{"id":60016,"date":"2021-09-25T12:19:40","date_gmt":"2021-09-25T16:19:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=60016"},"modified":"2021-09-25T16:43:11","modified_gmt":"2021-09-25T20:43:11","slug":"some-catholics-hope-pope-francis-dies-yes","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/09\/some-catholics-hope-pope-francis-dies-yes.html","title":{"rendered":"Some Catholics Hope Pope Francis Dies? Yes . . ."},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

Pope Francis stated the following, from the \u201cofficial\u201d transcript<\/a> of his conversation with Slovakian Jesuits (9-12-21):<\/p>\n

A Jesuit asks, \u201cHow are you?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

He replies \u201cStill alive, even though some people wanted me to die. I know there were even meetings between prelates who thought the pope\u2019s condition was more serious than the official version. They were preparing for the conclave. Patience! Thank God, I\u2019m all right.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

No doubt, there will be some [legitimate] traditionalist Catholics and extremist radical Catholic reactionaries<\/a> who would mock and deride this comment. But it\u2019s a true observation, not merely<\/em> sarcastic or dark humor on the pope\u2019s part (though it probably was that, too<\/em>, as he was joking just before the remark). This reminds me of the typical humor from President Ronald Reagan, who quipped when he was about to undergo surgery after he was almost assassinated: \u201cI hope the doctor is a Republican.\u201d<\/p>\n

How do I know that the pope\u2019s words are accurate? Well, here is some evidence from almost four years ago that we have no reason to doubt, from: \u201cThe War Against Pope Francis\u201d<\/a> (Andrew Brown, The Guardian<\/em>, 10-27-17):<\/p>\n

\n

P<\/span><\/span>ope Francis is one of the most hated men in the world today. Those who hate him most are not atheists, or protestants, or Muslims, but some of his own followers. Outside the church he is hugely popular as a figure of almost ostentatious modesty and humility. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

But within the church, Francis has provoked a ferocious backlash from conservatives who fear that this spirit will divide the church, and could even shatter it. This summer, one prominent English priest said to me: \u201cWe can\u2019t wait for him to die.<\/strong> It\u2019s unprintable what we say in private. Whenever two priests meet, they talk about how awful Bergoglio is \u2026 he\u2019s like Caligula: if he had a horse, he\u2019d make him cardinal.\u201d Of course, after 10 minutes of fluent complaint, he added: \u201cYou mustn\u2019t print any of this, or I\u2019ll be sacked.\u201d<\/p>\n

This mixture of hatred and fear is common among the pope\u2019s adversaries. [my bolding]<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

The sedevacantist outfit, Novus Ordo Watch<\/em> (folks who believe there is currently no sitting pope), commenting on these words<\/a>, stated:<\/p>\n

It\u2019s a pity that this \u201cprominent English priest\u201d is not mentioned by name, but the report is entirely credible. Here at Novus Ordo Watch, we heard the same thing earlier this year, from a somewhat prominent Novus Ordo layman in the United States: \u201cEveryone is praying for him to die.\u201d <\/strong>[my bolding]<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Most astonishingly, a Catholic archbishop (alas, one that has increasingly shown himself to be stark raving mad over the last few years, but a great hero to many traditionalists and reactionaries) has actually done this outrageous thing:<\/p>\n

But, dear Priest, you expect that the iniquitous man will act as an honest and God-fearing person, while it is precisely because he is wicked that he will abuse without any consistency or scruple a power which he knows well that he has maliciously conquered in order to demolish it. Since it pertains to the very essence of tyranny, as a perversion of just and good authority, not only to exercise authority in a perverse way but also to want to throw discredit and repulsion on that authority of which it is a grotesque counterfeit. The horrors committed by Bergoglio in recent years not only represent an indecorous abuse of papal authority, but they have as an immediate consequence the scandal given to good people in his regard, because, by means of a parody of the Papacy, he renders the Papacy itself hateful and odious, irreparably compromising the image and prestige which the Church has enjoyed up until now, even though she has been afflicted by modernist ideology for decades. . . .<\/p>\n

On closer inspection, it is precisely in order to defend hierarchical Communion with the Roman Pontiff that it is necessary to disobey him, to denounce his errors, and to ask him to resign. And to pray that God calls him to Himself as soon as possible, if a good for the Church can derive from this<\/strong>. (Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigan\u00f2, \u201cOpen Letter to Confused Priests,\u201d<\/a> The Remnant<\/em>, 2-2-21; my bolding)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I have remarked occasionally in the past that I suspected that much of the anti-Francis mentality is actually driven and led by priests<\/em> getting together and gossiping. My friend, the late Fr. Angel Sotelo (sorely missed!) used to confirm that such gossip (generally speaking) was very common indeed among priests. How sad that is, but the above anecdote fully supports such a suspicion.<\/p>\n

