{"id":64668,"date":"2022-05-31T09:32:14","date_gmt":"2022-05-31T13:32:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=64668"},"modified":"2023-02-21T15:25:17","modified_gmt":"2023-02-21T19:25:17","slug":"banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html","title":{"rendered":"Banzoli Sez Origen &#038; Tertullian are Sola Scripturists"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2022\/05\/BanzoliLucas.png\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-64662\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2022\/05\/BanzoliLucas-300x300.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lucasbanzoli.com\/2015\/07\/artigos-sobre-catolicismo.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Lucas Banzoli<\/a> is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ\u2019s human nature after His death.\u00a0He has a Master\u2019s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (but now inactive) for six blogs. He\u2019s <a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/c\/LucasBanzoli\/videos?app=desktop\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">active on YouTube<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">The words of Lucas Banzoli will be in\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>. I used\u00a0<em>Google Translate<\/em>\u00a0to transfer his Portugese text into English.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p>This is a reply to his article,<a href=\"http:\/\/heresiascatolicas.blogspot.com\/2016\/04\/tertuliano-e-origenes-em-defesa-da-sola.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cTertuliano e Or\u00edgenes em defesa da Sola Scriptura\u201d<\/a> [<em><span class=\"\">Tertullian and Origen in defense of Sola Scriptura<\/span><\/em>] (4-17-16).<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><strong><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\">\u2022 Tertullian (160 \u2013 220) <\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Tertullian also took pains to show the unique authority of the Bible: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cFor even the apostle, in his declaration \u2013 which he does not do without feeling the weight of it \u2013 that \u2018Christ died,\u2019 immediately adds, \u2018according to the Scriptures,\u2019 that he might lighten the harshness of the declaration by the authority of Scripture, and thus remove the offense from the reader\u201d [<em>Contra Pr\u00e1xeas<\/em>, 29]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>He notes that Paul argued from the Scriptures. So what? Of course he did. So do <em>all<\/em> the fathers, all Catholic apologists, theologians, bishops and popes, priests in their homilies, and I myself constantly in my work. This doesn\u2019t prove <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>. It proves use of Scripture as an inspired authority.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">For him, the only reason that could lead them to believe a doctrine is if it were given to them in Scripture: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cSurely one could not believe even these things even of the Son of God, unless they were given to us in the Scriptures.\u201d [<em>Contra Pr\u00e1xeas<\/em>, 16]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>This is an interesting one and carries some force, I grant [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0317.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">link<\/a>]. It can\u2019t be immediately dismissed like so many Protestant patristic arguments. But I think it could probably be interpreted in terms of material sufficiency. My own take on what he says here is that he is commenting on all these amazing events recounted in the Bible, that are so<em> much<\/em> so that it would be difficult for people to <em>believe<\/em> in them, <em>but<\/em> for the fact that they are included in the inspired revelation of the Bible. We know that elsewhere (as I will show below) Tertullian stated that extrabiblical doctrines (harmonious with the Bible) could and should be believed, so he is not absolutely against that.<\/p>\n<p>Remember, Catholics fully agree that the Bible is unique. We simply assert that there are other <em>infallible<\/em> \u2014 not inspired \u2014 authorities, too (Church and tradition).<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">He does not say, \u201cunless it is given to us in Scripture or tradition,\u201d but only in Scripture. It is the only authority that can lead a Christian to believe any doctrine. <\/span><\/p>\n<p>He says those things elsewhere (which Lucas will have to grapple with). But it could be partly an exaggerated or rhetorical argument as well, because <em>immediately after<\/em> this cited portion, he says: \u201cpossibly also they could not have been\u00a0believed\u00a0of the\u00a0Father, even if they had been given in the\u00a0Scriptures, since these men bring\u00a0<em>Him<\/em>\u00a0down into Mary\u2019s womb, and set Him before\u00a0Pilate\u2019s judgment-seat, and bury Him in the sepulchre of Joseph.\u201d He isn\u2019t going to argue that these things shouldn\u2019t be believed, despite being in the Bible. So it seems to me at least this second statement must be rhetorical and non-literal, with a particular meaning. If it is (which seems clear), then it is likely that the preceding statement may be, too.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">She is also enough, as he said: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cMake us happy to say that Christ died, the Son of the Father; and let that be enough, because the Scriptures have told us so.\u201d [<em>Contra Pr\u00e1xeas<\/em>, 29]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Material sufficiency . . .<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">For him, the \u201cvoice of the Holy Spirit\u201d present in Scripture is enough and no other deliberation is necessary beyond that: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cAnd why should I, a man of limited memory, suggest anything more? Why remember anything else in Scripture? As if the voice of the Holy Spirit wasn\u2019t enough; or else any other deliberation were necessary, if the Lord cursed and condemned by priority the artisans of these things, of whom He curses and condemns the worshippers!