{"id":66829,"date":"2022-09-22T18:15:25","date_gmt":"2022-09-22T22:15:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=66829"},"modified":"2023-02-21T16:07:26","modified_gmt":"2023-02-21T20:07:26","slug":"reply-to-banzolis-analyzing-the-evidence-of-saints-intercession","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/09\/reply-to-banzolis-analyzing-the-evidence-of-saints-intercession.html","title":{"rendered":"Reply to Banzoli&#8217;s &#8220;Analyzing the &#8216;evidence&#8217; of saints&#8217; intercession&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2022\/09\/AbrahamDives.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-66832\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2022\/09\/AbrahamDives-209x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"209\" height=\"300\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lucasbanzoli.com\/2015\/07\/artigos-sobre-catolicismo.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Lucas Banzoli<\/a> is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ\u2019s human nature after His death.\u00a0He has a Master\u2019s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (but now inactive) for six blogs. He\u2019s <a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/c\/LucasBanzoli\/videos?app=desktop\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">active on YouTube<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">This is my\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong?s=banzoli\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">31st refutation<\/a>\u00a0of articles written by Lucas Banzoli. As of yet, I haven\u2019t received\u00a0<em>a single word<\/em>\u00a0in reply to any of them (or if Banzoli\u00a0<em>has<\/em>\u00a0replied to anything, anywhere, he certainly hasn\u2019t informed\u00a0<em>me<\/em>\u00a0of it). Readers may decide for themselves\u00a0<em>why<\/em>\u00a0that is the case. I use RSV for the Bible passages unless otherwise indicated. Google Translate is utilized to render Lucas\u2019 Portugese into English. His words will be in\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m replying to large portions of Lucas\u2019 article, <a href=\"http:\/\/heresiascatolicas.blogspot.com\/2012\/08\/analisando-as-da-intercessao-dos-santos.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cAnalisando as \u201cprovas\u201d da intercess\u00e3o dos santos\u201d<\/a> [<span class=\"goog-text-highlight\"><em>Analyzing the \u201cevidence\u201d of the saints\u2019 intercession<\/em><\/span>] (8-13-12).<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In my last article on the subject, I proved that biblically there is no possibility for those who have died to intercede for those who are alive.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Lucas is here going to argue from his false belief in soul sleep: a heresy that <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/01\/soul-sleep-thorough-biblical-refutation.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">I have thoroughly refuted<\/a>. John Calvin devastated the position in a brilliant refutation called <a href=\"https:\/\/www.monergism.com\/thethreshold\/sdg\/calvin_psychopannychia.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cPsychopannychia, or the Soul\u2019s Imaginary Sleep.\u201d<\/a> There was nothing <em>left<\/em> of this wrongheaded, utterly unbiblical fable after he got through with it. When Calvin (like Luther) argues in favor of truth, he\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> Biblical truth is quite different from that. We show that, in the view of the biblical writers, the dead do not praise God (Is. 38:18-19), do not even remember Him (Ps.6:5),\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Isaiah 38:18-19<\/strong> For Sheol cannot thank thee, death cannot praise thee; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for thy faithfulness. [19] The living, the living, he thanks thee, as I do this day; the father makes known to the children thy faithfulness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Psalm 6:5<\/strong> For in death there is no remembrance of thee; in Sheol who can give thee praise?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Many Protestant commentators hold that the above two passages express a lack of energy or will power in Hades \/ Sheol, as opposed to non-existence or unconscious \u201csleep.\u201d Elsewhere in Isaiah and Ezekiel and Luke the inhabitants of Sheol are described as quite conscious:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Isaiah 14:9-11<\/strong> \u00a0Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come, it rouses the shades to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations. [10] All of them will speak and say to you: \u2018You too have become as weak as we! You have become like us!\u2019 [11] Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are the bed beneath you, and worms are your covering.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In Ezekiel (32:24-25, 30), Sheol is described as a place where the inhabitants \u201cbear their shame\u201d: obviously a conscious event. People there talk and describe others who have joined them in Sheol:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Ezekiel 32:21<\/strong> The mighty chiefs shall speak of them, with their helpers, out of the midst of Sheol: `They have come down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.\u2019<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The \u201crich man\u201d whom Jesus describes is consciously tormented in Sheol \/ Hades (Lk 16:23-25) and prays to Abraham (16:24, 27-28, 30), and Abraham replies (16:25-26, 29, 31). That is hardly consistent with being profoundly \u201casleep\u201d or unconscious.