{"id":6151,"date":"2016-02-16T16:09:00","date_gmt":"2016-02-16T20:09:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=6151"},"modified":"2017-03-27T18:43:11","modified_gmt":"2017-03-27T22:43:11","slug":"critique-of-ankerberg-weldons-anti-catholicism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/critique-of-ankerberg-weldons-anti-catholicism.html","title":{"rendered":"Critique of Ankerberg and Weldon&#8217;s Anti-Catholicism"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>. . . in their book,<\/strong>\u00a0<strong><em>Protestants and Catholics: Do They Now Agree?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/02\/DAVE04951.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-6154 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/02\/DAVE04951.jpg\" alt=\"DAVE0495\" width=\"640\" height=\"425\"><\/a><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Yours Truly in April 1995, with my first two sons. It was Paul\u2019s fourth birthday ,and Michael was almost two.<\/span><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\">* * *<\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\">\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">(May 1995)<\/span><\/p>\n<p>* * * * *<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Co-Author John Weldon wrote to me in a letter dated 19 May 1995:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">I would be most interested in your analysis of our new book . . . If at all possible, . . . respond to me after you have carefully read it. I would be most interested to see, in light of your ten years as an evangelical, how you deal with the information . . . I would be happy to respond to any letter you send evaluating our new book. {pp. 1, 3-4}<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">I responded with the following critique (since revised somewhat for better readability), but unfortunately (though quite predictably, with anti-Catholics), Dr. Weldon never responded. The words cited from the book throughout will be in\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">blue<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Sufficient Biblical Proof<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">I am a Socratic in my approach to knowledge, whether theological or any other type, and I won\u2019t change my mind unless and until my present views are seriously challenged and overcome by \u2013 as Luther stated \u2013 \u201cScripture and plain reason.\u201d This is precisely how I came to convert to Catholicism, after a solid year of study and intense discussion with informed Catholics (during which I mostly attacked their views). Until then, apart from questioning my motivations, knowledge or sincerity, how can you or anyone else be surprised at my conversion and staunch beliefs (I still do, however, retain great respect for evangelicalism)?<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Yes, I am utterly and sincerely convinced that the Catholic Church\u2019s views are immeasurably more biblical, historical, and reasonable than that of the many strains of Protestantism. Isn\u2019t that amazing? Over and over you assert or imply in your book that Catholicism is either \u201cunbiblical\u201d or anti-biblical. Yet my writings are filled with scriptural evidences from beginning to end. I\u2019m just as \u201csure\u201d that these proofs are compelling as you are with yours. A lot depends on presuppositions, and all parties are inevitably biased and (usually unknowingly) guilty of eisegesis, as I think you would concede. But in the end, my \u201ccertainty\u201d is a result of the cumulative effect of hundreds upon hundreds of Bible texts, facts of Church history, logical, moral, and analogical reasoning, even spiritual experience \u2013 all leading to the conclusion that Catholicism is true. I assure you this is what I believe with all my heart (I could always theoretically be dissuaded, of course).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">The Motives of Converts<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">I think you would do well to seriously ponder the perspective of a convert like myself. I don\u2019t think you really did that with Howard, Kreeft, Vitz and Hahn in your book:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">In many cases like this we suspect that the real reasons are hidden and that the public telling may portray only a small part of the real story. {p. 207}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">On what grounds do you make such a judgment, I wonder? These men (three of whom I\u2019ve met) are all brilliant thinkers and human beings and deserve much more consideration than your generally trivialized portrayal of them, if I may be so blunt.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: inherit; color: #000000;\">I might add in passing that if any converts have a \u201chidden\u201d motivation it is the many backslidden Catholic priests who invariably (gee, I wonder why?) get married after they leave the Church. Why is it that scarcely any of them retain their celibacy, which was, of course, just as solemn a vow (and just as optional) as marriage vows? Forgive me if I question the sincerity and integrity of many of these \u201cconverts\u201d who can\u2019t even honor their word to God. It just so happens that the majority of Protestant \u201cReformers\u201d exhibited this same curious tendency (Luther, Zwingli, Knox, Cranmer, Latimer, Oecolampadius). Zwingli later openly confessed ongoing, scandalous adultery as well, so even marriage didn\u2019t solve his problem. Henry VIII, of course, led a whole country away from Catholicism due primarily to his uncontrollable lust and desire to commit adultery \u2013 hardly a commendable or \u201cspiritual\u201d reason for starting a religious revolt!<\/span><br>\n<span class=\"fullpost\"><span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">One seldom finds this sort of moral laxity among converts to Catholicism. The overall moral and intellectual quality of our converts is clearly of an entirely different order. It\u2019s much more difficult \u2013 everything being equal \u2013 to give up contraception and observe periodic marital abstinence (as in my case) than to throw off one\u2019s solemn vows and engage in the pleasures of marital bliss. In other words, my motivation, whatever you think it was, clearly wasn\u2019t the indulgence of fleshly pleasure, at least. There is no purely human temptation to espouse a higher and stricter morality, other than the heartfelt spiritual belief that it is true and right. I think you get my point by now.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\">Please forgive my long introduction. I must get into some depth because these are complex issues, and Catholicism cannot be reduced to simple formulas and slogans (e.g., all the \u201csolas\u201d) as easily as Protestantism can. Truth is always nuanced and multi-faceted, it seems to me. First, I will make some general observations about your book:<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Avoiding the Opponent\u2019s Best Arguments and Apologetics<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">You simply don\u2019t deal with the best Catholic arguments in the book. You repeat all the predictable Protestant proof texts and platitudes ad infinitum (Ephesians 2:8-9 is all over the place and \u201cfaith alone\u201d is innumerable), and imply in so many words, \u201chow could anyone who isn\u2019t brain dead possibly deny all this overwhelming evidence?