\u201d [<em>On Idolatry<\/em>, 4]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Well, yes, inspired Scripture is enough to settle problems. But this is not also a logically necessary denial that nothing <em>else<\/em> could also do so.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Against the school of Hermogenes, he declares one of the most emphatic statements of Sola Scriptura, saying: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cLet the school of Hermogenes show us that what it teaches is written: if it is not written, tremble at the anathema fulminated against those who add to Scripture, or take away from it.\u201d [<em>Contra Herm\u00f3genes<\/em>, 22] <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">There were, therefore, two options: either the doctrine was written (in Scripture) and valid; or, if it was not written, it represented an addition to the Scriptures, and would be the object of God\u2019s anathema withering. From this statement we see how seriously the early Church Fathers took the concept of Sola Scriptura, where only doctrines that were written in the Bible were accepted and where anything more or less than that was anathema.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The topic at hand here [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0313.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">link<\/a>] was whether creation was made out of nothing (<em>creatio ex nihilo<\/em>), or from \u201cunderlying matter.\u201d\u00a0 The sentence immediately before Lucas\u2019 citation reads: \u201cBut whether all things were made out of any underlying Matter, I have as yet failed anywhere to find.\u201d So Tertullian asks his opponent to produce such a passage (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/08\/seidensticker-folly-42-creation-ex-nihilo.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">I have produced the contrary<\/a>) and then notes that no one should add or take away from Scripture because the book of Revelation (22:18-19) tells us <em>not<\/em> to do so. No one disagrees with that. I don\u2019t see how this is any sort of proof of <em>sola Scriptura<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>This represents the entirety of Lucas\u2019 arguments with regard to Tertullian and the rule of faith (one semi-convincing proof that\u2019s not compelling). I can produce far more than this, because I don\u2019t <em>ignore<\/em> the many relevant passages in Tertullian, like Lucas does:<\/p>\n<p>The material below is from Philip Schaff\u2019s 38-volume collection of the Church fathers. Anglican Church historian J. N. D. Kelly summarizes Tertullian\u2019s view on the rule of faith:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[F]or Tertullian what was believed and preached in the churches was absolutely authoritative . . . on occasion [he] described this original message as tradition, using the word to denote the teaching delivered by the apostles, without any implied contrast between tradition and Scripture . . . Tertullian can refer [<em>de praescr<\/em>. 21; c.\u00a0<em>Marc<\/em>. I, 21;4 5] to the whole body of apostolic doctrine, whether delivered orally or in epistles, as\u00a0<em>apostolorum traditio\u00a0<\/em>or<em>\u00a0apostolica traditio<\/em>\u00a0. . .<\/p>\n<p>Tertullian\u2019s attitude does not differ from Irenaeus\u2019s in any important respect . . . In its primary sense, however, the apostolic, evangelical or Catholic tradition [C.\u00a0<em>Marc<\/em>. 4, 5; 5, 19;\u00a0<em>de monog<\/em>. 2] stood for the faith delivered by the apostles, and he never contrasted tradition so understood with Scripture . . .<\/p>\n<p>But Tertullian did not confine the apostolic tradition to the New Testament; even if Scripture were to be set on one side, it would still be found in the doctrine publicly proclaimed by the churches. Like Irenaeus, he found [E.g.,\u00a0<em>de praescr<\/em>. 21; 32; c.\u00a0<em>Marc<\/em>. 4, 5] the surest test of the authenticity of this doctrine in the fact that the churches had been founded by, and were continuously linked with, the apostles; and as a further guarantee he added [<em>De praescr<\/em>.\u00a028] their otherwise inexplicable unanimity . . .<\/p>\n<p>This unwritten tradition he considered to be virtually identical with the \u2018rule of faith\u2019 (<em>regula fidei<\/em>), which he preferred to Scripture as a standard when disputing with Gnostics . . . where controversy with heretics breaks out, the right interpretation can be found only where the true Christian faith and discipline have been maintained, i.e., in the Church [<em>De praescr<\/em>. 19] . . .<\/p>\n<p>He was also satisfied, and made the point even more forcibly than Irenaeus, that the indispensable key to Scripture belonged exclusively to the Church, which in the\u00a0<em>regula<\/em>\u00a0had preserved the apostles\u2019 testimony in its original shape. . . . the one divine revelation was contained in its fulness both in the Bible and in the Church\u2019s continuous public witness.\u00a0(<em>Early Christian Doctrines<\/em>, HarperSanFrancisco, revised 1978 edition, 36, 39-41)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>The Church<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[T]he churches, although they are so many and so great, comprise but the one primitive church . . . (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 20)<\/p>\n<p>[I]t is incredible that these could have been such as to bring in some other rule of faith, differing from and contrary to that which they were proclaiming through the\u00a0Catholic\u00a0churches, \u2014 as if they spoke of one God in the\u00a0Church, (and) another at home, and described one substance of\u00a0Christ, publicly, (and) another secretly, and announced one hope of the resurrection before all\u00a0men, (and) another before the few; although they themselves, in their epistles, besought men that they would all speak one and the same thing, and that there should be no divisions and dissensions in the church, seeing that they, whether\u00a0Paul\u00a0or others, preached the same things. Moreover, they remembered (the words):\u00a0<q>Let your communication be yea, yea; nay, nay; for whatsoever is more than this comes of\u00a0evil;<\/q>\u00a0[<span id=\"note032138\" class=\"stiki\">Matthew 5:37]<\/span>\u00a0so that they were not to handle the gospel in a diversity of treatment. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 26)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>Sacred Tradition<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>It remains, then, that we demonstrate whether this doctrine of ours, of which we have now given the rule, has its origin in the tradition of the\u00a0apostles, and whether all other\u00a0<em>doctrines<\/em>\u00a0do not\u00a0<em>ipso facto<\/em>\u00a0proceed from falsehood. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 21)<\/p>\n<p>When, however, that which is deposited among many is found to be one and the same, it is not the result of\u00a0error, but of tradition. Can any one, then, be reckless enough to say that they were in\u00a0error who handed on the tradition? (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 28)<\/p>\n<p>Such are the summary arguments which we use, when we take up arms against\u00a0heretics\u00a0for the\u00a0faith\u00a0of the gospel, maintaining both that order of periods, which rules that a late date is the mark of forgers, and that authority of churches which lends support to the tradition of the\u00a0apostles; because\u00a0truth\u00a0must needs precede the\u00a0forgery, and proceed straight from those by whom it has been handed on. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/03124.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Against Marcion<\/em>, Book IV<\/a>, ch. 5)<\/p>\n<p>We have it on the\u00a0true\u00a0tradition of the\u00a0Church, that this epistle was sent to the Ephesians, not to the Laodiceans. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/03125.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Against Marcion<\/em>, Book V<\/a>, ch. 17)<\/p>\n<p>For if, even at that time, the tradition of the gospel had spread everywhere, how much more now! Now, if it is our gospel which has spread everywhere, rather than any\u00a0heretical\u00a0gospel, much less\u00a0Marcion\u2019s, which only dates from the reign of\u00a0Antoninus, then ours will be the gospel of the\u00a0apostles. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/03125.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Against Marcion<\/em>, Book V<\/a>, ch. 19)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>Apostolic Succession<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[E]ven if a discussion from the Scriptures\u00a0should not turn out in such a way as to place both sides on a par, (yet) the natural order of things would require that this point should be first proposed, which is now the only one which we must discuss:\u00a0<q>With whom lies that very\u00a0faith\u00a0to which the\u00a0Scriptures\u00a0belong. From what and through whom, and when, and to whom, has been handed down that rule, by which men become\u00a0Christians?<\/q>\u00a0For wherever it shall be manifest that the\u00a0true\u00a0Christian\u00a0rule and\u00a0faith\u00a0shall be,\u00a0<em>there<\/em>\u00a0will likewise be the\u00a0true\u00a0Scriptures and expositions thereof, and all the\u00a0Christian traditions. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 19)<\/p>\n<p>They [the Apostles] then in like manner founded churches in every city, from which all the other churches, one after another, derived the tradition of the faith, and the seeds of doctrine, and are every day deriving them, that they may become churches. Indeed, it is on this account only that they will be able to deem themselves apostolic, as being the offspring of\u00a0apostolic churches. . . . Therefore the\u00a0churches, although they are so many and so great, comprise but the one primitive church, (founded) by the\u00a0apostles, from which they all (spring). In this way all are primitive, and all are apostolic, while they are all\u00a0proved\u00a0to be one, in (unbroken) unity, by their peaceful communion, and title of brotherhood, and bond of hospitality \u2014 privileges which no other rule directs than the one tradition of the selfsame\u00a0mystery. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 20)<\/p>\n<p>From this, therefore, do we draw up our rule. Since the\u00a0Lord Jesus Christ\u00a0sent the\u00a0apostles\u00a0to preach, (our rule is) that no others ought to be received as preachers than those whom Christ appointed; for\u00a0<q>no man\u00a0knows\u00a0the Father save the\u00a0Son, and he to whomever the Son will reveal Him.<\/q>\u00a0<span id=\"note032062\" class=\"stiki\">Matthew\u00a011:27<\/span>\u00a0Nor does the Son seem to have revealed Him to any other than the\u00a0apostles, whom He sent forth to preach \u2014 that, of course, which He revealed to them. Now, what that was which they preached \u2014 in other words, what it was which Christ revealed to them \u2014 can, as I must here likewise prescribe, properly be\u00a0proved\u00a0in no other way than by those very churches which the\u00a0apostles\u00a0founded in person, by declaring the gospel to them directly themselves, both\u00a0<em>viv\u00e2 voce<\/em>, as the phrase is, and subsequently by their epistles. If, then, these things are so, it is in the same degree manifest that all doctrine which agrees with the\u00a0apostolic churches\u2014 those moulds and original sources of the\u00a0faith\u00a0must be reckoned for\u00a0truth, as undoubtedly containing that which the (said) churches received from the\u00a0apostles, the\u00a0apostles\u00a0from Christ, Christ from\u00a0God. Whereas all doctrine must be prejudged as false which savours of contrariety to the\u00a0truth\u00a0of the churches and\u00a0apostles\u00a0of Christ and God. It remains, then, that we demonstrate whether this doctrine of ours, of which we have now given the rule, has its origin in the tradition of the\u00a0apostles, and whether all other\u00a0<em>doctrines<\/em>\u00a0do not\u00a0<em>ipso facto<\/em>\u00a0proceed from\u00a0falsehood. We hold communion with the\u00a0apostolic churches\u00a0because our doctrine is in no respect different\u00a0<em>from theirs<\/em>. This is\u00a0<em>our<\/em>\u00a0witness\u00a0of\u00a0truth. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 21)<\/p>\n<p>[N]or can they presume to claim to be a church themselves who positively have no means of proving when, and with what swaddling-clothes this body was established. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 22)<\/p>\n<p>But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the\u00a0apostolic\u00a0age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the\u00a0apostles, because they\u00a0existed\u00a0in the time of the\u00a0apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their\u00a0bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first\u00a0bishop\u00a0of theirs ]\u00a0bishop\u00a0shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the\u00a0apostles\u00a0or of apostolic men, \u2014 a\u00a0man, moreover, who continued steadfast with the\u00a0apostles. For this is the manner in which the\u00a0apostolic churches\u00a0transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that\u00a0Polycarp\u00a0was placed therein by John; as also the\u00a0church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter. In exactly the same way the other churches likewise exhibit (their several worthies), whom, as having been appointed to their episcopal places by\u00a0apostles, they regard as transmitters of the apostolic seed. Let the\u00a0heretics\u00a0contrive something of the same kind. For after their\u00a0blasphemy, what is there that is unlawful for them (to attempt)? But should they even effect the contrivance, they will not advance a step. For their very doctrine, after comparison with that of the\u00a0apostles, will declare, by its own diversity and contrariety, that it had for its author neither an apostle nor an apostolic man; because, as the\u00a0apostles\u00a0would never have taught things which were self-contradictory, so the apostolic men would not have inculcated teaching different from the\u00a0apostles, unless they who received their instruction from the\u00a0apostles\u00a0went and preached in a contrary manner. To this test, therefore will they be submitted for\u00a0proof\u00a0by those churches, who, although they derive not their founder from\u00a0apostles\u00a0or apostolic men (as being of much later date, for they are in fact being founded daily), yet, since they agree in the same\u00a0faith, they are accounted as not less apostolic because they are akin in doctrine. Then let all the\u00a0heresies, when challenged to these two tests by our apostolic church, offer their\u00a0proof\u00a0of how they deem themselves to be apostolic. But in\u00a0truth\u00a0they neither are so, nor are they able to prove themselves to be what they are not. Nor are they admitted to peaceful relations and communion by such churches as are in any way connected with\u00a0apostles, inasmuch as they are in no sense themselves apostolic because of their diversity as to the\u00a0mysteries\u00a0of the\u00a0faith. (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 32)<\/p>\n<p>Since this is the case, in order that the\u00a0truth\u00a0may be adjudged to belong to us,\u00a0<q>as many as walk according to the rule,<\/q>\u00a0which the church has handed down from the\u00a0apostles, the\u00a0apostles\u00a0from Christ,\u00a0<em>and<\/em>\u00a0Christ from\u00a0God, the reason of our position is clear, when it determines that\u00a0heretics\u00a0ought not to be allowed to challenge an appeal to the\u00a0Scriptures, since we, without the\u00a0Scriptures, prove that they have nothing to do with the\u00a0Scriptures. . . . But on what ground are\u00a0heretics\u00a0strangers and enemies to the\u00a0apostles, if it be not from the difference of their teaching, which each individual of his own mere will has either advanced or received in opposition to the\u00a0apostles? (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 37)<\/p>\n<p>No\u00a0doubt, after the time of the\u00a0apostles, the\u00a0truth\u00a0respecting the belief of God suffered corruption, but it is equally certain that during the life of the\u00a0apostles\u00a0their teaching on this great article did not suffer at all; so that no other teaching will have the\u00a0right\u00a0of being received as apostolic than that which is at the present day proclaimed in the churches of apostolic foundation. You will, however, find no church of apostolic origin but such as reposes its\u00a0Christian\u00a0faith in the Creator. But if the churches shall prove to have been corrupt from the beginning, where shall the pure ones be found? Will it be among the adversaries of the Creator? Show us, then, one of your churches, tracing its descent from an\u00a0apostle, and you will have gained the day.\u00a0(<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/03121.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Against Marcion<\/em>, Book I<\/a>, ch. 21)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>Petrine Primacy \/ Papacy<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Was anything withheld from the\u00a0knowledge\u00a0of Peter, who is called\u00a0<q>the rock on which the church should be built,<\/q>\u00a0who also obtained\u00a0<q>the keys of the\u00a0kingdom of heaven,<\/q>\u00a0with the power of\u00a0<q>loosing and binding in heaven and on earth?<\/q>\u00a0(<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 22)<\/p>\n<p>Afterwards, as he himself [St. Paul] narrates, he\u00a0<q>went up to Jerusalem for the purpose of seeing Peter,<\/q>\u00a0[<span id=\"note032096\" class=\"stiki\">Galatians 1:18]<\/span>\u00a0because of his office, no\u00a0doubt,\u00a0 . . . (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 23)<\/p>\n<p>[T]hey at first were believers\u00a0in the doctrine of the\u00a0Catholic\u00a0Church, in the\u00a0church of Rome\u00a0under the\u00a0episcopate\u00a0of the blessed\u00a0Eleutherus, . . . (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/0311.