin there\u201d (\u201cthere\u201d being Scripture).<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">However formal sufficiency or formal Authority of Scriptures is in the CORE of Jesus\u2019s and of apostolical teaching. First Christians had Scriptures as their Supreme authority..<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Yes they did; so do we. But they also had the Church and sacred, apostolic tradition as supreme authorities. In fact, the New Testament was not even determined yet, and would not be for another 350 years or so. Thus, the first Christians could not be sure what was an inspired New testament book and what wasn\u2019t. Some thought books were inspired that we don\u2019t think are inspired today. Others denied that New Testament books (that we accept today; and the biblical canon came from Church authority). I wrote in this section 1 of my paper being critiqued:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Scripture certainly is a \u201cstandard of truth\u201d (we agree fully with Protestants), even the preeminent one, but\u00a0<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">not\u00a0<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">in a sense that rules out the binding authority of authentic apostolic Tradition and the Church. The Bible doesn\u2019t teach that. Catholics agree with Protestants that Scripture is\u00a0<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">materially sufficient<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. In other words, every true doctrine can be found in the Bible, if only implicitly and indirectly by deduction. But no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the\u00a0<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">formal authority<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u00a0or\u00a0<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">Rule of Faith\u00a0<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">for the Christian (<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">formal sufficiency<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">), in isolation from the Church and Apostolic Tradition.\u00a0<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">Sola Scriptura<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u00a0can\u2019t even be\u00a0<\/span><i style=\"color: #000000;\">deduced\u00a0<\/i><span style=\"color: #000000;\">from implicit passages.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Whilst term SOLA SCRIPTURA \u2013 Scripture alone isn\u2019t in Bible, Supreme position of Written Word of God IS IN THE BIBLE. JESUS AND APOSTLES TAUGHT IT !!!\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">No they didn\u2019t, and I will repeatedly show how this characterization is inaccurate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Let\u2019s start with Mark 7,1-20 where Jesus and His disciples are challenged by devout Pharisees for not observing washing \u2013 hands- rule. This is the first evidence that Jesus hadn\u2019t role of religious tradition and of Jewish Holy Scriptures on the same level as of equal authoritative sources of religious life in Judaism.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Jesus\u2019s harsh criticism of putting tradition of elders and Scriptures on the same level of authoritativeness is expressed in His words: \u201d Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, `This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. In vain they worship me, teaching doctrines which are nothing but the commandments of men \u201d And then Jesus gave particular example of breaking Written Commandment of Moses Law : \u201d For Moses said, \u2018Honor your father and your mother;\u2019 and, \u2018He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.\u2019\u201d Religious tradition set up against this commandment of Moses Law the rule that \u201d But you say, `If a man tells his father or his mother, \u201cWhatever profit you might have received from me is the gift, given to God;\u201d\u2019 12 then you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother,\u201d<br>\nThus Pharisees made Written God\u2019s Word NULL AND VOID for the sake of observance of religious tradition of Jewish elders. THE SAME WAY CATHOLIC CHURCH MADE NULL AND VOID HOLY SCRIPTURES FOR THE SAKE OF OBSERVANCE OF CATHOLIC TRADITION..!!!<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This is an old and tired Protestant polemic. Supposedly, Jesus opposes all previous Jewish tradition. In point of fact, this is not true at all. Jesus followed Pharisaical traditions Himself.\u00a0He adopted the Pharisaical stand on controversial issues (Mt 5:18-19, Lk 16:17), accepted the oral tradition of the academies, including observing the Sabbath, and priestly regulations (Mt 8:4, Mk 1:44, Lk 5:4). He worshiped in the synagogues and the temple. The apostle Paul called himself a Pharisee twice (Acts 23:6 and 26:5).\u00a0Jesus expressly stated that He was not removing anything in the Law:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 5:17-19<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cThink not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.\u00a0[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.\u00a0[19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">He also told His disciples to follow the Pharisees\u2019 teaching even though they may be hypocrites:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><strong>Matthew 23:2-3<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u201cThe scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses\u2019 seat;\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>3<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">In Mark 7, Jesus is criticizing legalism, spiritual pride, lack of wholehearted devotion, and hypocrisy, <em>not<\/em> tradition itself. I wrote about<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/bible-on-wholehearted-formal-worship.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">similar themes <\/a><span style=\"color: #000000;\">recently. But for many Protestants, \u201ctradition\u201d in the Bible is a \u201cdirty word.\u201d This is simply not true. There are<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/10\/biblical-evidence-for-true-apostolic-tradition-2.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">good, apostolic traditions and bad traditions<\/a>.\u00a0A close reading of passages such as Matthew 15:3-9 and Mark 7: 8-13 will reveal that Jesus only condemned corrupt traditions of men, not tradition per se. He uses qualifying phrases like \u201c<em>your<\/em> tradition,\u201d \u201ccommandments <em>of men<\/em>,\u201d \u201ctradition <em>of men<\/em>,\u201d as opposed to \u201cthe commandment <em>of God<\/em>.\u201d St. Paul draws precisely the same contrast in Colossians 2:8: \u201cBeware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.\u201d Paul uses the word \u201ctradition\u201d in a wholly positive and authoritative sense in 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 3:6.<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/biblical-evidence-for-apostolic-oral-tradition-2.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Oral tradition<\/a>\u00a0<\/span>is also massively indicated in the New Testament.<br>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Let\u2019s get to other texts showing that Jewish Scriptures were Supreme Authority for Jesus..<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Jesus\u2019s key role of Saviour and Redeemer from Sin has been designed from everlasting and Holy Spirit put it as program for Jesus through the writers of Old Testament writings..From all statements where Jesus predicted His torture, crucifixion death and resurrection is evident that Jesus pointed to SCRIPTURES AND NOT TO RELIGIOUS TRADITION of Judaism.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This proves nothing to the point. All it proves is that Scripture has messianic prophecies that were fulfilled. Of course . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201dBehold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all the things that are WRITTEN THROUGH THE PROPHETS concerning the Son of Man will be completed.\u201d(Luke 18,31) and \u201d Didn\u2019t the Christ have to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201d27 Beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he explained to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.\u201d(Luke 24,27) Also see Luke 22,37;Mat 26,24;26,54<br>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Although we don\u2019t see in Gospels specific term SCRIPTURES, often we can find words MOSES (TORAH), PROPHETS, WRITINGS which in Hebrew thinking means three-folded partition of Jewish Bible. So although Gospel writers sometimes mention only prophets, or Moses and Prophets that in another words means SCRIPTURES\u2026 Also statement: \u201dit is written \u201d points to the Supreme role of Scriptures as Rule of faith<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Yes of course. But none of this shows that it is the <em>only<\/em> authority.