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">do not know anything that happens under the sun (Ec.9:5,6), has no knowledge (Ec.9:10), among many other evidences that we found.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10<\/strong> For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is lost. [6] Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and they have no more for ever any share in all that is done under the sun. . . . [10] Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>If the first clause of 9:5 is understood in an absolute sense, then so must the second clause be interpreted. Thus, the dead would have no \u201creward\u201d as well as no consciousness. This would deny the resurrection and the rewarding of the righteous (see Rev 20:11-13; 21:6-7; 22:12, 14). Obviously, then, a qualification of some sort has to be placed on Ecclesiastes 9:5. In the very next verse, we learn that:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>. . . they have no more for ever any share in all that is done under the sun. . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In other words, in relation to\u00a0<i>this<\/i>\u00a0world, the dead know nothing, but they are in a\u00a0<i>different realm<\/i>, where they\u00a0<i>do<\/i>\u00a0know something. As further examples of this limited sense of \u201cnot knowing anything\u201d in Scripture, see 1 Samuel 20:39 and 2 Samuel 15:11, where an interpretation of unconsciousness would be ridiculous.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> We have also seen that the New Testament does not contradict the Old; on the contrary, it corroborates with it, for it tells the same truths. <\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yes, I totally agree! We saw, for example, that Luke 16, which records a story told by Jesus, gives us a lot of very specific and enlightening information about conscious activities of souls in Sheol, including asking someone other than God to help fulfill intercessory requests.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In this present article, I will refute the isolated passages, distorted and manipulated by some Catholics as supposed \u201cproof\u201d of the intercession of dead saints. As is common with all sects, they also have the isolated passages that are transmitted to their faithful. One of them is the one that says:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><strong>Jeremiah 15:1<\/strong> Then the LORD said to me, \u201cThough Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people. Send them out of my sight, and let them go!<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">With this, Catholics preach that Moses and Samuel interceded for the Israelites. But the passage is far from saying that. God does not say, \u201cMoses and Samuel are interceding before me\u201d; on the contrary, it says: \u201cEven if Moses and Samuel stood before me\u2026\u201d. The difference between one sentence and another is blatant, you just don\u2019t realize who is profoundly ignorant of grammar.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">While the first would show that in fact Moses and Samuel were interceding for them (but that is not what the text says), the second just shows that God would not answer anyone, even if hypothetically one of those two saints of the past could revive to intercede for them. people of Israel.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The assertion of the hypothetical scenario shows that it is possible (and likely that it actually occurs). Moses and Samuel were renowned for their intercessory powers (Ex 32:11-12; 1 Sam 7:9; Ps 99:6). God would not have mentioned these men if it weren\u2019t possible or \u201cthinkable\u201d that they could ever intercede in this way. He simply would have said,<\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u201cmy heart will not turn toward this people.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The thought here is different. He\u2019s saying, in effect: \u201ceven the very best and most effective intercessors will not be able to change my mind on this, if they pled with me.\u201d It would be pointless to make note of what is impossible. It would be like me saying, \u201cEven if a square could simultaneously be a circle, I wouldn\u2019t change my mind.\u201d It\u2019s pointless and meaningless to refer to inherent impossibilities.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It wasn\u2019t that they <em>couldn\u2019t<\/em>\u00a0or\u00a0<em>shouldn\u2019t<\/em> have prayed; rather, even <em>their<\/em> great prayers couldn\u2019t accomplish something if it was already against the will of God. If they in fact weren\u2019t praying to God after their deaths, or shouldn\u2019t have, then God wouldn\u2019t have said that they <em>could<\/em> <em>do<\/em>\u00a0so; and\/or would have\u00a0<em>condemned<\/em>\u00a0it, having brought it up at all in inspired revelation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">In fact, Samuel is referred to as in conscious existence after death, and Saul made an intercessory request of him and he turned it down (rather than say Saul should only pray to God: see 1 Sam 28:3, 13-19). Moses appears, still conscious after death, to Jesus (with Elijah), at the Transfiguration (Mt 17:1-3). In the deuterocanon, it\u2019s stated that Jeremiah continues to pray for the Jews and Jerusalem after his death:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>2 Maccabees 15:13-14<\/strong>\u00a0Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. [14] And Onias spoke, saying, \u201cThis is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Then we have this passage:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Revelation 6:9-11<\/strong>\u00a0When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne;\u00a0[10] they cried out with a loud voice, \u201cO Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?