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Prescription against Heretics<\/em><\/a>, ch. 30)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>*****<\/p>\n<p>Lucas then moves onto Origen, where he commits the same misguided error again and again:<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Like the others, Origen reinforced the fact of the sufficiency of Scripture. He declared that \u201cwhat we have taken from the authority of Scripture must be sufficient to refute the arguments of heretics\u201d [<em>De Principiis, Livro II<\/em>, 5:3]. When he entered into theological debates, he made a point of saying that the discussion at hand should be resolved on the basis of the Bible. <\/span><\/p>\n<p>This is pure material sufficiency. Most Catholics agree, so it is a non-issue.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">He said:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cThirdly, the apostles manifested to us the Holy Spirit, associated in honor and dignity with the Father and the Son. In this, however, it is no longer clearly distinguished whether the Holy Spirit is begotten or unbegotten, or whether he must also be considered the Son of God or not. It is these things that must be investigated to the best of our ability through a careful search from the Holy Scriptures.\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Cap.4]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cIt is important, therefore, that he use these things as elements and foundations, according to the commandment that says: \u2018Illuminate yourselves by the light of science\u2019, anyone who wishes to construct a series and a body of reasons for all these things, to investigate by means of manifest and necessary affirmations what there is of truth in each of them, and to build up a body of examples and affirmations from what I have found in the Holy Scriptures\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Cap.10]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cNow all this, as we have underlined, was done by the Holy Spirit that, seeing that those events which lie on the surface can be neither true nor useful, we may be guided to the investigation of that truth which is most deeply hidden, and to the affirmation of a meaning worthy of God in those Scriptures which we believe to have been inspired by Him.\u201d [<em>De Principii<\/em>, 4:15]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, we<em> should<\/em> check all doctrines by Scripture. I did that <em>today<\/em>, in my previous reply to Lucas, showing that<em> sola Scriptura<\/em> can\u2019t be found in Holy Scripture. Nothing proving <em>sola Scriptura<\/em> here . . .<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">He also made a point of analyzing in the Bible the veracity of each doctrine or theory elaborated. When something was not confirmed by the authority of Holy Scripture, he rejected it, to make way for what was biblical: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cI do not observe that this is greatly confirmed by the authority of Holy Scripture; whereas, in relation to the other two, a considerable number of passages are found in the Holy Scriptures which seem capable of being applied to them\u201d [<em>De Principii<\/em>, 4] <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The proof of the doctrines which he asserted he took not from tradition, but from Scripture: \u201cTo deal with so many and such things, it is not enough to entrust the sum of this subject to human senses and common intelligence, speaking, so to speak, visibly about invisible things. We must also take, for the demonstration of the things of which we speak, the testimonies of the Divine Scriptures\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Livro IV, Cap.1] <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cExhorted thus briefly by the very logic and coherence of the subject, though we have extended ourselves a little, what we have said is sufficient to show that there are some things whose significance cannot be explained by any discourse of human language, but which are declared by an intelligence, simpler than the properties of any words. The understanding of the divine letters must also adhere to this rule, and what is said must be considered not for the baseness of the word, but for the divinity of the Holy Spirit who inspired the one who wrote them.\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Livro IV, Cap.27]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Exactly right. Catholics totally agree! Go to the Bible to back up all of your doctrines. If we agree with this, then obviously it\u2019s not an argument against us. It\u2019s not even <em>on-topic<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The reverse was also true. If the reason a doctrine was accepted was because of its conformity to Holy Scripture \u2013 not tradition \u2013 the reason why some erred was not because they ignored tradition, but because they ignored the Scriptures or did not read them correctly: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cHaving made this brief comment on the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures by the Holy Spirit, it now seems necessary to explain why some, ignoring the way by which the understanding of the divine letters is reached, not reading them correctly, have fallen into so many errors\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Livro IV, Cap.8]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Scripture as the basis of all doctrines becomes even clearer when we see Origen saying that both the simplest and the most advanced would have to be built up by Scripture, not to mention tradition either for one or the other: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cHe must do this, first, that the simplest may be edified by the very body of Scripture, as it were. This is what we call common and historical understanding. If, however, they already begin to advance a little, so that they can understand something more deeply, let them also be edified by the very soul of the Scriptures\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Livro IV, Cap.11] <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">His entire search for true doctrine was grounded in Scripture: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cAll this, as we have said, the Holy Spirit sought so that, insofar as what is on the surface could not be true or useful, we would speedily be called to seek a higher truth, and search the Scriptures, which we believe to be inspired by God, a sense worthy of God\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Livro IV, Cap.15]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>If one doesn\u2019t study and understand the Bible, they leave themselves open to serious errors. The Catholic says \u201camen!