\u201d Since you repeatedly state that Catholicism is so unbiblical and has no biblical basis, etc., and rarely give our side of things (yes, biblical proofs, believe it or not), what do you expect a theologically unsophisticated reader to conclude (or even the sophisticated, if unacquainted with Catholic reasoning and apologetics)? This is hardly fair or balanced.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Now, I suspect you would respond by charging that my writings likewise present Catholic views one-sidedly and neglect the Protestant counterparts. But there are major differences:<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">A) I don\u2019t claim that Protestants aren\u2019t Christian, or that they deny the gospel, or that they have no conceivable biblical arguments, etc. And I often compliment and express respect for them, too. It seems to me that since you deny our Christian status, you have a much greater burden of proof and thus ought to refute our best polemics. You constantly insinuate that Catholics (with little or no qualification \u2013 so it includes me) are basically a bunch of biblically illiterate dolts and idiots (spiritually speaking) who can\u2019t even get to the \u201ckindergarten\u201d of Christianity. If our view is as anemic as you believe, demolishing even our best defenses should be short work for you, right? Then your book would be infinitely more credible.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">B) Protestants have many books elaborating their views, and Catholics (for various reasons) don\u2019t have as many with their proofs. Thus I didn\u2019t feel compelled to give all of your arguments, but rather, wanted to give the Catholic proofs, which are completely unknown to most people \u2013 kind of the same idea as Rush Limbaugh saying \u201cI am equal time\u201d (i.e., over against the overwhelmingly liberal media, academia, etc.). I would tell someone (like a good Socratic) to compare my proofs with yours and decide who has the better, more biblical and rational worldview. I\u2019m fully confident mine would prevail, assuming such an inquirer was truly open-minded.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">C) Our view is that many of your proof texts\u00a0<i>complement<\/i>, rather than\u00a0<i>contradict<\/i>\u00a0ours. For example, all of Protestants\u2019 alleged proofs for\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>\u00a0prove only that Scripture is true, wonderful, fantastic, God\u2019s Word, infallible, etc., which of course we entirely agree with, not that Scripture is ultimately opposed to Tradition and the Church \u2013 which we consider a false and unbiblical dichotomy.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">The Inexplicable Absence of Church History and Church Fathers<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Your stated opinions in many places render Church history altogether nonsensical and nearly irrelevant, as will be shown repeatedly below. As a non-sacramental,\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>\u00a0evangelical, you neglect Church History and the Fathers almost entirely in your book. You say virtually nothing about the related concept of doctrinal development and the absolute necessity of understanding this if one is ever to remotely understand the doctrinal growth of Catholic Christianity (or even the mythical \u201cproto-Protestantism\u201d of c. 313?-1500) through the centuries (a key to my own conversion, after reading Newman).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">In so doing, you unfortunately manifest the same mentality as Dave Hunt, who \u201cdebated\u201d Karl Keating in the Detroit area on the historical proposition, \u201cWas the Early Church Catholic?\u201d without citing a single Church Father all night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I pointed out the absurdity of this to him by mail, he retorted:<\/span><br>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: black;\">You missed the whole point of my debate \u2013 that I do not go to the church fathers to find out what the early church was like or what it should have been like, but I quoted the Bible. The Bible is what tells us about the early church . . . What\u2019s the point of looking to the early church fathers? They could have departed from the truth as well! Our only sure knowledge of the early church was and should have been the scriptures. {personal letter of April 24, 1995}<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Such a view is embarrassing, to say the least (with great restraint) and is self-refuting. Thus I will not waste my time \u201canswering\u201d it. Articulate Protestants tell me that\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>\u00a0does not cancel out Tradition or Church History, yet with statements like this and the nonexistence of any substantial recourse to the history of Christianity before 1517 in your book (the ubiquitous Inquisition\u00a0<i>is<\/i>\u00a0mentioned, however), I become that much more hostile to\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">I see all around me the \u201cfruit\u201d it produces \u2013 Christians (not referring to you) who can\u2019t see past their own nose and couldn\u2019t care less about even the most brilliant Fathers such as St. Augustine (who is often inexplicably claimed by the rare history-minded Protestant as one of their own), or even the heritage of their own forerunners, the \u201cReformers,\u201d quite often eschewing the very title \u201cProtestant.\u201d I must say I\u2019ve never understood or comprehended the a-historical mindset, and I never possessed it as a Protestant. Since, as Newman says, \u201cto be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant,\u201d I was destined to become a Catholic eventually.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Anti-Catholicism is a Minority Position Amongst Evangelical Protestant Scholars<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">I am encouraged that a large majority of evangelical Protestant scholars and leaders disagree with your incoherent (and uncharitable, since it is false) contention that Catholicism is not a Christian religion (most forcefully stated on pp. 73, 212, 218, 219, 221). I need not name them. You know who they are probably better than I do, since you are so concerned about the ECT statement. You even go so far as to deny that we \u201clove and worship the same Lord\u201d when you include John MacArthur\u2019s Foreword (p. 11). Yet you often contradict yourself elsewhere when you explain that the two parties agree on many important areas (certainly including the nature of God \u2013 since you got your view lock, stock, and barrel from us \u2013 e.g., Athanasian Creed, Nicea, Chalcedon!), but since they supposedly disagree on the most important element, the \u201cgospel,\u201d Catholicism is thereby pagan. For instance, on p. 144 you write:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">Most people\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">[yourselves presumably included]<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u00a0realize that when Evangelicals and Catholics say that they accept Jesus Christ as Savior, that yes, for both Jesus is the Savior. But how a person receives Jesus\u2019 salvation is not agreed upon . . .