\u201d [11] Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>As I <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/09\/answer-to-banzolis-challenge-re-intercession-of-saints.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">wrote two days ago<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>This is known as an imprecatory prayer: praying for judgment of one\u2019s enemies by God. Wikipedia,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Imprecatory_Psalms#:~:text=Imprecatory%20Psalms%2C%20contained%20within%20the,as%20the%20enemies%20of%20God.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cImprecatory Psalms\u201d<\/a>\u00a0states: \u201cMajor imprecatory Psalms include Psalm 69 and Psalm 109, while Psalms 5, 6, 11, 12, 35, 37, 40, 52, 54, 56, 57, 58, 59, 79, 83, 94, 137, 139 and 143 are also considered imprecatory.\u201d king David asked: very similarly to these \u201csouls\u201d of Revelation 6 in heaven: \u201cHow long shall my enemy be exalted over me?\u201d (Ps 13:2). And again, he cried to God: \u201cHow long, O LORD, wilt thou look on? Rescue me from their ravages, . . .\u201d (Ps 35:17; cf. 74:10; 94:3; 119:84;<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/quod.lib.umich.edu\/cgi\/r\/rsv\/rsv-idx?type=simple&amp;format=Long&amp;q1=how+long+&amp;restrict=Old+Testament&amp;size=First+100\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u00a0see other OT instances<\/a>\u00a0of \u201chow\u00a0<em>long<\/em>\u00a0. . . ?).<\/p>\n<p>Revelation 6:10 is\u00a0<em>exactly<\/em>\u00a0this sort of prayer, made by those in heaven in relation to people on earth. God did answer it, in effect saying, \u201cjust wait a little while longer and be patient, and you will see that I will judge them in due course.\u201d And the Book of Revelation shows how He will do precisely that. So these departed saints (as well as angels) are aware of our prayers and desires. We know that from the two Scriptures above and also the following ones:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\"><strong>Revelation 5:8<\/strong>\u00a0. . . the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\"><strong>Revelation 8:3-4<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [4] and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Another passage used by them is found in Revelation 8:4, which says that \u201cthe smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God\u201d (Rev.8:4). However, this is due to a bad Catholic interpretation of what the \u201csaints\u201d would be. Biblically, the saints are the living who keep the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev.12:17), not those who have died and been canonized by some institutional Church based in Rome or elsewhere.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>As with most biblical words, this has more than one meaning. In Revelation 5 and 8, \u201csaints\u201d simply means \u201call Christians.\u201d This would be a much larger class than canonized Catholic saints. We have no problem with it, and our argument is unaffected by this desperate the <em>non sequitur<\/em> and attempt to dismiss the passage before even attempting to interpret it in a way other than Catholics have. The prayers are coming from those on the earth, and dead Christians and angels in heaven somehow possess them. That\u2019s the whole point!<\/p>\n<p>The <em>actual question at hand <\/em>is: \u201cwhat are these angels <em>doing<\/em> with human [earth-originated] prayers? Why are they involved with them at all? How did they <em>get<\/em> them?\u201d And the same goes for Revelation 5:8 above. The 24 elders are considered dead Christians. Why do <em>they<\/em> have \u201cthe prayers of the saints\u201d? In Catholic theology, it makes perfect sense. In Protestant theology it doesn\u2019t at all. Lucas futilely tries to sidestep the whole question with irrelevancies. It won\u2019t work when I am around to call him on it.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Paul said:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cDo you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?\u201d (1 Corinthians 6:2) <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It doesn\u2019t take a theologian to see the obvious parallelism here. Paul says that \u201cthe saints\u201d will judge the world, and then says that these saints are \u201cyou\u201d. In other words, for Paul the \u201csaints\u201d are not those who have already died and who are supposedly in Heaven interceding for us, but those who are alive and who were even reading that letter!<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yes, in that context, it meant \u201call Christians\u201d and in this instance, in context, the ones alive on the earth. It doesn\u2019t<em> follow<\/em> that Paul thereby <em>precludes<\/em> a usage of saints alive after death in heaven (which would be equivalent to the 24 elders\u201d of Rev 5:8). Lucas simply assumes that without argument or reason (other than his desire to refute Catholics by any means: irrational, false, or not). But that misses the point again. The \u201csaints\u201d referred to in Revelation 5 and 8 don\u2019t <em>have<\/em> to be simply in heaven. The prayers appear to be coming from the \u201csaints\u201d (i.e., Christians) on earth. And this is our argument for the intercession of (dead) saints and angels.