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[Milan then provided many more examples of messianic prophecies, which are irrelevant to the point under dispute, as explained]<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Jesus fought against Devil not with Jewish religious tradition, but He used Scriptural commands to tackle tempting Satan\u2026Three times Jesus answered Satan\u2019s seduction with verse of Scripture showing that Jesus is fully surrendered under Scriptural Authority and so shall be Satan\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">On many occasions Jesus countered his opponents in theological debates with Scriptures proving that they thoroughly miss fundamental thing \u2013 obedience of Written Word of God whilst they tried hardest for full obedience of their religious tradition. Let me give a few examples:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">We can see in John 5 as Jesus healed paralyzed man lying at Bethesda lake. According to Pharisees Jesus broke commandment on Sabbat observance on many instances because He dared to heal people (see also John 9; Luke 6,6-11, Luke 13,10-17) .. What was for Pharisees prohibited Shabbat work, for Jesus that was necessity of the human healing is not lesser than the loosing ox or ass from the stall and to lead them to the water to drink everyday even during Sabbath (Luke 13,15-16) and if people are circumcised even on Sabbath so that Mose\u2019s Law could be observed why Pharisees are crossed with Jesus as he healed whole personality (John 7,22-23).<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Some of very devout Pharisaic Jews have been ultimately irritated and outraged by this Jesus\u2019s \u2018behavior\u2019 as they declared about Jesus: \u201cThis man is not from God, because he doesn\u2019t keep the Sabbath.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">None of this proves<em> sola Scriptura<\/em>, either. Milan is following the same old playbook, based on these basic logical fallacies. Jesus did observe the Sabbath. He is making a point about how we observe it, not whether we should or not. Later, the Church decided that the Lord\u2019s Day (Sunday) would be, in effect, the new development of Sabbatarianism.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">However Jesus was obedient observant of Mose\u2019s Torah commandment. He only refuted and turned upside down man \u2013 made ideas and imaginations of Pharisees which were \u201dholy tradition\u201d for his opponents.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Yes! We agree on that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[he gives more off-topic examples of Jesus\u2019 opposition to corrupt traditions]<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I have already mentioned Mark 7,1 ff where religious tradition of washing hands and of all other things has been exalted to be Divine command. Jesus evidently refused to comply these man-made traditions and definitely refused them to have same authoritative position in religion as Written Word of God.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Exactly! Jesus opposed man-made, corrupt traditions. He did not oppose \u00a0true traditions, including oral traditions. The question for Him is not \u201cScripture vs. tradition\u201d but rather, \u201ctrue traditions (including Scripture) vs. false, man-made traditions.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">. . .\u00a0But formal sufficiency of Bible as Supreme Authority is there and Jesus purposefully taught it\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This was not shown to the slightest degree in his arguments thus far . . . I\u2019ve already noted that Jesus told His followers to observe the teachings from the Pharisees, based on their authority as occupying \u201cMoses\u2019 seat\u201d (a notion which is not in the Old Testament).<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u00a0<span data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">2. \u201cWord of God\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">Dave Armstrong of is right about this point but only from one point of view. Let me give another point of view:\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">For Jesus were commandments of Scriptures as true expression of God\u2019s Word. As rich young man asked Him on matters of Salvation and eternal life (Matt 19,16ff), Jesus pointed him to the commands of Scriptures, not to tradition. The same thing Jesus told Pharisees (22,34-40)<br>\nSadducees which wanted to ridicule Jesus and His teaching on resurrection Jesus rebuked of being in delusion.. \u201dyou are in delusion because you don\u2019t know Scriptures nor God\u2019s power\u201d(Matt 22,29)\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The Sadducees denied oral tradition, whereas Jesus and the early Church accepted it. The inter-testamental traditions included teachings on the afterlife and angels, which were not explicit in the Old Testament. I showed in another section how Jesus accepted the authority of non-biblical oral traditions. I\u2019ve already made note of one: \u201cMoses\u2019 seat.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">For good spiritual health and well-being is crucial: 1. To know Scriptures, obey Written Word of God\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Yes it is, but there is no disagreement here.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">2. To know God\u2019s Power<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">On the contrary ignorance, disobedience of Written Word of God or deliberate rebellion against Scriptural Authority is pathway to delusion and heresy. Catholic Church is in same delusion as Saducees were because Scriptures aren\u2019t her Supreme Authority and people in CC aren\u2019t deliberately led to feed themselves with GOD\u2019s WORD through daily reading and meditation. They aren\u2019t lead either to surrender every part of their lives under Rulership of Scriptural Command..And Catholics may be opened to the supernatural Work of the Holy Spirit, but without being complied to the REGULA FIDEI of Scriptural Authority, they are like man who has only one leg. And only by supernatural miracle of God can get both legs, so Catholics can get too, if they fully submit their lives under Governance of Bible..<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Catholics respect the Bible as much as Protestants do. It<em> is<\/em> our supreme authority. We simply say that it has to be interpreted within the framework of historic, apostolic tradition and the guidance of the Church. This had always been the case, even in Old Testament times. In Nehemiah 8, there was a big event in which the Bible was read to the people. But the text doesn\u2019t say that they understood it simply by hearing it. Rather, it states:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\"><strong>Nehemiah 8:7-8\u00a0<\/strong><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Also Jesh\u2019ua, Bani, Sherebi\u2019ah, Jamin, Akkub, Shab\u2019bethai, Hodi\u2019ah, Ma-asei\u2019ah, Keli\u2019ta, Azari\u2019ah, Jo\u2019zabad, Hanan, Pelai\u2019ah, the Levites, <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>helped the people to understand the law<\/em><\/span>, while the people remained in their places.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>8<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] And they read from the book, from the law of God, clearly; and they gave the sense, so that the people <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>understood<\/em><\/span> the reading.\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">It\u2019s the same in the New Testament. We have the story of the Ethiopian eunuch, seeking to understand the Bible:<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\"><br>\n<strong>Acts 8:27-31<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">And he rose and went. And behold, an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a minister of the Can\u2019dace, queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of all her treasure, had come to Jerusalem to worship\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>28<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] and was returning; seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>29<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] And the Spirit said to Philip, \u201cGo up and join this chariot.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>30<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, \u201c<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>Do you understand what you are reading?