<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Precisely! No argument here over the nature of Jesus. We can wrangle with the <a href='https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/library\/mormonism' target='_blank'>Mormons<\/a> and JW\u2019s over that one. But to say, as MacArthur does, and you implicitly, by including his\u00a0<i>Personal Word<\/i>, that Catholicism has a different Jesus is outrageous, slanderous and preposterous \u2013 even worse than your oft-stated maxim that Catholicism denies the \u201cgospel\u201d (i.e., as you wrongly define it \u2013 see below). Perhaps you disagree with MacArthur (at least you do in your book elsewhere, I assume unconsciously). If so, then his ridiculous statement shouldn\u2019t be in the book, much less at the place which is supposed to sum up the essence of your hypothesis. There is no excuse for this, and I can\u2019t fathom how two Protestant apologists with doctorates in theology could possibly commit this mammoth\u00a0<i>faux pas<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: red;\"><i>Non Sequitur<\/i>\u00a0Title<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Even your title is exceedingly curious. Of course we don\u2019t \u201cagree.\u201d Who could deny that? But I\u2019ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that Harvest House came up with this silly title. Nor does the ECT statement say that we agree in any remotely comprehensive fashion. Obviously, it was a \u201cmere Christianity\u201d type of effort \u2013 an attempt to acknowledge the affinities that we have, in minimalist language.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">I think you greatly misunderstand the methods, function, goals and philosophy of theologically conservative ecumenists, since you are so violently opposed to the endeavor in the first place. I could have told you that Colson, Packer, Bright et al still believed in\u00a0<i>sola fide<\/i>\u00a0and\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>\u00a0and all the other Protestant distinctives. Nothing in ECT implies otherwise. Did you really think they had changed their stripes? Do you have so little respect for your ecumenical evangelical comrades (perhaps less than I do myself) that you can accuse them with a straight face, of \u201cbetraying the gospel,\u201d as Sproul said on your TV show?<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">It\u2019s all so tragi-comic to an outside observer and former evangelical Protestant such as myself. Here someone is trying (God forbid!) to foster a little bit of unity without compromising distinctives, and people like Dave Hunt (whom you cite repeatedly as a trustworthy scholarly source) think the sky is falling down (\u201cthe most devastating blow against the gospel in at least 1,000 years\u201d).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Now, on to particulars. I\u2019ll try to be as brief as I can:<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Protestant and Catholic Piety and Spirituality<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">Catholics are taught that a man cannot know his own heart. {p. 28}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Documentation, please? I suppose you are unfamiliar with works such as St. Ignatius\u2019\u00a0<i>Spiritual Exercises<\/i>, St. Francis de Sales\u2019\u00a0<i>Introduction to the Devout Life<\/i>, and Thomas a Kempis\u2019\u00a0<i>Imitation of Christ<\/i>, to name a few that come immediately to mind. I would venture to guess that the \u201cExamination of Conscience\u201d and other meditations taught by St. Ignatius lead to a far greater knowledge of one\u2019s own \u201cheart\u201d than any Protestant works in the same vein. If you want to confuse \u201cknowledge of the heart\u201d with eternal security, then you can argue with all the Arminian denominations, and with St. Paul, St. Peter, and the writer of Hebrews, not me.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Protestant Diversity and Relativism Concerning Baptism \/ Double Standards<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">Protestantism sees both baptism and communion primarily as symbols and\/or memorials of vital theological truths. {p. 70}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">The fact that Catholicism teaches baptism is an essential requirement for salvation underscores their system of works salvation . . . Nowhere in all the Bible can this teaching be demonstrated. {p. 75}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to undercut the basic biblical teaching of salvation by faith alone. {p. 76}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">The sacraments of Rome are proof that a system of salvation by merit is taught and therefore that the Catholic Church teaches another gospel (Galatians 1:8-9). {p. 87}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">If we can agree to disagree on something like this\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">[baptismal regeneration]<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u00a0and still call Roman Catholics Christian, have we not abandoned the meaning of the words of Scripture? {p. 154}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">[List of the \u201cdoctrine of salvation\u201d \u2013 pp. 268-269] includes the following:<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">1. Depravity, 5. Atonement, 8. Regeneration, 10. Conversion, 13. Justification, 15. Sanctification, 16. Eternal Security, 17. Perseverance, 18. Election\/Perseverance<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">[See also your laundry list on pp. 219-220]<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">The problem here is your inconsistency and tunnel vision. You pretend all Protestants are Calvinist Baptists, Presbyterians, or Reformed. As for the symbolic views of the Eucharist and Baptism, I ask, \u201cwhich Protestants are you talking about?\u201d Anglicans and Lutherans believe in the Real Presence. So now Luther, Melanchthon, Bonhoeffer, Kierkegaard, C.S. Lewis and many of his friends are not Christians, according to your criteria of \u201corthodoxy\u201d?<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">As for Baptism, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Churches of Christ and Disciples of Christ don\u2019t regard it as symbolic, and all believe in Baptismal Regeneration and in the necessity of Baptism for salvation! This means, then, according to your above reasoning, that such groups (and persons such as John Wesley) must also be classed as teaching \u201cWorks Salvation,\u201d \u201canother gospel,\u201d that they deny \u201cfaith alone,\u201d are not \u201cChristian,\u201d and have \u201cabandoned Scripture.