Gossip and slander are vicious, abominable things. They spread like wildfire. Priests and bishops who don\u2019t care for this pope, don\u2019t like him, even literally hate him in some cases, would be functioning in these instances like the proverbial \u201cdisgruntled employee.\u201d And everyone is familiar with that<\/em> mentality (most of us have partaken in it ourselves).<\/p>\n

One priest that I know personally and admire (and a very well-known one) wrote to me, saying flat-out that Pope Francis was a \u201cbad man.\u201d That\u2019s not just saying he is subject to original sin, like all of us. It\u2019s a declaration that he is wicked and willfully obstinate; in mortal sin; a terrible and habitual sinner.<\/p>\n

Now it\u2019s perfectly plausible and imaginable to picture some of the pope\u2019s most ferocious critics, folks who literally despise or detest or hate him (including, sadly, many priests), working themselves up into a fury of supposed \u201crighteous indignation\u201d and thinking themselves pious and praiseworthy in hoping, wishing, or praying for him to die so we can get another pope more to their liking. It\u2019s all for the good of the Church<\/em>, you see . . .<\/p>\n

Sin among Christians often gets rationalized away and wrapped up in a faux piety, so the person can justify the stark contrast between such sin and their claim to be consistent (loving) disciples of Jesus. We have endlessly inventive methods of self-delusion and self-justification. Read C. S. Lewis\u2019 wonderful Screwtape Letters<\/em> to learn about many of these diabolical techniques.<\/p>\n

I remember also in the latter days in the life of Pope St. John Paul II (yes, I vociferously defended him<\/em>, too), how the self-described \u201ctraditionalists\u201d were loudly and endlessly proclaiming that he was a loose cannon who had lived too long and was saying progressively more questionable things in their eyes. It was not far from those sentiments to wishing for him to die. And there is no question that some people did<\/em> indeed hope and wish (and pray) for that result, just as there are unquestionably folks who think like that today<\/em>. We wouldn\u2019t expect for such travesties to be very easy to find in Google searches, but believe me, the attitude exists.<\/p>\n

Pray very hard for those who have sunk to this low of a spiritual ( I should say, rather, carnal) level, while you also pray for the Holy Father. The pope-bashers have gone from \u201cbe submissive to rulers and authorities, . . . obedient, . . .\u00a0 speak evil of no one, . . . show perfect courtesy toward all men\u201d (Titus 3:1-2, RSV) and \u201cEven in your thought, do not curse the king\u201d (Ecc 10:20), to (in the worst cases of Pope Francis-derision) openly hoping and praying that a pope dies because they hate him so much.<\/p>\n

I hasten to add, that they also invariably fantastically misunderstand<\/em> him and his teachings. They have worked long and hard to set up a gross caricature of the real man and his actual beliefs and teachings, that they proceed to set afire. It\u2019s exceedingly wicked.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Related Reading<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

\n
Replies to Critiques of Pope Francis (Dave Armstrong)<\/a>\u00a0[209 of my\u00a0own<\/em>\u00a0articles]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Pope Francis Defended: Resources for Confused or Troubled Folks<\/a>\u00a0[285 articles from others]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit<\/strong>: [pubic domain \/ Max Pixel<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Summary<\/em>: Yes, there are Catholics (including priests) who hope & wish, even pray for Pope Francis to die, because they detest him so much and wrongly think he is a terrible, wicked, heretic pope.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Pope Francis stated the following, from the \u201cofficial\u201d transcript of his conversation with Slovakian Jesuits (9-12-21): A Jesuit asks, \u201cHow are you?\u201d He replies \u201cStill alive, even though some people wanted me to die. I know there were even meetings between prelates who thought the pope\u2019s condition was more serious than the official version. They […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":60019,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[138],"tags":[14794,14821,1178,137,14806,14809,7525,571,14791,572,570,14713,156,14788,14710,14812,14818,135,573,14815],"class_list":["post-60016","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-papacy-infallibility","tag-catholic-media-bias","tag-death-of-pope-francis","tag-ewtn","tag-heterodoxy","tag-hope-pope-francis-dies","tag-hoping-pope-francis-dies","tag-media-bias","tag-modernism","tag-mother-angelica","tag-orthodox-catholic-dogma","tag-orthodoxy","tag-orthodoxy-of-pope-francis","tag-pope-francis","tag-pope-francis-ewtn","tag-pope-francis-is-orthodox","tag-praying-pope-francis-dies","tag-some-people-wanted-me-to-die","tag-theological-liberalism","tag-traditional-catholic-doctrine","tag-wishing-for-pope-francis-death"],"yoast_head":"\nSome Catholics Hope Pope Francis Dies? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Some Catholics Hope Pope Francis Dies? Yes . . . Some Catholics Hope Pope Francis Dies? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/60016","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=60016"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/60016\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/60019"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=60016"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=60016"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=60016"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}