<\/em><\/span>\u201d\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>31<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] And he said, \u201c<em><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">How can I, unless some one guides me?<\/span><\/em>\u201d And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">Milan mentioned the messianic prophecies. But these weren\u2019t understood merely by reading them, either. Thus, we see in the story of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, that they completely missed it, and that the risen Jesus had to directly help them interpret and understand them:<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\"><br>\n<strong>Luke 24:25-27, 32<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">And he said to them, \u201cO foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>26<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?\u201d\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>27<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] And beginning with Moses and all the prophets,<em><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself<\/span><\/em>. . . . [32]\u00a0They said to each other, \u201cDid not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while <em><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">he opened to us the scriptures<\/span><\/em>?\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s <em>always<\/em> been like this, and this is how the Bible presents itself: it\u2019s the inspired revelation, that has to be <strong><em>authoritatively interpreted<\/em> <\/strong>in order to be properly understood, within a framework of doctrinal, creedal, confessional orthodoxy. This is how we Catholics look at the matter: precisely <em>as Scripture itself<\/em> does: one needs authoritative interpretation. Precisely because Protestants <em>don\u2019t<\/em> believe this, they are hopelessly self-contradictory and have many hundreds of competing denominations, with contradictions (therefore, falsehood and error) all over the place. That\u2019s the fruit of the false doctrine of \u201cevery man reading the Scripture without any necessary guidance, to find all of Christian truth.\u201d Right . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">Jesus during Jewish feast declared: if anyone believes in me AS SCRIPTURE SAY rivers of living water will flow from inside of him\u201d(John 7,38)..<br>\nDave Armstrong, and another Catholics, you can believe in God\u2019s Word in Catholic Tradition, you can believe in Jesus as Catholic Church say, but no rivers of living water will flow!!! Only those shall be fulfilled with life-giving stream of God\u2019s Holy life who believe in Jesus AS SCRIPTURE SAY!!!!<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">I have just shown what Scripture says. It had to be authoritatively interpreted for readers: by the Levites in the old covenant: teaching authorities, by the apostle Philip, and by Jesus Himself in the story of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. St. Peter also notes that some teachings in St. Paul were hard to understand, so that people developed false doctrines from them:<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left; padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\"><br>\n<strong>2 Peter 3:15-17<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>16<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>There are some things in them hard to understand<\/em><\/span>, which the ignorant and unstable<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em> twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures<\/em><\/span>.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<\/span>17<span style=\"color: #000000;\">] You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #141823;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\"><br>\n<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">For apostle Paul have been Scriptures the same Supreme authority as for Jesus. He himself declared principle: \u201d and let no one go beyond of what is WRITTEN\u201d (1 Corinthians 4,6)<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">For Him just as for Jesus were Scriptures genuine revelation of God\u2019s Word.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Yep, Scripture is revelation. No one denies it. I answered the argument from 1 Corinthians 4:6 in my first book,<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/books-by-dave-armstrong-biblical.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><em>A Biblical Defense of Catholicism<\/em><\/a>:<\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><b>1 Corinthians 4:6<\/b><i><b> <\/b><\/i><i> . . . that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favour of one against another.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The clause emphasized above, which is used as a proof for <i>sola Scriptura,<\/i> is thought to be difficult in the Greek, so much so that one Protestant translator, James Moffatt, considered it beyond recovery and refused to translate it! Yet the meaning seems fairly clear when the whole context is taken into consideration (at the very least verses 3-6). This basic principle of biblical interpretation (context) is often neglected, even by good scholars, presumably due to presuppositional bias. For example, the great evangelical theologian G.K Berkouwer, who writes many insightful and edifying things about Scripture, falls prey to this tendency repeatedly, in using this <i>portion <\/i>of a verse to imply the notion of <i>sola Scriptura,<\/i> in his magnum opus on Scripture.<sup><a class=\"sdfootnoteanc decorated-link\" href=\"#sdfootnote1sym\" name=\"sdfootnote1anc\" target=\"_blank\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><sup>1<\/sup><\/span><\/a>2<\/sup><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><a name=\"p25\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><\/a> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">One simply has to read the phrase following the \u201cproof text\u201d to see what it is to which St. Paul is referring. The whole passage is an <i>ethical exhortation<\/i> to avoid pride, arrogance and favoritism, and as such, has nothing to do with the idea of the Bible and the written word as some sort of all-encompassing standard of authority over against the Church. St. Paul\u2019s teaching elsewhere (as just examined) precludes such an interpretation anyway. One of the foundational tenets of Protestant hermeneutics is to interpret less clear, obscure portions of Scripture by means of more clear, related passages.<sup><a class=\"sdfootnoteanc decorated-link\" href=\"#sdfootnote2sym\" name=\"sdfootnote2anc\" target=\"_blank\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><sup>1<\/sup><\/span><\/a>3<\/sup> St. Paul is telling the Corinthians to observe the broad ethical precepts of the Old Testament (some translators render the above clause as <i>keep within the rules<\/i>), as indicated by his habitual phrase, <i>it is written,<\/i> which is always used to precede Old Testament citations throughout his letters. Assuming that he is referring to the Old Testament (the most straightforward interpretation), this would again prove too much, for he would not be including the entire New Testament, whose Canon was not even finally determined until 397 A.D.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">To summarize, then, 1 Corinthians 4:6 (that is, one part of the verse) fails as a proof text for <i>sola Scriptura<\/i> for at least three reasons:<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">1) The context is clearly one of <i>ethics.<\/i> We cannot transgress (<i>go beyond<\/i>) the precepts of Scripture concerning relationships. This doesn\u2019t forbid the discussion of ethics<i> outside<\/i> of Scripture (which itself cannot possibly treat every conceivable ethical dispute and dilemma);<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">2) The phrase does not even <i>necessarily <\/i>have to refer to <i>Scripture,<\/i> although this appears to be the majority opinion of scholars (with which I agree);<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">3) If <i>what is written<\/i> refers to Scripture, it certainly points to the Old Testament alone (obviously not the Protestant \u201crule of faith\u201d). Thus, this verse proves too much and too little simultaneously.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">All \u201cproof texts\u201d for <i>sola Scriptura <\/i>are demonstrably inadequate and run up against biblical (and Catholic) teachings of Tradition and Church, as well as the insuperable difficulty of the Canon of the Bible, and how it was determined (by the Catholic Church).