<\/p>\n<p>Paul elsewhere refers to saints in heaven: \u201c. . . the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints\u201d (1 Thess 3:13). Marvin Vincent, in his <a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/commentaries\/vws\/1_thessalonians\/3.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Word Studies in the New Testament<\/em><\/a> comments on this: \u201cSaints is often explained as angels; but the meaning is the holy and glorified people of God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Therefore, the term \u201csaints\u201d applies to living believers, and so we are to understand Revelation 8:4, which says that the smoke of the incense that contained the intercession of the saints \u201cwent up\u201d before God. Now, if the biblical text they use says that it \u201cwent up\u201d, then it is because it came from earth and not from Heaven.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">If the prayer of the saints (which Catholics say applies to the saints who are in Heaven canonized by the Catholic Church) came from Heaven, it would not \u201cascend\u201d to God in Heaven, for they would already be there! Therefore, this \u201cgoing up\u201d makes it evident that the prayer really came from those saints who were on earth, as we see throughout Holy Scripture.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Exactly our argument, yes. They came from earth, and the elders and angels in heaven got them somehow and presented them to God. Lucas seems to think the prayers are<em>\u00a0not<\/em> from earth (as Catholics construe the argument). As usual, he is out to sea as to what our beliefs even <em>are<\/em>, let alone the biblical <em>rationales<\/em> for them. And so he is not effectively responding. He\u2019s battling against straw men again.\u00a0But (to nitpick a bit) he is wrong about \u201cwent up\u201d or \u201crose\u201d in Revelation 8:4. That\u2019s simply describing the incense and prayers going up to God, Who is higher up on a throne: all in heaven. We know that from Isaiah 6:1: \u201cI saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Finally, some make use of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as a last desperate attempt to \u201cprove\u201d the intercession of the saints. <\/span><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s but one of several dozen arguments \u2014 none of them \u201cdesperate\u201d \u2014 that I myself have written about (perhaps one or two even semi-original).<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">However, what we see in this latest attempt is that: <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">1. Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, and as such its means are not to be taken literally. <\/span><\/p>\n<p>The Protestant <em><a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/commentaries\/benson\/luke\/16.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Benson Commentary<\/a><\/em> stated:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[T]he characters in [the story] are drawn in such lively colours that many have been of opinion, in all ages of the church, that it is not a parable, but a real history. . . . It matters not much, however, to us, in the application of it, whether it be a parable or a real history, since the important truths contained in it are equally clear and equally certain, in whichever light it be considered.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Likewise,<em> <a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/commentaries\/poole\/luke\/16.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Matthew Poole\u2019s Commentary<\/a><\/em>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>It is a question of no great concern for us to be resolved about, whether this be a history, or narrative of matter of fact, or a parable. Those that contend on either side have probable arguments for their opinion, and it may be they best judge who determine it to be neither the one nor the other, but a profitable discourse, that hath in it something of both. Our chief concern is to consider what our Lord by it designed to instruct us in.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/commentaries\/bengel\/luke\/16.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bengel\u2019s Gnomen<\/a><\/em> takes a middle position: \u201cit is a parable, though a true narrative may lie underneath it . . .\u201d<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">If so, we should also grant literalness to the means of other parables, which would even include the one in which the trees converse with each other (2 Ki.14:9). Will Catholics use this other parable as \u201cproof\u201d that trees also intercede for the living and really talk to each other? Of course not. But it is not the same as the parable of Lazarus! <\/span><\/p>\n<p>2 Kings 14:9 is not a parable (nor analogous to Luke 16), but rather, non-literal Old Testament hyperbole: and understood as such by everyone.<\/p>\n<p class=\"s8\">People are never named in parables. In this story, three people are named: Lazarus (Lk 16:20, 23), Abraham (16:23-24), and Moses (16:29, 31). Parables refer to people impersonally; for example: \u201ca man who sowed good seed\u201d (Mt 13:24), \u201ca king\u201d (Lk 14:31-42), \u201cmaster of the house\u201d (Mt 24:42-44), \u201cevil servant\u201d (Mt 24:48-51), \u201ca man taking a far journey\u201d (Mk 13:34-37), \u201ca judge\u201d (Lk 18:2), \u201ca widow\u201d (Lk 18:3), \u201ca certain man\u201d (Lk 13:6), \u201ca certain rich man\u201d (Lk 12:16), and so forth.