{"id":6514,"date":"2016-03-15T18:51:57","date_gmt":"2016-03-15T22:51:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=6514"},"modified":"2017-03-24T14:19:49","modified_gmt":"2017-03-24T18:19:49","slug":"jesus-interactions-w-mary-in-relation-to-marian-veneration","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/03\/jesus-interactions-w-mary-in-relation-to-marian-veneration.html","title":{"rendered":"Jesus’ Interactions with Mary in Relation to Marian Veneration"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>
\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\"Jesus27\"<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Istanbul: Chora Church Museum (Kariye Cami). Nartex. A mosaic showing the Virgin Mary beside Jesus. Photograph by Giovanni Dall\u2019Orto, May 29, 2006. Released into public domain by the photographer<\/span> [Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

\n

(10-29-08)<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

I was asked on the CHNI board:<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

The passage where Jesus says \u201cwho are my mothers and brothers\u201d in answer to someone saying his mother was there. The pastor wonders if we are supposed to show such veneration to Christ\u2019s mother, why didn\u2019t He do it Himself in that instance?<\/span>
\n
\n<\/span>Here are the passages:<\/span><\/p>\n

Matthew 12:46-50<\/b> (RSV) While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. But he replied to the man who told him, \u201cWho is my mother, and who are my brothers?\u201d And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, \u201cHere are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother.\u201d [note: v. 47 is a disputed text, and is actually skipped in the RSV and other recent translations]\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Mark 3:31-35<\/b> And his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside they sent to him and called him. And a crowd was sitting about him; and they said to him, \u201cYour mother and your brothers are outside, asking for you.\u201d And he replied, \u201cWho are my mother and my brothers?\u201d And looking around on those who sat about him, he said, \u201cHere are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Luke 8:19-21<\/b> Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him for the crowd. And he was told, \u201cYour mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you.\u201d But he said to them, \u201cMy mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n


\n<\/i>The Catholic Encyclopedia<\/i><\/span> (\u201cThe Blessed Virgin Mary\u201d<\/a>) comments on this:<\/span><\/p>\n

At first sight, it seems that Jesus Himself depreciated the dignity of His Blessed Mother. When He was told: \u201cBehold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee\u201d, He answered: \u201cWho is my mother, and who are my brethren? And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said: Behold my mother and my brethren. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and my sister, and my mother\u201d (Matthew 12:47-50; cf. Mark 3:31-35; Luke 8:19-21). On another occasion, \u201ca certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it\u201d (Luke 11:27-28).<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In reality, Jesus in both these passages places the bond that unites the soul with God above the natural bond of parentage which unites the Mother of God with her Divine Son. The latter dignity is not belittled; as men naturally appreciate it more easily, it is employed by Our Lord as a means to make known the real value of holiness. Jesus, therefore, really, praises His mother in a most emphatic way; for she excelled the rest of men in holiness not less than in dignity. Most probably, Mary was found also among the holy women who ministered to Jesus and His apostles during their ministry in Galilee (cf. Luke 8:2-3); the Evangelists do not mention any other public appearance of Mary during the time of Jesus\u2019s journeys through Galilee or Judea. But we must remember that when the sun appears, even the brightest stars become invisible.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Earlier in the article, the author dealt with the similar question of the miracle of the wedding at Cana (used in Protestant \u201canti-Marian\u201d polemics in the same skeptical way):<\/span><\/p>\n

The evangelists connect Mary\u2019s name with three different events in Our Lord\u2019s public life: with the miracle in Cana, with His preaching, and with His passion. The first of these incidents is related in John 2:1-10. <\/span><\/p>\n

There was a marriage feast in Cana of Galilee. . .and the mother of Jesus was there. And Jesus also was invited, and his disciples, to the marriage. And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine. And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