<\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"sdfootnote1\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\" align=\"left\"><span style=\"font-size: small; color: #000000;\"><a class=\"sdfootnotesym decorated-link\" href=\"#sdfootnote1anc\" name=\"sdfootnote1sym\" target=\"_blank\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">1<\/span><\/a><sup>2<\/sup>Berkouwer, <i>ibid.,<\/i> 17,104-105,148.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"sdfootnote2\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\n<p class=\"western\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><a class=\"sdfootnotesym decorated-link\" href=\"#sdfootnote2anc\" name=\"sdfootnote2sym\" target=\"_blank\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">1<\/span><\/a><sup><span style=\"font-size: small;\">3<\/span><\/sup> <span style=\"font-size: small;\">See, e.g., <\/span><span style=\"font-size: small;\">Ramm, Bernard<\/span><span style=\"font-size: small;\">,<\/span><span style=\"font-size: small;\"><i> Protestant Biblical Interpretation,<\/i><\/span><span style=\"font-size: small;\"> Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 3rd ed., 1970, 104-106.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">3. Tradition is Not a Dirty Word<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In some aspects maybe not, but I shown above feature of religious tradition as one in fiercest opposition to the Supreme role of Scriptural authority.. Just as Jesus said, tradition breaks down written Word of God and nullify it\u2019s authority.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">And yes, there are traditions (on Mary ever-virginity, her sinlessness, or her assumption, mandatory celibacy of priests etc. which are thoroughly inconsistent with Bible and in no harmony with Scriptural\u00a0Authority) Catholic Church therefore must totally diminish Governance of Bible Authority so that these deceitful teachings could be adhered and observed.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Mandatory celibacy of priests is one perfect example, because apostle Paul explicitly warned future generations of Christians before false and deceitful Church leaders which shall hinder marry. However Catholic Church didn\u2019t recognized these heretical trends(of mandatory celibacy of priests) which Spanish priests tried to impose onto whole Church. Emperor Constantine fortunately halt these efforts, but 7 centuries later Pope Gregor VII enforced mandatory celibacy. He even torn apart existing marriages of priests despite Jesus\u2019s command \u201d What therefore God has joined together, don\u2019t let man tear apart\u201d Matt 19,6<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Thus God\u2019s Written Word had to be superseded by human schemes of Popes and clergy\u2026In that regard yeah, Church tradition is kinda dirty word for me too..It has bitter taste of the irreconcilable adversary against Authority of Scriptures\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Railing against stuff that one disagrees with in Catholic teaching is not disproving that there is a legitimate, authoritative, binding tradition in Scripture (which the <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> advocate must do). This \u201creply\u201d has zero interaction with my actual arguments. If that trend continues, I will cease responding, because ostensibly I am defending my paper, not dealing with 1,976,294 objections to Catholicism in this present endeavor. Yet, sadly, this is standard contra-Catholic and anti-Catholic methodology . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">4. Jesus and Paul Accepted Non-Biblical Oral and Written Traditions<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #333399;\">Apologist Dave Armstrong is completely wrong about Matt.2,23 It is really found in Isaiah 11,1just as Evangelist Matthew wrote that prophet said:<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #333399;\"> There is hebrew word \u05e0\u05b5\u0596\u05e6\u05b6\u05e8 (netzer) which means branch, shoot, sprout. This noun, coming from an Arabic root meaning \u201cto be fresh, bright, grown green, \u201d appears only four times in Bible.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This is a weak argument. \u00a0Serious commentators disagree as to interpretation (as can be seen in<a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/commentaries\/matthew\/2-23.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> this large collection <\/a>of exegetical commentaries), and many possibilities are bandied about, including vague references or saying that it is a vague allusion to writings of many prophets (rather than one passage, which proves my point), leading to the distinct possibility that it is not a direct reference to a particular passage in any Old Testament book, and\/or a reference\u00a0to some lost book, as St. John Chrysostom thought.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">So definitely not\u2026Jesus didn\u2019t appealed to Jewish tradition as to higher authority than Bible is. Surely text Matt 2,23 cannot be used to support this idea. These biblical instances used by Dave Armstrong aren\u2019t good. Pointing to Oral Torah, Rabbinical tradition, or Rabbinical interpretations of Jewish Bible not necessarily show the true relationship of Jesus and of Paul to the religious tradition\u2026 I already portrayed above the true relationship of Jesus to religious tradition.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">And I showed how it was a false and inaccurate and quite incomplete presentation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">Let me have a few words on Jesus\u2019s relationship to the religious authorities of Judaism. Jesus tried to maintain good relationships with all religious leaders, but not at the expense of revealed truth\u2026For example: i. As Jesus cleansed man of leprosy He sent him to the priests, which had also competence of medical authorities too to make medical search of people like that man. Man healed of leprosy should also bring the sacrificial gift commanded by Moses Law as testimony.(See Matt 8,4) Jesus respected this role of theirs and He didn\u2019t try to make any changes in societal order where He lived.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">ii. Jesus commanded to His disciples concerning Pharisees and scribes sitting at Moses see(position of the teaching authority) to \u201d do and observe everything what they would say you, but don\u2019t act according to their deeds, because they say, but don\u2019t do\u201d(Matt23,3)<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">Jesus respected their authority of religious teachers, \/as He said \u201ddo whatever they tell you..\/ although He called them \u201dbreed of vipers\u201d and \u201dsnakes\u201d Jesus has been aware that people need teaching authority,\u00a0but on other side Pharisees and scribes(theologians of Judaism) discredited themselves by hypocrisy, pride, worst motives for their ministry, twisting of Torah commandment to promote utterly irrelevant things whilst essential (love, mercy and righteousness and justice ) have been neglected..\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Our present dispute is about binding authority, not perfect sanctity. Jesus gave that to the Pharisees in Matthew 23:2. Whether they were hypocritical or not is irrelevant. We know that they were. But that didn\u2019t take away their authority. Jesus addressed that, by saying, \u201cdo and observe everything what they would say you, but don\u2019t act according to their deed.\u201d But he based their authority on a notion not found in the Old Testament (\u201cMoses\u2019 seat\u201d).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Apostles told to Jewish top authorities: \u201d Is it fair before God to obey you more than God??\u201d(Acts 4,19)\u2026I think this kind of attitude we can ascribe to Jesus too\u2026 Regarding these Paul\u2019s statements quoted by you: they don\u2019t prove true relationship of Paul to Jewish tradition. In fact I admit time to time I also take a look to the Rabbinical commentaries of Old Testament, which doesn\u2019t mean that I appeal to the Jewish tradition as authoritative source\u2026These commentaries are only one interpretation source of many\u2026 These 2 verses merely mean that Paul also used rabbinical commentaries, nothing more and nothing less. For many rabbinical Jews Jesus seems to be more \u201dJewish\u201d than Paul\u2026About Paul they confess that he founded completely different religion. So in relation to these 2 verses you quoted I\u2019m very skeptical to read your deduction on Paul\u2019s \u201dappeal to extrabiblical sources as of authority..<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Nice spin and rhetoric, but it doesn\u2019t overcome the fact that Paul authoritatively cites extrabiblical traditions. Here are my two passages that Milan wants to casually dismiss and do an end run around:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">In\u00a0<b>1 Corinthians 10:4<\/b>, St. Paul refers to a rock which \u201cfollowed\u201d the Jews through the Sinai wilderness. The Old Testament says nothing about such miraculous movement, in the related passages about Moses striking the rock to produce water (Exodus 17:1-7; Numbers 20:2-13). But rabbinic tradition does.