{"id":62148,"date":"2021-12-30T16:17:15","date_gmt":"2021-12-30T20:17:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=62148"},"modified":"2021-12-30T16:17:15","modified_gmt":"2021-12-30T20:17:15","slug":"dispute-on-the-church-in-the-nt","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/12\/dispute-on-the-church-in-the-nt.html","title":{"rendered":"Dispute on “The Church” in the NT"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Justin<\/a> is a Seventh-Day Adventist. His words (from a combox<\/a> on my blog) will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Ecclesia just means assembly or congregation, all examples of church in the NT are little c-churches.<\/span><\/p>\n

This is sheer nonsense (and an extraordinarily ignorant thing for any serious student of the Bible to assert):<\/p>\n

Acts 20:28<\/b>\u00a0(RSV) Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.<\/p>\n

1 Corinthians 10:32<\/b>\u00a0Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,<\/p>\n

1 Corinthians 11:22<\/b>\u00a0. . . do you despise the church of God . . .?<\/p>\n

1 Corinthians 12:28\u00a0<\/b>And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues.<\/p>\n

1 Corinthians 15:9<\/b>\u00a0For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.<\/p>\n

Galatians 1:13\u00a0<\/b>For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it;<\/p>\n

Ephesians 1:22\u00a0<\/b>and he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church,<\/p>\n

Ephesians 3:10, 21<\/b>\u00a0that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. . . . [21] to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.<\/p>\n

Ephesians 5:23-25, 27, 29, 32<\/b>\u00a0For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. [24] As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. [25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, . . . [27] that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. . . . [29] For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, . . . [32] This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;<\/p>\n

Philippians 3:6\u00a0<\/b>as to zeal a persecutor of the church, as to righteousness under the law blameless.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

1 Timothy 3:15<\/b>\u00a0if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The Holy Scripture says we are one \u201cbody\u201d in Christ, it doesn\u2019t say we are one church in Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n

This is nonsense as well, because St. Paul writes:<\/p>\n

Colossians 1:18, 24<\/b>\u00a0He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. . . . [24] Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ\u2019s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In other words, the Body of Christ = \u201cthe Church.\u201d Therefore, if there is \u201cone body in Christ\u201d (Rom 12:5) and this \u201cbody\u201d is \u201cthe Church\u201d (Col 1:18, 24), then there is one Church in Christ also, by simple logic (a = b, therefore if a = c, b also = c). The Church is also called the \u201cbody of Christ\u201d (1 Cor 12:27; Eph 4:12).<\/p>\n

The Bible states that Paul persecuted the Church, and Jesus Himself equates that with persecuting Himself (since the Church is the Body of Christ):<\/p>\n

Acts 9:4-5<\/b>\u00a0And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, \u201cSaul, Saul, why do you persecute me?\u201d [5] And he said, \u201cWho are you, Lord?\u201d And he said, \u201cI am Jesus, whom you are persecuting;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Jesus also referred to \u201cmy Church\u201d when He commissioned Peter to be the leader of it (the first pope):<\/p>\n

Matthew 16:18<\/b>\u00a0And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The Roman Catholics high jacked<\/span> [sic] the term Ecclesia<\/em> to refer to an organisation rather than to people<\/b>\u00a0(Protestants have kept the same terminology usage because it is now part of the vernacular but it\u2019s not biblical in its meaning)<\/span><\/p>\n

The claim that Catholics have perverted the biblical meaning of \u201cchurch\u201d is the exact opposite of the truth. It\u2019s Protestants and your own Adventists who have done so. But many Protestants still refer to \u201cthe Church\u201d because it is an undeniable NT concept. They just deny that it is institutional, historical, founded on apostolic and papal succession, centered in Rome, and infallible and indefectible, as the Bible teaches.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 3,900+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0fifty books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0return to the Church<\/a>, or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n

PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit<\/strong>:<\/span> user32212<\/a> (1-23-18).<\/span> [Pixabay<\/a> \/ Pixabay License<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Summary<\/em>: Seventh-Day Adventist disputes the use of \u201cthe Church\u201d in the New Testament, referring to an institutional organization, founded by Jesus Christ upon Peter.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Justin is a Seventh-Day Adventist. His words (from a combox on my blog) will be in blue. ***** Ecclesia just means assembly or congregation, all examples of church in the NT are little c-churches. This is sheer nonsense (and an extraordinarily ignorant thing for any serious student of the Bible to assert): Acts 20:28\u00a0(RSV) Take […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":62151,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[131],"tags":[15566,8158,2440,15572,10424,163,15563,15569,2381],"class_list":["post-62148","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-ecclesiology","tag-assemblies","tag-body-of-christ","tag-church","tag-church-of-god","tag-ecclesia","tag-ecclesiology","tag-ekklesia","tag-nt-the-church","tag-the-church"],"yoast_head":"\nDispute on "The Church" in the NT Dispute on "The Church" in the NT<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Justin is a Seventh-Day Adventist. 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Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62148","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=62148"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62148\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/62151"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=62148"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=62148"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=62148"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}