One naturally supposes that one of the contracting parties was related to Mary, and that Jesus had been invited on account of his mother\u2019s relationship. The couple must have been rather poor, since the wine was actually failing. Mary wishes to save her friends from the shame of not being able to provide properly for the guests, and has recourse to her Divine Son. She merely states their need, without adding any further petition. In addressing women, Jesus uniformly employs the word \u201cwoman\u201d (Matthew 15:28; Luke 13:12; John 4:21; 8:10; 19:26; 20:15), an expression used by classical writers as a respectful and honourable address. The above cited passages show that in the language of Jesus the address \u201cwoman\u201d has a most respectful meaning. The clause \u201cwhat is that to me and to thee\u201d renders the Greek ti emoi kai soi<\/i>, which in its turn corresponds to the Hebrew phrase mah li walakh<\/i>. This latter occurs in Judges 11:12; 2 Samuel 16:10; 19:23; 1 Kings 17:18; 2 Kings 3:13; 9:18; 2 Chronicles 35:21.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The New Testament shows equivalent expressions in Matthew 8:29; Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34; 8:28; Matthew 27:19. <\/span><\/span>The meaning of the phrase varies according to the character of the speakers, ranging from a most pronounced opposition to a courteous compliance. Such a variable meaning makes it hard for the translator to find an equally variable equivalent. \u201cWhat have I to do with thee\u201d, \u201cthis is neither your nor my business\u201d, \u201cwhy art thou troublesome to me\u201d, \u201callow me to attend to this\u201d, are some of the renderings suggested. In general, the words seem to refer to well or ill-meant importunity which they endeavour to remove. The last part of <\/span>Our Lord\u2019s answe<\/span>r presents less difficulty to the interpreter: \u201cmy hour is not yet come\u201d, cannot refer to the precise moment at which the need of wine will require the miraculous intervention of Jesus; for in the language of St. John \u201cmy hour\u201d or \u201cthe hour\u201d denotes the time preordained for some important event (John 4:21-23; 5:25-28; 7:30; 8:29; 12:23; 13:1; 16:21; 17:1).<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Hence the meaning of Our Lord\u2019s answer is: \u201cWhy are you troubling me by asking me for such an intervention? The divinely appointed time for such a manifestation has not yet come\u201d; or, \u201cwhy are you worrying? has not the time of manifesting my power come?\u201d The former of these meanings implies that on account of the intercession of Mary Jesus anticipated the time set for the manifestation of His miraculous power; the second meaning is obtained by understanding the last part of Our Lord\u2019s words as a question, as was done by St. Gregory of Nyssa, and by the Arabic version of Tatian\u2019s \u201cDiatessaron\u201d (Rome, 1888). Mary understood her Son\u2019s words in their proper sense; she merely warned the waiters, \u201cWhatsoever he shall say to you, do ye\u201d (John 2:5). There can be no question of explaining Jesus\u2019 answer in the sense of a refusal.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u00a0 Istanbul: Chora Church Museum (Kariye Cami). Nartex. A mosaic showing the Virgin Mary beside Jesus. Photograph by Giovanni Dall\u2019Orto, May 29, 2006. Released into public domain by the photographer [Wikimedia Commons] * * * (10-29-08) * * * I was asked on the CHNI board: The passage where Jesus says \u201cwho are my mothers […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":6517,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[45],"tags":[2357,201,2389,2386,190,2388,550,503,2356,2384,2385,504,516],"class_list":["post-6514","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blessed-virgin-mary","tag-blessed-virgin-mary","tag-communion-of-saints","tag-dulia","tag-honoring-mary","tag-idolatry","tag-latria","tag-marian-devotion","tag-marian-doctrine","tag-mariology","tag-maryolatry","tag-veneration-of-mary","tag-virgin-mary","tag-worship"],"yoast_head":"\nJesus' Interactions with Mary in Relation to Marian Veneration<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Commentary on Jesus' supposed lack 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Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6514","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6514"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6514\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6517"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6514"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6514"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6514"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}