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><b>2 Timothy 3:8<\/b>: \u201cAs Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses . . . \u201d These two men cannot be found in the related Old Testament passage (Exodus 7:8 ff.), or anywhere else in the Old Testament.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">1 Corinthians 10:4 is inspired Scripture. If it had been in line with Protestant thought, that would be highlighted, but since it isn\u2019t, Milan downplays its inspiration and wants his reader to believe that\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cThese commentaries are only one interpretation source of many. These 2 verses merely mean that Paul also used rabbinical commentaries.\u201d <span style=\"color: #000000;\">Nice try! Likewise, in 2 Timothy 3:8 (also inspired, infallible revelation) Paul casually mentions Jannes and Jambres as known historical figures, alongside Moses. They are not in the Old Testament. Period. Thus, this is an authoritative reference to authoritative extrabiblical tradition, no matter how hard Milan tries to spin it away and ignore it. Perhaps this indicates that I have a higher view of biblical inspiration than Milan does.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">5. Jerusalem Council\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201dThus we see in the Bible an instance of the gift of infallibility that the Catholic Church claims for itself when it assembles in a council.\u201d To be honest I don\u2019t see in the Bible in that particular passage instance of the gift\u00a0of infallibility that the Catholic Church claims for itself when it assembles in a council\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">This is rather Mr Armstrong\u2019s PIA DESIDERIA \u2013 godly wishes which he projected onto scriptural interpretation.. I need to warn him not to follow this way of interpreting Scriptures, because it\u2019s truly heretical approach. Only spiritually disciplined people won\u2019t fall in temptation of imputation of their own wishes onto Scriptural text as if it would be Divine message\u2026.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This is another pathetic [non, pseudo-] reply, that utterly <em>ignores<\/em> my reasoning in the section, instead opting for \u201cpsychoanalysis.\u201d If Milan thinks such ignoring helps his case or somehow disproves mine, I believe\u00a0readers will see through that as evasion and unwillingness to interact with opposing arguments. Let\u2019s see if he can come up with more than this silliness in his replies (real or alleged) to sections 6-10. But I have <em>very little patience<\/em> for this sort of thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">6. Pharisees, Sadducees, and Oral, Extrabiblical Tradition<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Mr.Armstrong\u2019s claim that Saducees were modern adherents of Sola Scriptura, is more than misleading. It\u2019s completely false!!!! I think you should get deeper study on Saducee Judaism\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Whilst\u00a0Pharisees were from social point of view people of many background, Saducees were Jewish priestly aristocracy. Not like Pharisees, Saducees had more friendly and embracing approach to ruling Roman government and were known as promoters of hellenistic culture, which alienated them from society, because Pharisees were considered to be more \u201dpatriotic\u201d in relation to hated Roman government and alien Greek influences\u2026And yeah, Saducees were strong liberals. I could call them \u201dmaterialistic\u201d Jews because they rejected anything supernatural..So to call them SOLA SCRIPTURA people is completely rubbish, because they definitely refused any supernatural miracles and wonders described in Scriptures\u2026 In that regard is really small difference between liberal protestant theologians(which completely reject anything Supernatural in Bible) and Saducees which did the same\u2026In fact Saducees cannot be Sola Scriptura people because Jesus convicted them of being in delusion because of ignoring Scriptures and of God\u2019s Power\u2026<br>\nPEOPLE LIKE SADUCEES CANNOT REJECT SUPERNATURAL MATTERS OF HOLY BIBLE AND BEING SOLA SCRIPTURA PEOPLE. THESE TWO THINGS ARE IN CONTRADICTION!!!!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I agree that the Sadducees were \u201cliberals\u201d but they also accepted only part of Scripture, and rejected oral tradition (which Jesus accepted). Here is a description of the Sadducees from the<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/bible.org\/seriespage\/3-sadducees\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Protestant site GotBible.org<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p class=\"bodytext\" style=\"color: #000000; padding-left: 30px;\">The Sadducees had what has been called a conservative attitude toward Scripture\u2013they restricted authority to the written law interpreted literally, and were not open to change. . . .\u00a0When Josephus says that they rejected all but the written law, he probably meant that they did not permit legal or doctrinal deductions from the prophets. He most likely meant that they opposed unwritten traditions. According to the Talmud, in the debates the Sadducees were attacked from other books of the Bible and used them themselves in their arguments. This strongly suggests that they viewed them as Scripture as well.<\/p>\n<p class=\"bodytext\" style=\"color: #000000; padding-left: 30px;\">The Pharisees had a large body of oral interpretation that had become binding. It was this that the Sadducees opposed.<\/p>\n<p class=\"bodytext\" style=\"color: #000000;\">Jesus followed the Pharisaical tradition over against the Sadducees. Paul called himself a Pharisee twice. Therefore, they both accepted written and oral tradition.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">7. Old Testament Jews Did Not Believe in Sola Scriptura \/ Necessity of Interpretation<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Another danger of Mr. Armstrong is that he views Judaism through the lens of Catholic Christianity. In fact teaching authorities of Judaism(mainly Pharisees and scribes) were no SACERDOTAL PEOPLE\u2026Even today many people look at Rabbi as to Jewish equivalent of Christian priest, but rabbi is merely teacher of Judaism. Rabbis don\u2019t perform any religious ceremonies. Leading of worship services is domain of other people, not of Rabbis, although Rabbis belong to religious leaders of their communities. So to view authoritative interpreters of Judaism through the prism of Catholic clergy is completely false\u2026 Mr Armstrong still does forget that Pharisees and Scribes always started as ordinary people and have no formal \u201dtheological\u201d education.. Only clergy Judaism had were Levi Priests\u2026 Many teachers of Moses Law in fact were common \u201dlaic\u201d people. Some of them did their teaching as full-time ministry, others had their civil job and teaching was only their LAIC religious ministry.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Yep. The Levites were from the priestly class. When did I ever deny that? Ezra, however, was both a scribe and priest. As I noted in this section (which Milan has utterly refused to directly interact with):<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><br>\n<b>Ezra 7:6, 10<\/b>: Ezra, a priest and scribe, studied the Jewish law and taught it to Israel, and his authority was binding, under pain of imprisonment, banishment, loss of goods, and even death (7:25-26).<br>\n<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Their authority to teach is of different source than in Catholic Church\u2026 Whilst in CC it is Church which has authority to appoint teachers, in Judaism ordinary people asked godly men educated in Torah study and they became Rabbi\u2019s follower \u2013 disciple(very similar to Baptist church)\u2026. Also Rabbis weren\u2019t in such hierarchic position as Catholic teaching authorities..<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">So having all these aspects on mind I must warn before any association of \u201dauthoritative interpreters\u201d in Judaism and in Catholic Christianity, because it is in principle wrong.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">However Milan wants to spin this away, it is what it is: there was <em>authoritative and binding<\/em> [\u201cdogmatic\u201d]<em> teaching<\/em> in the old covenant. They did not believe in Scripture Alone in the full Protestant sense. It was a combination of Scripture, tradition, and teaching [\u201cproto-Church\u201d] authority, just\u00a0as in Catholicism (the \u201cthree-legged stool\u201d). Not <em>everything<\/em> is <em>exactly<\/em> analogous, but it is a striking similarity, and far more than to Protestantism.