\u201d Surely the foolhardiness of this view is evident. Luther himself, the originator of\u00a0<i>sola fide<\/i>, managed to simultaneously believe in the Real Presence, Adoration of the Host, Baptismal Regeneration, and even most of the Catholic Marian doctrines, including the Immaculate Conception This fact alone renders your contentions here absolutely absurd.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Why don\u2019t you show the courage of your convictions and start booting the above groups and individuals, including Luther, your Founder, out of the Protestant faith? If Sacramentalism is un-Christian, where are the books claiming that Luther and Lutherans, Methodists, etc. are not Christian? Aren\u2019t these people (by your logic) even worse than Catholics, since they pose as Protestants and should \u201cknow better\u201d? Where is your righteous indignation over them? Protestants disagree about all nine of the aspects of Salvation listed above (from your list). You yourself even admit that Luther denied Eternal Security (p. 283 \u2013 his position being identical to the one I used to hold). So then, how can this belief be integral to the gospel (the denial of which makes one non-Christian)?<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">The \u201cUnbiblical\u201d Scandal of the Rosary?<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">But the Bible says not a word about recitation of the Rosary. This is another illustration of how Catholic tradition has undercut the authority of the Bible. {p. 97}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">So what! Are you serious? The Bible doesn\u2019t say a lot of things Protestants do now and accept as gospel truth. But I don\u2019t see you complaining about that, or writing a\u00a0<i>Facts On . . . .\u00a0<\/i>booklet chronicling false Protestant accretions and traditions of men (the existence of which you recognize in your letter to me \u2013 p. 3).\u00a0<i>Sola Scriptura<\/i>\u00a0doesn\u2019t require such an extreme \u201cBible-only\u201d view, bordering on bibliolatry.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">(Evangelical) Keith Green wrote a tract in 1981 in which he criticized elements that he thought were added to the gospel by Protestants, such as: the Altar call, sinner\u2019s prayer, \u201c1-2-3 steps to salvation\u201d booklets (Campus Crusade), the \u201cPoor Jesus\u201d syndrome, bumper stickers, \u201cChristian\u201d slogans, and the \u201cfollow-up\u201d program. I could add many more, e.g., mandatory tithing, fund-raising letters, \u201cprayer cloths,\u201d church buildings, public relations schemes, numerical church growth (over against individual spiritual growth), the biblical Canon, denominations, tongues for every believer, congregational government, \u201cself-help\u201d Christian psychology, the word \u201cTrinity,\u201d missionary and TV evangelist pleas for financial support, \u201caccepting Jesus as your personal Savior,\u201d\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>, and evangelistic tracts. I could go on to defend the Rosary itself (both its content and propriety) but that\u2019s a whole \u2018nother subject and I\u2019m trying to be as brief as I can (I\u2019d be glad to later if you want me to). Luther accepted it, so again, it can\u2019t be all bad. Here I just want to show how absurd your above statement is.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Is Purgatory Biblical?<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">The Bible does not teach that in order to enter heaven, purgatorial suffering is necessary. {p. 108}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">The Scriptures commonly cited in defense of purgatory . . . can only be so appropriated under Catholic premises. {p. 109}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">I\u2019m asked to believe that all the great Christian theologians, saints, Fathers, Doctors, philosophers, etc. were all biblically-illiterate dolts for 1500 years until (and even after) Dr. Luther came on the scene?! Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Jerome, Ambrose, Athanasius, Leo the Great, Irenaeus, Cyprian, Chrysostom, St. Francis, Bonaventure, St. Francis de Sales, Bellarmine, Pascal (whom you quote), Descartes, Shakespeare, Dante, Chesterton, Newman . . . all these people were (in effect) idiots who accepted an utterly unbiblical tradition; they couldn\u2019t arrive at the same apparent, \u201cperspicuous\u201d truth that someone with a mind like, say, Dave Hunt, can \u201cknow\u201d in his third-grade Sunday school class. Yet C.S. Lewis (and many high-church Anglicans) could believe in it, and he was not overly-enamored with the Catholic Church. And he is loved by evangelicals who manage to ignore or overlook his non-evangelical views on many issues.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">It\u2019s one thing to make blanket statements about another\u2019s position \u2013 yet another to refute it step-by-step with actual reasoning and exegetical analysis. I challenge you or any other Protestant to do that with any of my website papers (or books) in defense of Catholicism. If you can\u2019t, then it seems obvious to me that you shouldn\u2019t write books which insult and bear false witness about fellow Christians \u2013 yes, \u201cbrothers in Christ.\u201d This matter is of the greatest seriousness on your part. Again, if you\u2019re wrong, you\u2019ll have an awful lot to account for on the Day of Judgment. I\u2019m trying to spare you from that misery, so you ought to give my material (and that of other Catholic apologists) the utmost consideration for your own sake and that of all that you reach and teach (James 3:1).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">The Tired and Outrageously False Charges of Pelagianism and a \u201cDifferent Gospel\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">How close one gets to Christianity isn\u2019t the issue. The issue is, Does one accept the gospel or not? . . . That\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">[Catholicism]\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">teaches salvation by works proves that it is not a Christian religion.\u201d {p. 219; cf. similar slanders on pp. 141, 183, 186, 188, 220}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">More of the same falsehoods. How sad and unnecessary.\u00a0<i>Sola fide<\/i>, I regretfully inform you again, is not the gospel. That\u2019s why ECT entailed no compromise on \u201cfaith alone\u201d on the Protestants\u2019 part. I\u2019ll cite Scripture as to the definition of \u201cgospel.