\n
(1-13-09)<\/p>\n
* * * * *<\/p>\n<\/div>\n
1. Let Protestants produce an express statement in the Bible, informing us that the Church lacks binding authority, or that it cannot be trusted to preserve true doctrine.<\/p>\n
2. If the Catholic Church is placing its authority \u201cabove God,\u201d then the Church fathers en masse <\/span>are doing the same, because they all appeal to Church and conciliar authority and apostolic succession.<\/p>\n3. What rational person can argue that congregationalism was the normative form of church government throughout Church history, or that episcopacy was not<\/span> the norm, and was an \u201cunbiblical\u201d system of governance?<\/p>\n4. So the Church is to be obeyed unless and until the time (conveniently the 16th century) when it shouldn\u2019t<\/span> be obeyed: i.e., when some self-anointed quasi-prophet knows better and decides to dissent and carry along whole countries with him.<\/p>\n5. Luther couldn\u2019t care less about previous Church teaching or patristic teaching, if it disagreed with his own. In due course, he was willing to ditch St. Augustine because he disagreed too much with Luther. How, then, is this a view which respects Church authority?<\/p>\n
6. Catholics don\u2019t put the Church above God any more than Protestants put the Bible<\/span> above God. We think God guides the Catholic Church (just as Protestants and Catholics both agree that God guided and inspired the Bible-writers; but infallibility is a far lesser gift than inspiration).<\/p>\n7. Even if we grant this invisible church, the problem remains of identifying the doctrines<\/span> of this ethereal, nebulous, mysterious entity. And until the Protestant can do that, it is folly and a pipe dream to pretend it is a foundation or support of \u201ctruth\u201d (1 Tim 3:15). It is playing games with reality and logic and the Bible.<\/p>\n8. Luther\u2019s ecclesiology was contradictory: it sometimes referred to the invisible church and other times to a visible one. Lutheranism, after all, adopted a state church model and gave secular princes the power that bishops once had, and this was quite concrete and \u201cvisible\u201d indeed.<\/p>\n
9. And why must Church be pitted against Scripture as if the two are unalterably opposed and cannot be synthesized? This is not the way that the Bible presents the relationship between the two, or between Scripture and tradition. Why is it impermissible to believe (in faith) in a harmony between the three and a protection by the Holy Spirit from error?<\/p>\n
10. Why were the Anabaptists not allowed to be anti-traditional against the five or ten-year-old \u201ctradition\u201d of Lutheranism or Calvinism, and why were they drowned by Lutherans and Calvinists for their dissent, while it was perfectly reasonable for the latter to be anti-traditional against the 1500-year-old Catholic Church? The inconsistencies and absurdities are literally endless.<\/p>\n
11. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that one has demonstrated Catholic self-contradiction in dogmatic proclamations: does that automatically make sola Scriptura<\/span> true by default? Of course it does not<\/span>. So the Protestant has as much burden of proof in establishing sola Scriptura<\/span>, as the Catholic does for his system. And Protestants have failed to do so in no
\nuncertain terms.<\/p>\n12. When Protestants say the church council is merely \u201chuman\u201d (in order to dismiss their authority), they forget that this is also true of apostles and prophets. They, too, are just \u201chuman,\u201d and sinners, yet God used them to write the inspired revelation of Holy Scripture. We believe God can protect councils and popes in the far lesser way of infallibility, which is far less of a miracle than inspiration.<\/p>\n
13. Protestants simply assume that Catholic doctrines can\u2019t be harmonized with Scripture; therefore they conclude that there is a fundamental disconnect between the two, with Church authority or tradition placed higher than the Scripture they supposedly contravene. But the premise remains to be proven. Most Protestants are also unaware of Catholic (and patristic) biblical arguments in favor of Catholic doctrines.<\/p>\n
14. The Jerusalem Council as described in Scripture, is a crystal-clear instance of infallible Church authority. Therefore, since Scripture is infallible (and \u201cconservative\u201d Protestants agree), Catholics do not have a fallible belief about infallible authority, but clearly an infallible<\/span> belief about infallible authority. That\u2019s self-consistent; it\u2019s based on clear and explicit Scripture, which is more than we can say about Protestants in the present conundrum.<\/p>\n15. It is not necessary for each person to have infallible certainty; they simply have to accept the teaching: most conveniently presented in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. To assert that every Catholic must have personal infallible certainty of infallible doctrines, one must presuppose that every Christian believer is a philosopher, with a special grasp of epistemology, which is patently ridiculous. Catholicism is not a philosophical exercise; it is a religious faith.<\/p>\n
16. One doesn\u2019t think that a \u201cpreserver\u201d of something was the origin<\/span> of that same thing. That would be as foolish as saying that the salt used to preserve meat (in pre-refrigerator times) created the meat (salt would then equal a bull or a pig). It\u2019s absurd. A guard or guardian doesn\u2019t originate<\/span> the things he guards (be it a child or a bicycle or a bank). Thus the Catholic Church, in claiming to be a preserver and guardian of Christian doctrine, is obviously not implying that it originated<\/span> same.<\/p>\n17. So Joe Protestant can dissent from any given Protestant group on Luther\u2019s own foundational principles<\/span>. How then does any Church possess \u201creal authority\u201d? Such authority must be binding for it to be \u201creal\u201d or sufficient as a unitive force, just as civil law is. If everyone could theoretically and actually dissent from civil law, society would be in chaos. Yet in Christianity, such dissent was raised to a high plateau by Martin Luther and the radical Protestant principle of private judgment.<\/p>\n18. \u201cSola ecclesia<\/span>\u201d is a false description of the Catholic system of authority. This is not a Catholic term (whereas sola Scriptura<\/span> is the Protestant\u2019s own terminology for his<\/span> principle). We don\u2019t believe in \u201cChurch alone.