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Once again (this is at least the <em>third<\/em> time, and I\u2019ve protested each one), Milan has decided to ignore my argument, which was multi-faceted, with several biblical references. He chose to \u201creply\u201d with mere polemical preaching. I\u2019ve devoted much time painstakingly responding to <em>his<\/em> arguments today, almost all point-by-point, but this is the disdain and contempt with which he treats <em>mine<\/em>. \u201cThree strikes and you\u2019re out.\u201d I won\u2019t spend this amount of time (if <em>any<\/em>) replying to his arguments (and lack thereof ) ever again. Time is very valuable. I\u2019m very protective of mine, because there is a lot of work to be done. The harvest is ripe and the laborers are few. A serious debater extends at least\u00a0a <em>minimum<\/em> of respect for his opponent, which includes<em> actually dealing with<strong> their<\/strong> arguments.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">So from a debate perspective, I think Milan is doing a terrible job. He has scarcely engaged the issue at all, and has done what I noted was almost standard practice among defenders of <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>: missing the point over and over and producing irrelevant minutiae; also ignoring Catholic arguments. He hasn\u2019t proved <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> to the slightest degree: not one bit!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">From an apologetics or teaching perspective, on the other hand, it is a spectacular and striking confirmation that our case is vastly superior and much more biblical, because we see, yet again (as always) the extreme weakness or literal non-existence of good arguments against ours. Thus I find myself simultaneously disgusted (as a socratic debater and great lover of<em> real<\/em> dialogue) and delighted (as an apologist and teacher and Catholic evangelist).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u00a08. 2 Timothy 3:16-17: The Protestant \u201cProof Text\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #333399;\">This one of core texts on Scriptural Authority contains testimony on DIVINE INSPIRACY of Written Word of God. This is key element of the message of the Text.. Not only Reformation but all ancient Fathers which debated on Canon of the Scriptures had this text on their minds, because Church Fathers and Ecclesiastical Authorities had their crucial task to set apart DIVINE INSPIRED WRITINGS from non-inspired ones which only pretended to be apostolical writings\u2026In fact too many writings of doubtful provenience and quality had emerged. Best response to counter deluge of heretical writings and teachings has been effort to establish Canonicity of those writings which bear seal of Divine Inspiracy without any doubt.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Not only Church but in Judaism there was the same issue debated in Jamnia 90 AD as Pharisaic religious leaders discussed DIVINE INSPIRACY of OT books.. It\u2019s interesting that they had almost the same criteria for Canonicity of books as Church Fathers and Church Authorities which made decision on Canonicity of NT books.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Divine inspiration (which all Christians agree on). is not the same thing as being formally sufficient, nor the same as the principle of <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Mr. Armstrong doubted here formal sufficiency of Scriptures, but very fact Paul declared them to be DIVINE INSPIRED make them formally sufficient authority for us true believers of Protestantism.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The same fallacy stated again (repetition makes it no less false than it ever was). This has not been established from Scripture; it has merely been arbitrarily assumed without argument. Scripture is <a href=\"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20150607110528\/http:\/\/socrates58.blogspot.com\/2004\/04\/material-vs-formal-sufficiency-of.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>materially<\/em> sufficient<\/a>: all true doctrines in Christianity are found in it, either explicitly, or indirectly or in kernel form, or deduced from clear Scripture. Some readers may want to revisit my introduction, to be crystal-clear on what we are debating and what Milan\u2019s burden is, in seeking to prove that <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> is taught in Scripture.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I owe to say that NOT CHURCH TRADITION is declared to be DIVINE INSPIRED, nor CHURCH AUTHORITIES, but SCRIPTURE is!!!!! So yes, if there is anything here in the earth which deserves to be formally sufficient Authoritative source of Faith, then ONLY SCRIPTURE IS!!! Why..Because Apostle Paul said so and Catholics declare that Paul\u2019s Words have status of infallible authoritative source\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Paul also talks a lot about authoritative tradition, which I have shown, either above, or in various links of mine that I linked to above.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Let me mention the role of Ecclesiastical authorities and Passed down traditions as Mr. Armstrong argued for their sake in the Bible quotations. Of Course Protestant Churches have their Pastors, Teachers, appointed Evangelists and Prophetic ministry.. In Last years even questions of genuine apostolical ministry of certain people (mainly in pentecostal-charismatic movement) has emerged\u2026 So of course we Protestants greatly appreciate ministerial gifts which Jesus offers to His Church \u2026However in the area of Prophetic ministry and other gifts\/CHARISMATA\/ of the Holy Spirit(see 1Cor 12) we Evangelicals see even greater necessity for Scriptural Authority to be in the role of arbiter if any harmful excesses would raise\u2026 Critics of Pentecostal-Charismatic movement in Protestant Churches might be right, because as we failed in usage of these precious gifts, it\u2019s because many times we ignored Manual handbook which Creator and Savior Jesus gave for us\u2026\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This is all irrelevant to the discussion, and we see that for the fourth time now, Milan has <em>absolutely ignored<\/em> the argument I gave regarding 2 Timothy 3:16. His choice. Do I think fair-minded, inquiring readers will be impressed by this non-interaction? No, not at all. I think they will see that he has no case, and so wanders off into irrelevant gibberish and jabber, to make an appearance of strength where he clearly has none. Otherwise, he would deal with my arguments and <em>dismantle<\/em> them!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">While he ignores my arguments, I can produce two other papers of mine that address 2 Timothy 3:16 at length<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/answer-to-sola-scriptura-prooftexts-2-tim-316-17-rom-1615-16.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">one<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2012\/01\/biblical-arguments-against-supposed.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">two<\/a>]. <span style=\"color: #000000;\">Let the reader decide where the truth lies!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">9. Paul Casually Assumes that His Passed-Down Tradition is Infallible and Binding<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">In point 9 Mr Armstrong would be right if in Catholic Church would be without outrageous abomination of mandatory celibacy\u2026 So if Catholics really want persuade me that apostle Paul\u2019s Words are really binding and infallible, then I expect that abomination of mandatory celibacy which completely refuted these Paul\u2019s words(1Tim 4,1-3) shall be completely removed from Church\u2026 If Vatican shall say their DAMNATIO on Pope Gregor VII which stamped down apostolical authority of apostle Paul, by commanding mandatory celibacy, and this, and this damned practice really shall officially become \u201dDEMONIC TEACHING\u201d in accordance with apostle Paul\u2019s words, then I\u2019ll start to to take your statements in point 9 seriously\u2026<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">But I guess sooner the Day of Judgement shall come than Vatican would remove off themselves the label of false hypocritical teachers with hot-iron-marked conscience.