\u201d This all has to do with material sufficiency.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The same Scripture, which the Papists hold to be insufficient for salvation, <\/span><\/p>\n<p>But we don\u2019t <em>do<\/em> that . . .<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Origen said was given just for our salvation! <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cJust as man is said to be made up of body, soul and spirit, so is Holy Scripture, which by divine liberality was given for the salvation of men.\u201d [<em>De Principiis<\/em>, Livro IV, Cap.11]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Of course<\/strong><\/em> it was. DUH!<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">He also advocated free examination. Instead of saying that the meaning of the passages could only be examined and discovered by the Roman magisterium, he asserted that any intelligent person who studied the Scriptures could discover the meaning for himself: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cPeople of intelligence who wish to study Scripture can also discover its meaning for themselves.\u201d [<em>Contra Celso<\/em>, Livro VII, 11] <\/span><\/p>\n<p>The Catholic Church (Council of Trent) <em>required<\/em> one interpretation only for all of <strong><em>seven verses in the Bible<\/em><\/strong>. That\u2019s it! The rest can be interpreted as one wishes. Nor was it true historically that the Catholic Church tried to suppress the Bible, as the common myth would have it:<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/were-vernacular-bibles-unknown-before-luther.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Were Vernacular Bibles Unknown Before Luther?<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/were-vernacular-bibles-unknown-before-luther.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">(Luther\u2019s Dubious Claims About the Supposed Utter Obscurity of the Bible Before His Translation)<\/a>\u00a0[6-15-11]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2020\/06\/dialogue-obscure-bible-before-luthers-translation.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Dialogue: \u201cObscure\u201d Bible Before Luther\u2019s Translation?<\/a>\u00a0[7-24-14]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/09\/catholic-church-historic-enemy-of-the-bible.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Catholic Church: Historic \u201cEnemy\u201d of the Bible?<\/a>\u00a0[9-11-15]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/05\/did-pope-innocent-iii-forbid-the-bible-in-1199.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Did Pope Innocent III Forbid the Bible in 1199? (+ Does the Bible Itself Teach That it Should be Read Without Need of Any Authoritative Interpretation?)<\/a>\u00a0[5-11-21]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/05\/did-medieval-catholicism-forbid-all-vernacular-bibles.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Did Medieval Catholicism Forbid All Vernacular Bibles?<\/a>\u00a0[5-11-21]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/05\/council-of-trent-anti-bible-or-anti-bad-bible-translations.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Council of Trent: Anti-Bible or Anti-Bad Bible Translations?<\/a>\u00a0[5-12-21]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/05\/unigenitus-1713-vs-personal-bible-study.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u201cUnigenitus\u201d (1713) vs. Personal Bible Study? (+ Other Supposed \u201cAnti-Bible\u201d Catholic Proclamations &amp; Analogies to Calvinist \u201cDogmatism\u201d at the Synod of Dort)<\/a>\u00a0[5-14-21]<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes it wished to suppress <em>unauthorized<\/em> or <em>bad<\/em> translations; but of course Protestants have always done that, too, so it\u2019s not an issue.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Even the \u201cdeeper truths\u201d could be discovered by one who investigated the meaning of Scripture on his own, citing three biblical texts in his defense: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cThe deepest truths are discovered by those who know how to ascend from simple faith and investigate the underlying meaning of the divine Scriptures, according to the admonitions of Jesus, who said, \u2018Search the Scriptures,\u2019 and the desire of Paul, who taught that \u2018we must know how to respond to every man\u2019, yes, and also of those who said \u2018always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the faith that is in you\u2019\u201d [<em>Contra Celso<\/em> III, 33]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Material sufficiency again . . .<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Y2IQFc\" lang=\"en\" style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Interestingly, Origen never told Celsus that if he wanted to discover the deeper meanings of biblical texts he would have to turn to an infallible magisterium in Rome, or consult a pope who would interpret Scripture infallibly. Rather, what he reaffirms is that anyone can study the Bible and discover for himself the meaning of the passages. It was exactly the same principle restored by the Reformers, being explicitly preached at that time.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>If only one aspect of his teaching is presented, one would get such an impression. But I believe that all the relevant material one can find about a specific Church father should be set forth, so that we get the<em> whole truth<\/em>, not half-truths and carefully selected portions meant to convey an impression in one direction only. And so I now present Origen\u2019s writings that are actually relevant to this debate and on-topic:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>And therefore, to those who believe that the sacred books are not the compositions of men, but that they were composed by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, agreeably to the will of the Father of all things through Jesus Christ, and that they have come down to us,\u00a0we must point out the ways (of interpreting them) which appear (correct) to us, who cling to the standard of the heavenly Church of Jesus Christ according to the succession of the apostles. (<em>On First Principles<\/em>,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/04124.