\u201d Protestants, of all people \u2013 the ones who believe in\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>\u00a0\u2013 ought to get their definition from the Bible, but in this case, you don\u2019t, preferring Luther (i.e., a \u201ctradition of men\u201d) to Scripture itself. I\u2019m no theologian, and am fully aware of my limitations, but it seems to me that the Bible is clear (\u201cperspicuous\u201d?) as to the content of the gospel. After all, we have a record of the apostles preaching it immediately after Pentecost. So we know very specifically what it is \u2013 apart from abstract analysis about the relationship of justification and sanctification, faith and works, God\u2019s enabling grace and our cooperation, etc. Those things are helpful and important philosophical\/theological theories as to how salvation is appropriated to us, but they are not the gospel itself.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">St. Peter\u2019s first sermon in the Upper Room (Acts 2:22-40) is certainly the gospel. In it he utters not a word about \u201cfaith alone.\u201d When the hearers ask him (2:37) \u201cwhat shall we do?,\u201d Peter didn\u2019t say, \u201cAll you need is faith.\u201d Rather he told them to \u201cRepent, and be baptized . . . for the remission of sins\u201d (2:38). So right in the first instance of the gospel preached after Pentecost we find the apostle Peter descending into the slime pit of \u201cunbiblical\u201d sacramentalism and \u201cworks\u201d \u2013 baptismal regeneration. How could he be so dim-witted and \u201cCatholic,\u201d and right after receiving the Holy Spirit at that? No wonder he was the first pope! He couldn\u2019t even figure out grace. Or so you would have it.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">St. Paul defines the gospel in Acts 13:16-41 as the resurrection of Jesus (32-33). Again in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 Paul says the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Right after Paul got \u201csaved,\u201d as you would say, what did he do? He got baptized, in order to \u201cwash away\u201d his sins, as he recounts in Acts 22:16. So now Paul, too, (who everyone \u201cknows\u201d was a Protestant) believes in baptismal regeneration and ceases to be a Christian, according to your logic on p. 154 and elsewhere. It\u2019s easy for you to rationalize the passage away as merely symbolic, but nothing in the text and context suggests \u2013 let alone requires \u2013 this. Your symbolic view, is, I submit, an extrascriptural bias applied to the text in order to bolster your preconceived notions of \u201cfaith alone\u201d and anti-sacramentalism.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Even Jesus couldn\u2019t get the formula right. When the rich young ruler asked Him how to be saved (Luke 18:18-25), He didn\u2019t say \u201cjust believe in Me with faith alone.\u201d Rather, He commanded him to do a work, to sell all that he had. Can you imagine Billy Graham (whom I also greatly admire) telling someone that (or yourself)? Jesus even rewards according to \u201cworks\u201d rather than an utter reliance on\u00a0<i>sola fide<\/i>\u00a0(Matthew 16:27). And He appears to tie salvation causally (conjunction \u201cfor\u201d in v. 35) to works of charity, in the famous separation of the sheep and goats passage (Matthew 25:31-46). Now, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll say that Protestants have reasonable alternate interpretations of all these passages. But the Catholic interpretations are just as valid prima facie, based on the plain language and exegesis (I think more so).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">I think you are confusing the gospel with commentary and elaborate explanation of it. How justification and sanctification are precisely related to one another and the question of extrinsic vs. intrinsic justification are theological constructs, but not the gospel itself. They are supremely important, but, given the primacy of the Lord Jesus \u2013 His incarnation and atoning death and resurrection and ascension, and God\u2019s undeserved grace in the theology of both Protestants and Catholics, I don\u2019t see why we should separate on the basis of philosophical theology. Sure, I think you\u2019re wrong on justification, but, consistent with my worldview, I can\u2019t deem you \u201cnon-Christian\u201d on that basis. Your view, though, requires you to renounce Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and all Arminian Protestants and others who have \u201cCatholic\u201d views on one thing or another, but you won\u2019t face this. So, in addition to being dead wrong as to who is and isn\u2019t a Christian, you are logically inconsistent and uncharitable (sorry!).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Since Protestants and Catholics both agree that salvation comes as a result of Christ\u2019s atoning work on our behalf and is ultimately His work of grace, and that good works ought to be present in every Christian\u2019s life, they can agree in the ECT statement and concur on the essentials of the gospel. Haggling over the place or existence of man\u2019s free will and cooperation with God (which is an inter-Protestant squabble as well) should not eclipse the fact that both parties accept the gospel of the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You\u2019ve collapsed what you think is the gospel down to a mythical singular \u201cProtestant\u201d definition of it, which is in reality the Presbyterian\/Reformed\/Baptist view \u2013 typical of the denominational tunnel vision of Protestants. Each denomination thinks it represents the truest, best, most pure brand of Protestantism, and hence, Christianity. Tsk, tsk.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">The So-Called \u201cApocrypha\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">The Apocrypha . . . had already been rejected as false by Jesus Christ, the apostles, and the church for 15 centuries. {p. 145}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">This is an outright falsehood.\u00a0<i>The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church\u00a0<\/i>(2nd ed., edited by F. L Cross &amp; E.A. Livingstone, Oxford University Press, 1983), a well-respected non-Catholic source, states:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: black;\">Down to the 4th century, the Church generally accepted all the Books of the Septuagint as canonical. Greek and Latin writers alike (e.g., Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian) cite both classes of Books without distinction . . . With few exceptions [St. Jerome and St. Hilary] . . . Western writers (esp. Augustine) continued to consider all as equally canonical . . . At the Reformation, Protestant leaders, ignoring the traditional acceptance of all the Books of the Septuagint in the early Church . . . refused the status of inspired Scripture [to the \u201cApocrypha\u201d] . . . {pp. 70-71}<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">As for the Apostles and Jesus, everyone agrees that they used and cited the Septuagint, which contained the \u201cApocrypha.