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Now for the fifth time, Milan chooses to rail against the Catholic Church on a completely unrelated topic, rather than address my arguments. I\u2019ll never waste my time \u201cdebating\u201d him again. This is a pathetic, disastrous\u00a0performance on his part. Even his rantings and ravings against priestly celibacy carry no power or weight, and I have refuted this sort of thing from Scripture itself\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s=celibacy\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">many times<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">10. Sola Scriptura is a Radically Circular Position\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Mr.Armstrong\u2019s last point isn\u2019t applicable to me at all. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s applicable to<em> anyone<\/em> who believes in <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>, which cannot be established from the Bible, and is radically self-defeating.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I admit there might be Protestants which deserve harsh critic of Mr.Armstrong on that point, but definitely I don\u2019t. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">He definitely <em>does<\/em>. We\u2019ve seen how he refused to interact with my arguments in five of the points.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I know were I came from\u00a0and I know my ground and I stand on it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">And it\u2019s a foundation of sand that won\u2019t hold any weight.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">From everything you could read above you don\u2019t have to doubt I can explain and bring forward reasons why I believe, in what I believe. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Really? He could have fooled me. If he had such a great case, he could have pulverized my arguments one-by-one instead of ignoring them and preaching about totally unrelated Catholic beliefs.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">And yeah I have got tradition which guides my own interpretation.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I know. It\u2019s a man-made, false tradition of men, leading him to believe in unbiblical doctrines. Admitting this is the first step to recovery, so it\u2019s a good sign.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Your example with U.S. Constitution versus authority of judicial system is good but even better proves my point.. For a long time U.S. Constitution has been in position of supreme authority just as Protestants have their Supremacy of Scriptural Authority and everything was ok, country prospered as no other before. But in last decade I see very upsetting trend when President Obama made U.S. Constitution to be toilet paper roll to wipe out his \u2026. and the same disturbing and dishonoring treatment with U.S. Constitution I see in whole U.S. judicial system..In fact there are deliberately broken basic freedoms of speech and faith and Supreme Court and lower court in the name of \u201dpolitical corectness\u201d destroy this precious heritage built by fathers.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">So no even more judicial activism and redefinition of values of marriage and other Biblical values valid for centuries, even bigger disaster made president of U.S. and whole judicial system..<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The point is that it has to be authoritatively <em>interpreted<\/em>, just as the Bible has to be. And that has not been adequately addressed.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Mr. Armstrong, only one personal question: according to your way of argumentation, is this utterly ok that Supreme Court has redefined marriage for all U.S. states. Do you really think that Supreme court should have a such competence even supersede authority of U.S.Constitution?? I\u2019m strongly convinced don\u2019t. And current calamity situation just confims my standpoint. U.S. are in the worst disaster for 240 years since USA exist. And reason is that U.S. Constitution has been dethroned and even more U.S. Constitution is superseded by unworthy President and unworthy Supreme court members, even closer USA are to total destruction\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Here we are off on irrelevant rabbit trails again<\/span>.\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">The point is that the Constitution has to be authoritatively\u00a0<\/span><em style=\"color: #000000;\">interpreted<\/em><span style=\"color: #000000;\">, just as the Bible has to be. It was not properly interpreted when same-sex \u201cmarriage\u201d was upheld, just as it was not when legal abortion was decreed, or slavery upheld in the 1857 Dred Scott decision. Likewise, the Bible is wrongly interpreted when the hundreds of Protestant sects contradict each other left and right (all appealing to what they regard as the self-evidently \u201cclear\u201d or \u201cperspicuous\u201d Bible). There is one truth, not hundreds. But since the Protestant rule of faith (<em>sola Scriptura<\/em>) is wrong and unbiblical, they will never be able to resolve their internal contradictions. False guiding principles bring about bad fruit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">And Protestantism in USA are in the same crisis, because Bible in American Evangelicalism has been dethroned.. Faithlessness, corruption, compromise attitudes and abandoning Biblical truths and principles and compliance of wicked political (or spiritual) leaders is bigger than compliance and reverence of God\u2019s Word\u2026This is what I see as reason of problem you try to describe\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Protestants contradict each other when they believe in biblical inspiration. It makes no difference. They still can\u2019t come to agree, and it has always been this way in the history of Protestantism, right from the start. Luther and Calvin both had very high views of Scripture, but they couldn\u2019t come to total agreement. Liberalism or abandonment of traditional teachings (within Protestantism) leads to further disagreement. But those don\u2019t come<em> only<\/em> from increasing lack of Christian belief. They come from primarily the erroneous rule of faith.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">And not Supremacy of Scriptural Authority is wrong, but on the contrary.. As US Evangelicals abandoned Scriptural Authority, God shall abandon them\u2026 Do you honor God\u2019s Word?? God shall honor you.. Do you dishonor it? God shall dishonor you\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p>This is true. At least we agree on <em>something<\/em> . . . I\u2019ve been defending the complete inspiration and infallibility of Scripture for 35 years.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">On last point. There really are different views on Sacraments(baptism of infants vs. believer\u2019s baptism, symbolical or real presence of Jesus in elements in Communion)..And I realize, that we have no definite answer on these issues, because Scripture doesn\u2019t provide it\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">That is not proven. I say that Scripture <em>does<\/em> provide the answers, but because they happen to coincide with <em>Catholic<\/em> teachings, Protestants won\u2019t accept them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Thus freedom which is in Protestantism is only solution to have these different traditions side by side..\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s never a solution to have contradictory opinions side-by-side on important issues like baptism and communion: both of which are described in the Bible as<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/bible-on-salvation-via-baptism-eucharist.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> directly related to salvation<\/a>. These are not side issues or optional beliefs, but absolutely central to Christianity. And contradictions mean that one or both contradictory positions must be\u00a0wrong; falsehood, untruths, lies. Lies and false doctrines come from the devil and do no one any good. God wants us to have the fullness of truth, and He chose to specially guide and protect His Church through the Holy Spirit and make it infallible, so that we wouldn\u2019t have to have this uncertainty and foolishness of contradictory denominations by the many hundreds and even thousands. The Bible utterly condemns <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/02\/denominationalism-and-sectarianism.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">denominationalism<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It might sound as relativistic position of mine..<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It <em>sounds<\/em> that way because it <em>is<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #141823;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">If you see me like that, so be it. Definitely I\u2019m not indifferent on these question and I have answers, but I\u2019ll offer them after we start another thread and particular theological issue to debate..