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book IV, Section 9<\/a>; English translation based on extant Greek of Origen)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref16\" name=\"_ftn16\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p>As in all such cases, one must\u00a0<em>also<\/em>\u00a0determine what the writer believes about the\u00a0<em>Church<\/em>\u00a0and\u00a0<em>Christian tradition<\/em>, because the rule of faith has to do with\u00a0<em>the\u00a0<strong>relationship<\/strong>\u00a0of those two entities with Scripture<\/em>. We already see that Origen, in the second excerpt above, incorporates the Church and apostolic succession into the mix (\u201cwho cling to the standard of the heavenly Church of Jesus Christ according to the succession of the apostles\u201d), so that he is expressing the Catholic \u201cthree-legged stool\u201d view.<\/p>\n<p>The word \u201cstandard\u201d is particularly noteworthy and revealing. Church and tradition\/ apostolic succession are involved in the rule of faith alongside Holy Scripture. All we need do now is supplement the above with other related utterances from Origen, and reputable Protestant scholarly opinion. Origen also wrote the following:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Since many, however, of those who profess to believe in Christ differ from each other, not only in small and trifling matters, but also on subjects of the highest importance, as, e.g., regarding God, or the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit; and not only regarding these, but also regarding others which are created existences, viz., the powers and the holy virtues; it seems on that account necessary first of all to fix a definite limit and to lay down an\u00a0unmistakable rule\u00a0regarding each one of these, and then to pass to the investigation of other points. For as we ceased to seek for truth (notwithstanding the professions of many among Greeks and Barbarians to make it known) among all who claimed it for erroneous opinions, after we had come to believe that Christ was the Son of God, and were persuaded that we must learn it from Himself; so, seeing\u00a0there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the apostles, and remaining in the Churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolical tradition.\u00a0(<em>De Principiis<\/em>,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/04120.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">preface, complete section 2<\/a>; ANF, Vol. IV)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Origen, in this Preface, reiterates over and over the same non-scriptural elements of the rule of faith: \u201cthe teaching of the apostles\u201d (4), \u201cmost clearly taught throughout the Churches\u201d (4), \u201cthe apostolic teaching\u201d (5),\u00a0\u201cThis also is clearly defined in the teaching of the Church\u201d (5), \u201cthe teaching of the Church\u201d (again in 5, and in 6, 7, 10), \u201cthe Church\u2019s teaching\u201d (7), \u201cRespecting which there is one opinion throughout the whole Church\u201d (8). He continues on in the same manner throughout this work:<\/p>\n<p>\u201che may judge these to be\u00a0heretical\u00a0and opposed to the\u00a0faith\u00a0of the\u00a0Church\u201d (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/04121.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bk. I, ch. 7, part 1<\/a>); \u201cWe have now to ascertain what those matters are which it is proper to treat in the following pages according to our dogmatic belief, i.e., in agreement with the creed of the Church\u201d (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/04121.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bk. I, ch. 7, part 1<\/a>). \u201cthe punishments of sinners, according to the threatenings of holy Scripture and the contents of the Church\u2019s teaching\u201d; \u201csome take offense at the creed of the\u00a0Church\u201d (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/04122.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bk. II, ch. 10, part 1<\/a>), \u201cThose, however, who receive the representations of Scripture according to the understanding of the\u00a0apostles, . . . (<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/04122.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bk. II, ch. 11, part 3<\/a>).<\/p>\n<p>Therefore, it is apparent that Origen held to the Catholic rule of faith and apostolic succession, and that he denied\u00a0<em>sola Scriptura<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Protestant historian J. N. D. Kelly describes Origen\u2019s view of the relationship of the Bible and tradition:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Early third-century writers, like Clement of Alexandria and Origen, continued to use language about it [tradition, in context] closely akin to that of Irenaeus and Tertullian, and spoke of \u2018the ecclesiastical canon\u2019 or \u2018the canon of faith\u2019 . . . in addition to the Church\u2019s public tradition, they believed they had access to a secret tradition of doctrine . . . for Origen it seems to have consisted of an esoteric theology based on the Bible . . . According to Origen, the rule of faith, or canon, was the body of beliefs currently accepted by ordinary Christians; or again it could stand for the whole content of the faith. In his usage it was equivalent to what he called \u2018the ecclesiastical preaching\u2019 . . . and he meant by it the Christian faith as taught in the Church of his day and handed down from the apostles. Though its contents coincided with those of the Bible, it was formally independent of the Bible, and also included the principles of Biblical interpretation. (<em>Early Christian Doctrines<\/em>, San Francisco: Harper &amp; Row, fifth revised edition, 1978, 43)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Kelly\u2019s last sentence describes almost exactly the Catholic distinction between material and formal sufficiency of Scripture. We agree with Protestants that Scripture is materially sufficient, but not formally sufficient as a rule of faith, independently of Church and Tradition.