\u201d The earliest Greek manuscripts contain these books interspersed with (not separate from) the others, proving they were part of the early Christian Bible. The Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397) listed them as canonical, along with the other 39 books which Protestants accept. Who are Protestants to decide 1100 years later that these Councils erred on some books but not others? The only reason you have the Bible you do is because you inconsistently accept the authority of these Councils as to the Canon (except for the \u201cApocrypha\u201d).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">The late Protestant rejection of these books is largely based on inadequate and arbitrary grounds: the clear teaching in some of prayers for the dead and the intercession of saints and angels, which had been unbroken Christian (and Jewish) Tradition. This is the same rationale that caused Luther nearly to toss out James and other books, based on his personal aversion to their (Catholic) teachings. Thus, Protestants have \u201csubtracted\u201d from the Bible, rather than Catholics \u201cadding\u201d to it. Yours is the radical and novel innovation (i.e., corruption) not ours. The practice of separating the Apocryphal books from the others dates back no further than 1520, according to\u00a0<i>The New English Bible<\/i>\u00a0(Oxford, 1976, \u201cIntroduction to the Apocrypha,\u201d p.iii). And, of course, the original KJV contained it, too. So, again, you are refuted entirely from Protestant sources and the indisputable facts of Church history.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">A Glaring Lack of Understanding<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">We do understand Roman Catholic convictions. {p. 149}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">I\u2019m afraid not, based on how I\u2019ve answered you in this letter and exposed numerous factual, theological and logical errors on your part. I\u2019ll grant that you basically can state our positions with a modicum of objectivity, but understand them? No way! Not fully \u2013 or else you could never classify us as non-Christian, which is a self-defeating position for any Protestant to take, based \u2013 among other things \u2013 on your obvious derivation from us. A stream cannot rise above its source. I challenge you, on the other hand, to show me anywhere where I\u2019ve misunderstood your position (or even that of the many Protestants who disagree with several of your dogmatic positions).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Were the Apostles Proto-Protestants?<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">Certainly, the apostles never taught the doctrines unique to Roman Catholic theology, whether or not some in the Church\u2019s history have. {p. 198}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Obviously, we feel that the apostles did teach our doctrines (some in kernel form \u2013 according to the notion of development). Of course, the next \u201cgeneration,\u201d the Fathers, were Catholic, too, and undeniably so, most noticably with regard to such doctrines as the Real Presence, sacramental Baptism, Bishops, and Apostolic Succession (which mitigates against\u00a0<i>sola Scriptura<\/i>). If you disagree, then I think it is your Christian and intellectual duty to show us (me, anyway) how we are wrong, by dealing with our best biblical arguments (you can ignore history if you like, but you can\u2019t totally avoid reason and Scripture).<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The Ubiquitous Objection: Priestly Celibacy<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">Consider the priestly ban on marriage and Rome\u2019s \u2018imposing an unnatural burden upon her clergy that very few could bear.\u2019 {p. 215}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Now we\u2019re in the realm of insipid and shallow rhetoric. In bringing this up (inevitable in every anti-Catholic work), you reveal that you accept one of the fundamental tenets of the sexual revolution: that sexual abstinence is well-nigh impossible and unnatural. With such \u201creasoning\u201d we might as well hand out condoms to all teenagers over 13 and let them fornicate with our blessing since they supposedly can\u2019t do otherwise (thereby reducing them to mere beasts, devoid of God\u2019s image and strengthening power)! Luther and virtually all of the early Protestant leaders felt the same way.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\">Yet Scripture clearly teaches something different (Matt 19:12, 1 Cor 7:7-9,20,25-28,32-38), and it seems that, more and more, Catholics are the only Christians who agree with Scripture on this point, rather than the prevailing winds of cultural and moral decadence. It must be stated forcefully that no one is forced to be celibate. Every priest who feels called to the Catholic Western or Latin Rites (the Eastern Rites of Catholicism allow marriage) ought to simultaneously feel called by God to celibacy, according to the teaching of the above scriptures. If not, let them go to the Orthodox or Episcopalians or any other Protestant denomination. This is as silly as a man whining that he can\u2019t join the army because he can\u2019t stand constantly being with 30 other men. Numerous other analogies could be given. Every institution has the right to create whatever rules and regulations it deems necessary for its purposes.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Who Were the \u201cTrue Christians\u201d with \u201cCorrect Doctrinal Belief\u201d in the Middle Ages?<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">What makes a religion Christian is both a) a fundamental body of correct doctrinal belief that true Christians have always believed in without compromise, and b) religious practices and life-style among its members that conform to biblical standards. {p. 218}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Please give me the definitive (infallible?) list of your \u201ccorrect doctrinal beliefs\u201d and then I can see what Protestants will be eliminated from Christianity for not adhering to it. And where are these \u201ctrue Christians\u201d who have always believed this \u201cProtestant Orthodoxy\u201d? You will have one heaven of a time seeking to establish this through history, since it \u201cjust ain\u2019t so.\u201d Geisler and MacKenzie state that:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: black;\">Between the time of the apostle Paul and the Reformation . . . scarcely anyone taught imputed righteousness (or forensic justification).<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">{<i>Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences<\/i>, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 1995, p. 502}<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Likewise, Kenneth Samples (following the views of Walter Martin), in an article on whether Catholicism is Christian, writes that if Catholicism and Orthodoxy are considered as \u201cnon-Christian,\u201d then:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">There was no authentic Christian church during most of the medieval period . . . There was no independent, nondenominational, Bible-believing church on the corner (or in the caves) during most of the Middle Ages. Additionally, the schismatic groups who were around at the time were grossly heretical. So much for the gates of hell not prevailing against the church (Matt 16:18).