<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">We won\u2019t be debating again, now that I\u2019ve seen how you ignore my arguments over and over. I have neither time nor patience for that. Life\u2019s too short. I <em>do<\/em> thank you, though, for the few occasions where you at least put up <em>some<\/em> sort of argument. May God bless you abundantly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Milan in the Facebook group then added a comment, claiming that the Church fathers believed in<em> sola Scriptura<\/em>. They did <em>not<\/em>\u00a0at all. I have debated this many times<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/debate-church-fathers-sola-scriptura.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">one <\/a>\/<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/ten-church-fathers-sola-scriptura.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> two<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2011\/10\/dialogue-on-lutheranism-and-catholicism-part-two-church-fathers-and-sola-scriptura-vs-nathan-rinne.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">three<\/a> \/<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/10\/dialogue-on-whether-fathers-taught.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> four <\/a>\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/11\/david-t-king-and-william-webster.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">five <\/a>\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/11\/david-t-king-and-william-webster_9.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">six <\/a>\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/11\/david-t-king-and-william-webster_11.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">seven<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2007\/10\/protestant-historian-philip-schaff.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">eight <\/a>\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2007\/02\/did-st-gregory-of-nyssa-believe-in-scripture-alone.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">nine <\/a>\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/10\/sufficiency-of-scripture-and-church.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">ten<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2010\/01\/dialogue-with-protestant-apologist.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">eleven<\/a>]. <span style=\"color: #000000;\">All of these treatments contains dozens of patristic citations, showing that they did not believe as Protestants do. It\u2019s a myth, and can only be \u201cdefended\u201d by special pleading and ultra-selective citation and citations out of context. And I also show how Protestant apologists cite them incorrectly and out-of-context, and ignore many texts\u00a0in the fathers that don\u2019t go along with their agenda (proving a mythical supposed acceptance of <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> in the fathers).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><em>Stay in touch! Like Biblical Evidence for Catholicism on Facebook:<\/em><\/p>\n<div class=\"fb-page\" data-href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/DaveArmstrong1958\/\" data-width=\"500\" data-small-header=\"false\" data-adapt-container-width=\"true\" data-hide-cover=\"false\" data-show-facepile=\"true\" data-show-posts=\"false\">\n<div class=\"fb-xfbml-parse-ignore\">\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/DaveArmstrong1958\/\"><p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/DaveArmstrong1958\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Biblical Evidence for Catholicism<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Defending sola Scriptura is rather like a dog chasing his tail. Either he never catches it, or if he does, it hurts and is not nearly as much fun or fulfilling as he thought it would be. Photo by \u201cLil Shepherd\u201d: 16 May 2012 [Flickr \/ CC BY 2.0 license] * * * Quick Ten-Step [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":5804,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31,131],"tags":[514,1879,1878,33,1387,1386,535,1877,32,536,35,47],"class_list":["post-5803","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible-and-tradition","category-church-ecclesiology","tag-bible-only","tag-biblical-prooftexts","tag-biblical-theology","tag-christian-authority","tag-exegesis","tag-hermeneutics","tag-holy-bible","tag-infallible-authority","tag-rule-of-faith","tag-sacred-scripture","tag-scripture-alone","tag-sola-scriptura"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Defense of My &quot;Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura&quot;<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A Protestant took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points of a paper of mine on sola Scriptura. This is my counter-reply.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Defense of My &quot;Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura&quot;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"A Protestant took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points of a paper of mine on sola Scriptura. This is my counter-reply.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-01-26T21:22:51+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-03-29T17:31:11+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/01\/DogChasingTail2.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"576\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"768\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"42 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html\",\"name\":\"Defense of My \\\"Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura\\\"\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2016-01-26T21:22:51+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-03-29T17:31:11+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"A Protestant took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points of a paper of mine on sola Scriptura. This is my counter-reply.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Defense of My &#8220;Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura&#8221;\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/\",\"name\":\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\",\"description\":\"Catholic biblical apologetics\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\",\"name\":\"Dave Armstrong\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dave Armstrong\"},\"description\":\"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Defense of My \"Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura\"","description":"A Protestant took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points of a paper of mine on sola Scriptura. This is my counter-reply.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Defense of My \"Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura\"","og_description":"A Protestant took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points of a paper of mine on sola Scriptura. This is my counter-reply.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2016-01-26T21:22:51+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-03-29T17:31:11+00:00","og_image":[{"width":576,"height":768,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/01\/DogChasingTail2.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"42 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html","name":"Defense of My \"Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura\"","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website"},"datePublished":"2016-01-26T21:22:51+00:00","dateModified":"2017-03-29T17:31:11+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e"},"description":"A Protestant took it upon himself to attempt a refutation of all ten points of a paper of mine on sola Scriptura. This is my counter-reply.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/defense-of-my-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Defense of My &#8220;Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura&#8221;"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/","name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","description":"Catholic biblical apologetics","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e","name":"Dave Armstrong","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dave Armstrong"},"description":"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5803","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5803"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5803\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5804"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5803"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5803"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5803"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}