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800080;\"><strong>Related Reading<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p>For\u00a0<em>much<\/em>\u00a0more on\u00a0<em>sola Scriptura<\/em>: see my\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/bible-church-tradition-canon-index.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Bible, Tradition, Canon, &amp; \u201cSola Scriptura\u201d<\/a>\u00a0web page.<\/p>\n<p>For documentation of many more Church fathers who rejected\u00a0<em>sola Scriptura<\/em>, see the \u201cBible\u201d section of my\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2007\/03\/fathers-of-the-church-index-page.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Fathers of the Church<\/a>\u00a0web page.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2009\/06\/dave-armstrongs-catholic-apologetics-bookstore-49-books-paperback-e-pub-mobi-nook-book-amazon-kindle-itunes-pdf-rock-bottom-regular-prices-67-savings-for-e-books-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fifty books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2014\/01\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/02\/the-biblical-basis-of-apologetics-defense-of-christianity.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0<em>monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/us\/webapps\/mpp\/sem\/account-selection-signup\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0<strong><em>Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Lucas Banzoli, Facebook photo as of 5-3-22,<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/lucasbanzoli1\/photos\/a.1629971703959005\/2005162629773242\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">dated 15 January 2018<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><em>Summary<\/em>: Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli attempts to show that Origen &amp; Tertullian were <em>sola Scripturists<\/em>. They were <em>not<\/em>, as I abundantly prove with citations.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ\u2019s [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[239],"tags":[598,779,514,1879,1878,616,1119,52,33,1029,2007,1877,16059,16161,15456,15453,6762,32,536,35,47,16218,15552,16215],"class_list":["post-64668","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-fathers-of-the-church","tag-apostolic-succession","tag-apostolic-tradition","tag-bible-only","tag-biblical-prooftexts","tag-biblical-theology","tag-canon-of-scripture","tag-catholic-church","tag-catholic-tradition","tag-christian-authority","tag-church-authority","tag-church-fathers-sola-scriptura","tag-infallible-authority","tag-is-sola-scriptura-biblical","tag-lucas-banzoli","tag-origen-sola-scriptura","tag-origen-the-rule-of-faith","tag-patristic-rule-of-faith","tag-rule-of-faith","tag-sacred-scripture","tag-scripture-alone","tag-sola-scriptura","tag-sola-scripturists","tag-tertullian-sola-scriptura","tag-tertullian-the-rule-of-faith"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Banzoli Sez Origen &amp; Tertullian are Sola Scripturists Banzoli Sez Origen &amp; Tertullian are Sola Scripturists<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli attempts to show that Origen &amp; Tertullian were sola Scripturists. They were not, as I abundantly prove with citations.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Banzoli Sez Origen &amp; Tertullian are Sola Scripturists Banzoli Sez Origen &amp; Tertullian are Sola Scripturists\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli attempts to show that Origen &amp; Tertullian were sola Scripturists. They were not, as I abundantly prove with citations.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2022-05-31T13:32:14+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-02-21T19:25:17+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2022\/05\/BanzoliLucas-300x300.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"27 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html\",\"name\":\"Banzoli Sez Origen & Tertullian are Sola Scripturists Banzoli Sez Origen & Tertullian are Sola Scripturists\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2022-05-31T13:32:14+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-02-21T19:25:17+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli attempts to show that Origen & Tertullian were sola Scripturists. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Banzoli Sez Origen & Tertullian are Sola Scripturists Banzoli Sez Origen & Tertullian are Sola Scripturists","description":"Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli attempts to show that Origen & Tertullian were sola Scripturists. 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They were not, as I abundantly prove with citations.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/05\/banzoli-sez-origen-tertullian-are-sola-scripturists.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Banzoli Sez Origen &#038; Tertullian are Sola Scripturists"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/","name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","description":"Catholic biblical apologetics","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e","name":"Dave Armstrong","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dave Armstrong"},"description":"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/64668","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=64668"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/64668\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=64668"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=64668"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=64668"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}