<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">{<i>Christian Research Journal,<\/i>\u00a0Spring 1993, p. 37)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">This is your dilemma \u2013 finding the Protestant \u201cchurch\u201d throughout history. This has always been a Protestant \u201cAchilles\u2019 Heel.\u201d<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">As for \u201cbiblical lifestyles,\u201d evangelicals are in rough shape. Apart from all kinds of compromises with worldly, modernistic norms, there is increasing sexual sin, such as a rising divorce rate and widespread fornication. I\u2019m not the only one saying this. There is plenty of healthy self-examination going on right now within evangelicalism on this score. For one compelling example, what about contraception? Without doubt, this was considered a grave sin by all Christians until 1930, when the Anglicans adopted it for \u201chard cases\u201d (where have we heard that rhetoric before?). Luther and Calvin and all the Protestant Founders condemned it unequivocally, even as murder. So who upholds this previously unanimously-held Christian moral position today? Catholics. We\u2019re more in line with Luther and Calvin than you are.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">If you want to adopt the same sort of progressive, relativistic morality as the humanists and liberals, go ahead. As for me and my house, we will follow unanimous Christian Tradition and continue to hold that contraception is a grave sin. It has a clear and unarguable philosophical and sociological link to the rise of fornication and promiscuity and abortion. One sin always leads to others. So much for the supposed moral superiority of evangelicals.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Those Wicked, Bible-Hating Popes<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">All the popes have ever done is to uphold Catholic doctrines that deny what the Bible teaches . . . Catholic tradition also denies what the Bible teaches . . . All this teaching authority has done historically is to pervert what the Bible teaches. {p. 220}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Here we enter the realm of farce and sheer silliness. You refute this yourself elsewhere, so I don\u2019t have to waste my time doing it. On p. 255, you even applaud Pope St. Leo the Great (whom, you blithely inform us,\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cwas not a pope,\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0contrary to most church historians) for his marvelous work\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201con the side of orthodoxy\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0in crafting\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cone of the classic creeds of Christendom\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0(that of the Two Natures of Christ which Protestants accept). Then you mention Pope St. Gregory the Great, who\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cmay be considered the first pope\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0(thank you for small favors). Since he was a pope, then\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201call\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0he could do would be to\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cdeny what the Bible teaches\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0(hence Christianity itself). Yet you contradict yourself in spectacular fashion when you turn around and say\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201che sent so many missionaries to England that the country was converted to Christianity\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">! This is a classic example of the historical schizophrenia of many Protestants. Nothing further needs to be said. This ought to make you blush with embarrassment.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Marian Doctrines (and Martin Luther)<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">By your reasoning (or more accurately, lack thereof) on p. 221, the Catholic Marian doctrines make whoever holds them non-Christian. After citing Catholic Marian beliefs, and other Catholic \u201cdistinctives,\u201d you assert:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">There are so many ways in which Catholicism is not biblical that it is logically impossible to classify it as a Christian religion.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Therefore, without question, Martin Luther must be tossed onto your dung heap of false religions and religionists, since he held to most of these beliefs. How could our differences be \u201cinsurmountable\u201d when Super-Pope Luther himself held important aspects of both sides in his own theology and person?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>More Factual Error<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">At Vatican II the bodily assumption of Mary was contested. {p. 260}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">I don\u2019t think so. Since this was defined as dogma in 1950, it was no longer technically or \u201clegally\u201d possible to dispute it within Catholicism at a Council. Perhaps you are referring to the question as to whether she died or not before her Assumption, which hasn\u2019t been defined as dogma.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Have Only Catholics Been Intolerant?<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\">Hasn\u2019t Rome persecuted Evangelicals throughout history, while Evangelical sins in this regard have been almost nonexistent by comparison? {p. 262}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\"><span style=\"color: blue; font-family: inherit;\">During and since the Reformation, Rome has openly persecuted Christians . . . It is a sad commentary on Catholicism . . . that throughout history hundreds of thousands of Protestants died at the hands of Catholics. {p. 265}<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\">Since no one ever hears about the myriad instances of Protestant atrocities and intolerance, what do you expect them to think? They believe (as I used to) the myth of Protestant tolerance, religious freedom, sweetness and light, superior righteousness, etc. (which you perpetuate). But this isn\u2019t quite fair, is it? Once they see the other side of the story, their perspective changes greatly. For it\u2019s far worse for a group which claims to uphold individual freedom of conscience and of private judgment, to persecute not only Catholics, but also their fellow revolutionaries.