{"id":65356,"date":"2022-07-28T16:32:44","date_gmt":"2022-07-28T20:32:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=65356"},"modified":"2026-06-06T00:46:58","modified_gmt":"2026-06-06T04:46:58","slug":"jason-engwer-trent-horn-my-50-nt-petrine-proofs","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/07\/jason-engwer-trent-horn-my-50-nt-petrine-proofs.html","title":{"rendered":"Jason Engwer, Trent Horn, & My 50 NT Petrine Proofs"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Catholic apologist Trent Horn, on his popular YouTube channel, The Counsel of Trent<\/em><\/a>, did a show entitled, \u201cThe \u2018Pauline parody argument\u2019 against the papacy (with Suan Sonna)\u201d<\/a> [7-27-22] This was directed towards a 2012 article from Protestant anti-Catholic apologist Jason Engwer, entitled, \u201c51 Biblical Proofs Of A Pauline Papacy And Ephesian Primacy.\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n

What viewers wouldn\u2019t know, however, is that Jason\u2019s original parody was directed towards my 1994 piece, 50 New Testament Proofs for Peter\u2019s Primacy & the Papacy<\/a> (later published in 2003 on pages 233-238 of my first book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism<\/a><\/em>).<\/p>\n

In his usual charity and courtesy, Jason forgot to mention that I was the writer \u2014 though I am mentioned in the comments \u2014 or link to my article. I\u2019ve long been banned from that site. What one would also never find out there, is that I answered Jason\u2019s original articles along these lines twice (now almost 19 and 20 years ago):<\/p>\n

Reply to Critique of \u201c50 NT Proofs for the Papacy\u201d<\/a> [3-14-02]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Refutation of a Satirical \u201cPauline Papacy\u201d Argument<\/a> [9-30-03]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
If anyone is interested in reading the author that Jason was parodying (yours truly), defending his arguments twice, and critiquing Jason back, the above two articles will provide that information.<\/span> He\u2019s playing the same \u201cwe mustn\u2019t ever mention that scoundrel Dave!\u201d game in his reply to this video, stating, \u201cI was paralleling a list at a Catholic web site . . .\u201d <\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
This is a tactic first developed by anti-Catholics James White and James Swan, in the early 2000s, in a cynical attempt to minimize, mock, and dismiss my apologetics work. They decided to rarely if ever mention my name (or to sometimes use \u201cDA\u201d): lest anyone read my work and be led astray to the hideous Harlot and Beast, Catholicism. Swan even once ridiculously wrote a book review of one of my books, without ever mentioning the book title or my name<\/em>. That\u2019s quite a feat!<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Recently, Brazilian apologist Lucas Banzoli outdid Jason, with his \u201c205 Proofs Against the Primacy of Peter.\u201d<\/a> He did at least extend the courtesy (and the standard protocol) of mentioning the person he was responding to:<\/span><\/div>\n
\n
The present study is, first, an extensive and elaborate refutation of a famous Catholic article by Dave Armstrong, which today is in practically all Catholic websites that, in Brazil and in the world, repeat and disseminate a list of 50 \u201cproofs\u201d<\/span><\/span> of the primacy of Peter.<\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
It was only after a long time that I decided to elaborate a rebuttal to that article, not only answering all of Armstrong\u2019s points, but also carrying out 205 proofs against the primacy of Peter, which largely refute all the supposed \u201cevidence\u201d that he found in isolation in the<\/span><\/span> Bible.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
To show that the biblical gospel is not formed by one or another isolated passage that cannot support doctrine, I sought to show a much greater biblical content, clearly demonstrating that Dave\u2019s study was extremely arbitrary and that it absolutely ignored the total content of the Scriptures that<\/span><\/span> vigorously repudiate all his attempts.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
I replied in four parts:<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Reply to Lucas Banzoli\u2019s 205 Potshots at St. Peter, Part I<\/a> [5-26-22] <\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Lucas Banzoli\u2019s 205 \u201cPetrine Potshots\u201d, Part II<\/a> \/ Part III<\/a> \/ Part IV<\/a> [5-30-22]<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Contrary to his high confidence expressed above, not a peep has been heard back from Lucas, these past two months . . . But hope springs eternal!<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
One thing that Jason and some others don\u2019t \u201cget\u201d about my original article is that it\u2019s not about the alleged overwhelming force of any given item, but the <\/span>cumulative effect<\/em><\/strong><\/span> of all of them together. That was the emphasis of Fr. Peter Stravinskas, when he encouraged me to write the article for his magazine, The Catholic Answer<\/em>, in 1997. <\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
In the video a criticism was made about the general drift of my #39. But it was misunderstood. The comparison wasn\u2019t between Peter and everyone else<\/em> in the Bible, but between him and other disciples<\/em>. Here it is:<\/span><\/div>\n
\n
39. Peter\u2019s name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together: 191 times (162 as Peter or Simon Peter, 23 as Simon, and 6 as Cephas). John is next in frequency with only 48 appearances, and Peter is present 50% of the time we find John in the Bible! Archbishop Fulton Sheen reckoned that all the other disciples combined were mentioned 130 times. If this is correct, Peter is named a remarkable 60% of the time any disciple is referred to!<\/span><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Some of my 50 arguments are weaker than others, of course, and I\u2019m not making humungous claims for individual arguments. I\u2019m not epistemologically naive.<\/span> Again, those who are interested would have to read my two counter-replies to Jason. I show how my arguments (rightly understood) stand up and that his do not. Nor, frankly, is he very good at satire and parody: learned arts for sure.<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
***<\/div>\n
\n

Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0fifty books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n

PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong> Christ Handing the Keys to St. Peter<\/em>\u00a0(c. 1482) by\u00a0Pietro Perugino (1448-1523)<\/span>\u00a0[public domain \/\u00a0Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Summary<\/em>: Trent Horn did a video on Jason Engwer\u2019s parody of my article on 50 NT Petrine Proofs.\u00a0 I\u2019ve defended myself twice. Jason didn\u2019t name me or link to my article.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Catholic apologist Trent Horn, on his popular YouTube channel, The Counsel of Trent, did a show entitled, \u201cThe \u2018Pauline parody argument\u2019 against the papacy (with Suan Sonna)\u201d [7-27-22] This was directed towards a 2012 article from Protestant anti-Catholic apologist Jason Engwer, entitled, \u201c51 Biblical Proofs Of A Pauline Papacy And Ephesian Primacy.\u201d What viewers wouldn\u2019t […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":65359,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231,138],"tags":[16312,598,1131,1132,163,1500,161,4287,4288,1130,162,4289,4290,1133,634,1129,16309,16160],"class_list":["post-65356","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","category-papacy-infallibility","tag-50-nt-petrine-proofs","tag-apostolic-succession","tag-bible-papacy","tag-biblical-authority","tag-ecclesiology","tag-jason-engwer","tag-papacy","tag-pauline-papacy","tag-pauline-primacy","tag-petrine-primacy","tag-popes","tag-primacy-of-paul","tag-primacy-of-peter","tag-primacy-of-rome","tag-st-paul","tag-st-peter","tag-suan-sonna","tag-trent-horn"],"yoast_head":"\nJason Engwer, Trent Horn, & My 50 NT Petrine Proofs Jason Engwer, Trent Horn, & My 50 NT Petrine Proofs<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Catholic apologist Trent Horn, on his popular YouTube channel, The Counsel of Trent, did a show entitled, "The 'Pauline parody argument' against the Trent Horn did a video on Jason Engwer's parody of my article on 50 NT Petrine Proofs.\u00a0 I've defended myself twice. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Jason Engwer, Trent Horn, & My 50 NT Petrine Proofs Jason Engwer, Trent Horn, & My 50 NT Petrine Proofs","description":"Catholic apologist Trent Horn, on his popular YouTube channel, The Counsel of Trent, did a show entitled, \"The 'Pauline parody argument' against the Trent Horn did a video on Jason Engwer's parody of my article on 50 NT Petrine Proofs.\u00a0 I've defended myself twice. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/65356","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=65356"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/65356\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/65359"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=65356"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=65356"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=65356"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}