\u201d We believe in the \u201cthree-legged stool\u201d of Bible, Church, and Tradition, which is quite a different concept indeed. The implicit reasoning here seems to be: \u201cif you don\u2019t accept Bible Alone, you must believe in Church alone,\u201d as if there are not other<\/span> possible positions besides this stark contrast: one extreme to another.<\/p>\n19. Many Protestants argue that no particular teaching on ecclesiology is found in the Bible. How, then, do the Protestant ecclesiologies not fall prey to arbitrariness, since Scripture is not \u201csufficient\u201d for authoritatively determining ecclesiology? The problem is not the lack of an authoritative pronouncement in Protestant tradition (Westminster or Augsburg Confessions et al) but the fact that Scripture is not at all \u201csufficient\u201d to resolve what would seem to be a fundamental question: the structure and form of the Christian Church.<\/p>\n
20. Believing in an infallible Church does not in any way, shape, or form, require some sort of autonomy from God. We\u2019re not the final authority: God<\/span> is. We believe in faith that He guides His Church. Protestants appear to lack the faith to believe that God could<\/span> or would<\/span> do that, which is really the fundamental problem in this discussion: can<\/span> God do that and would<\/span> He do it, and did<\/span> He do so? He certainly did in the Jerusalem Council, recorded in Acts 15, so why is it so unthinkable to hold that He continues<\/span> to guide His Church? We\u2019re not orphans<\/span> . . .<\/p>\n21. But even if Catholics weren\u2019t allowed at all to question Catholic teaching (which is largely<\/span> the case), that is still a different proposition from whether or not that teaching is biblically-based or not. If the Catholic Church\u2019s doctrine is indeed entirely harmonious with Scripture (as I believe), then it may, by its God-granted authority, limit the amount of \u201cchallenge\u201d it receives from Catholics (just as Protestants have their creeds and confessions which must<\/span> be adhered to within the denominational \u201ccircle\u201d).<\/p>\n22. Perhaps a Protestant would or could argue that Protestant leaders simply jumped in and replaced the authority that was already in place and had been consistently developing for the previous 1500 years? But on what basis<\/span>? Why did the Council of Nicaea or Chalcedon have authority to rebuke and anathematize Arian and Monophysite heretics, yet suddenly the 16th century Church no longer had the prerogative to rebuke Lutheran and Calvinist heretics? What sense does that<\/span> make? On what grounds are we to adopt this radical change of principle?<\/p>\n23. Why is it inconceivable that the Church is simply God\u2019s chosen instrument to preserve and promulgate His gospel truth and fullness of spiritual and theological truth? One might quibble with the fact<\/span> of that or with the identification of the Catholic Church headed by the pope in Rome as that biblical one true Church which is God\u2019s own: begun and protected by Him. That is one thing. But many Protestants go far beyond<\/span> that: for them it is a wholly logical<\/span> argument: one who believes in infallibility is inexorably led to deny the authority of God<\/span>, which is
\nsheer nonsense.<\/p>\n24. Protestants usually contend for either of the following two scenarios:<\/p>\n
A) God is unable<\/span> to preserve Christian doctrine without error throughout history by means of (in and of themselves, without His aid) fallen, imperfect, fallible men and an imperfect Church run by such men (i.e., sinners).<\/p>\nB) God was, of course, able<\/span> to do this if He chose to (being omnipotent), but He chose not<\/span> to do so.<\/p><\/blockquote>\nIf they choose A<\/span>, why do they believe that? Is it because they deny God\u2019s omnipotence? If they chose B<\/span>, why do they think God would not protect true theology from corruption, especially in light of the biblical teaching that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth?<\/p>\n25. Many Protestants irrationally pit the ultimate head of the body (God) against the body of Christ, the Church, which makes no sense. Our claim is not that we are cut off from God and autonomous, but rather, that we are specially guided by the Holy Spirit and protected from error. It\u2019s like a child learning to ride a bike. The parent may be right behind, preventing a fall a few times. The child may not even be aware that the parent is doing so, and so thinks he or she is \u201cautonomous.\u201d But the parent prevented a fall. That is how God is in our doctrine of infallibility. It\u2019s the furthest thing from \u201cautonomous\u201d imaginable. God\u2019s in control of the whole thing.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Salzburg Cathedral. Photo by \u201cHans\u201d [public domain \/ Pixabay] * * * (1-13-09) * * * * * 1. Let Protestants produce an express statement in the Bible, informing us that the Church lacks binding authority, or that it cannot be trusted to preserve true doctrine. 2. If the Catholic Church is placing its authority […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":6381,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31,131],"tags":[514,1879,1878,33,1387,1386,535,1877,32,536,35,47],"class_list":["post-6379","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible-and-tradition","category-church-ecclesiology","tag-bible-only","tag-biblical-prooftexts","tag-biblical-theology","tag-christian-authority","tag-exegesis","tag-hermeneutics","tag-holy-bible","tag-infallible-authority","tag-rule-of-faith","tag-sacred-scripture","tag-scripture-alone","tag-sola-scriptura"],"yoast_head":"\n
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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6379","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6379"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6379\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6381"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6379"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6379"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6379"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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