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Calvin\u2019s Geneva (the \u201ccity on a hill\u201d) and good old England were perhaps the worst places to be during the post-\u201cReformation\u201d period, if you happened to disagree with Calvin or Henry VIII respectively. Nor was it very pleasant or safe to be a Jew, Anabaptist, or peasant (in 1525) in Luther\u2019s Germany, or a \u201cwitch\u201d (whether alleged or real) in any Protestant country, or anything but an Anglican or Puritan in old Virginny and Massachusetts, or an Irishman anywhere in the British Isles (they killed almost every priest in Ireland), or St. Thomas More (who opposed divorce) anywhere within range of Henry\u2019s henchmen. Selective indignation, whether political or religious, has always been severely irksome to me. If past persecution disqualifies a religious body from Christianity, then the only Christians left are the Mennonites, Quakers and the Amish, and I don\u2019t think you\u2019re any of those, so we\u2019re both infidels, I guess. I neither defend nor admire the Inquisition or Crusades, but at the same time I point out little-known Protestant shortcomings. Truth is always stranger than fiction.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">A Different Trinity and Holy Spirit????<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">On pp. 267-8 you again enter the fairyland of surreal absurdity and Orwellian doublespeak by asserting that the Catholic Church has\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cto one degree or another . . . distorted these key theological doctrines.\u201d<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: blue;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Among the listed doctrines are the Godhead and the Trinity and the Holy Spirit. Please inform me as to how Catholics have\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cdistorted\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0the above doctrines, if you could, as I don\u2019t have the slightest clue whatsoever. Also, please tell me how Protestants differ from our perspective on these topics (after all, you say you could\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: blue;\">\u201cwrite an entire text on each one\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">\u00a0chronicling our errors). All I can come up with is strong Protestant Nestorian tendencies in Christology and Copeland and Hagin\u2019s errors (Jesus needs to be \u201cborn again\u201d). Other than that I\u2019m baffled. If you can\u2019t elaborate on this, you owe Catholics a public apology, and you should also revise your book. While you\u2019re at it, you might want to consider taking out all the statements that I believe I\u2019ve shown (directly or by logical extension) to be falsehoods.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: red;\">Conclusion and Friendly Challenge to My Protestant Brothers<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: red;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">That\u2019s about it for now, then. I\u2019d also be happy to deal with any other particulars in your book you might want to ask me about. And I\u2019m very curious to see what Dr. Ankerberg thinks of all this, too. I would like to request that he at least read this letter. If so, I\u2019d love to know his one- or two-sentence verdict on my effort.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">As with the other anti-Catholic (and a few ecumenical) Protestants, I challenge you, too, to an amiable debate in your newsletter (if you have one) or perhaps pamphlet in a point-counterpoint format, like the IVP \u201cFour Views On . . .\u201d series, which I love. Let the readers decide for themselves, after seeing the best shot that we both can put up. I have no fear or qualms whatsoever. Do you? If my case is so bad, then why not let me be a \u201cfool for Christ\u201d?<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Sincerely, looking forward with anticipation to your reply,<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">Dave Armstrong<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">P.S. I hope you\u2019re not offended by my vigorous critiques of arguments. I assure you I have nothing personal against you.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: black;\">[as I noted above, Dr. Weldon did not reply to my critique, nor have I ever heard from him since \u2013 more than six and-a-half years, as of this later note]<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\"color: black;\"><br>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[<strong>2-16-10<\/strong>: and now it is over<em> twenty<\/em> years with no response, even though Dr. Weldon had written, \u201c<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I would be happy to respond to any letter you send evaluating our new book.\u201d<\/span>]<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>. . . in their book,\u00a0Protestants and Catholics: Do They Now Agree? Yours Truly in April 1995, with my first two sons. It was Paul\u2019s fourth birthday ,and Michael was almost two. * * * (May 1995) * * * * * Co-Author John Weldon wrote to me in a letter dated 19 May 1995: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":6154,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231],"tags":[855,2361,2143,2144],"class_list":["post-6151","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-john-ankerberg","tag-john-weldon"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Critique of Ankerberg and Weldon&#039;s Anti-Catholicism<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Comprehensive reply to a letter that evangelical apologist Dr. John Weldon wrote to me, dated 19 May 1995; refuting anti-Catholic charges.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Critique of Ankerberg and Weldon&#039;s Anti-Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Comprehensive reply to a letter that evangelical apologist Dr. John Weldon wrote to me, dated 19 May 1995; refuting anti-Catholic charges.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/critique-of-ankerberg-weldons-anti-catholicism.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-02-16T20:09:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-03-27T22:43:11+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/02\/DAVE04951.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"640\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"425\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"35 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/critique-of-ankerberg-weldons-anti-catholicism.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/critique-of-ankerberg-weldons-anti-catholicism.html\",\"name\":\"Critique of Ankerberg and Weldon's Anti-Catholicism\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2016-02-16T20:09:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-03-27T22:43:11+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"Comprehensive reply to a letter that evangelical apologist Dr. John Weldon wrote to me, dated 19 May 1995; 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6151","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6151"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6151\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6154"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6151"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6151"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6151"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}