<\/p>\n<p class=\"s8\">Parables also always have an earthly (usually agricultural-type) setting, which the people hearing could relate to. In Luke 16, Hades (16:23) and<span style=\"font-size: 13.3333px;\">\u00a0\u201c<\/span>Abraham\u2019s bosom\u201d (16:22) refer to the afterlife, showing that this is not a parable. And parables are usually \u2014 if not always \u2014 \u00a0also prefaced by a statement (usually by the Bible writer, not Jesus) that the words following are to be considered a \u201cparable.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" align=\"justify\">But even if we grant for the sake of argument that it\u00a0<i>is<\/i>\u00a0a parable, the difficulties for Protestants are not overcome at all, since even parables cannot contain things that are <em>theologically false<\/em>, lest Jesus be guilty of leading people into heresy by means of untrue illustrations or analogies.<\/p>\n<p class=\"western\" align=\"justify\">In fact, my contention would be even\u00a0<i>stronger<\/i> if it is a parable, for in a non-parable, a person could do or say something theologically incorrect. But in a parable taught by an omniscient Jesus, Who is God, in an inspired, infallible revelation, falsehood could not be \u201censhrined.\u201d What Jesus is teaching His hearers cannot contain theological error, and arguments by analogy (basically what the parables are) cannot contain false principles. We can only conclude, then, that Jesus sanctioned \u201cprayer to\u201d dead men for requests. That is the traditional notion of \u201ccommunion of saints.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"ZyvIDe\">\n<div class=\"a8FIud X0rvP L6rCcb\" data-apply-responsive-style=\"true\" data-classes=\"\" data-initial-translation-length=\"1469\" data-saved-translation-limit-reached=\"false\">\n<div data-show-delay-ms=\"250\" data-append-to-body=\"false\" data-propagate-tooltip-mouseover-events=\"true\" data-anchor-corner=\"bottom-end\" data-enable-skip-handler=\"false\" data-popup-corner=\"top-end\">\n<div class=\" B2mKhd eQGGme xGUN1\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">2. If the parable were to be understood literally, <\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>The story <em>is<\/em> literal, because it actually happened. It\u2019s a story that has a moral.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div class=\"ZyvIDe\">\n<div class=\"a8FIud X0rvP L6rCcb\" data-apply-responsive-style=\"true\" data-classes=\"\" data-initial-translation-length=\"1469\" data-saved-translation-limit-reached=\"false\">\n<div data-show-delay-ms=\"250\" data-append-to-body=\"false\" data-propagate-tooltip-mouseover-events=\"true\" data-anchor-corner=\"bottom-end\" data-enable-skip-handler=\"false\" data-popup-corner=\"top-end\">\n<div class=\" B2mKhd eQGGme xGUN1\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">then we should assume that heaven and hell are right next to each other, as your house is to your neighbor\u2019s house (Luke 16:23), which the righteous will see. <\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>It\u2019s not about heaven and hell, but about Hades \/ Sheol: which is where the dead went before Christ\u2019s ascension, and which had a \u201cgood\u201d compartment and a bad one, as this very story makes clear (more theology taught by Jesus that <em>must<\/em> be true). That\u2019s why <a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/parallel\/luke\/16-23.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">virtually every modern English Bible translation<\/a> has \u201cHades\u201d at Luke 16:23. In cases of usually older translations where \u201chell\u201d appeared, it was understood that it was a <em>wider meaning<\/em> of the word <em>hell<\/em>, which included the outer area of Sheol.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Likewise,<a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/parallel\/luke\/16-22.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> almost every translation<\/a> (even the old ones), have \u201cAbraham\u2019s bosom\u201d or similar at Luke 16:22 (see a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/verse\/en\/Luke%2016:22\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">second, even longer list<\/a>). New Living Translation has \u201cheavenly banquet\u201d and \u201cGood News Translation\u201d has \u201cheaven.\u201d But these are highly paraphrased versions and mere outliers. If heaven were intended as the meaning, surely the mainstream versions would have stated as much. But they don\u2019t.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div class=\" B2mKhd eQGGme xGUN1\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Their friends and relatives burning and dying horribly on the other side (Lk. 16:23-24), that those in Heaven can easily converse with those in Hell as Abraham did with the rich man in the parable (Lk. 16:24-25),<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Since the premise is wrong (this isn\u2019t heaven and hell), the conclusion Lucas draws from the false premise is also untrue.<\/div>\n<div class=\"ZyvIDe\">\n<div class=\"a8FIud X0rvP L6rCcb\" data-apply-responsive-style=\"true\" data-classes=\"\" data-initial-translation-length=\"1469\" data-saved-translation-limit-reached=\"false\">\n<div data-show-delay-ms=\"250\" data-append-to-body=\"false\" data-propagate-tooltip-mouseover-events=\"true\" data-anchor-corner=\"bottom-end\" data-enable-skip-handler=\"false\" data-popup-corner=\"top-end\">\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div class=\" B2mKhd eQGGme xGUN1\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">that an incorporeal spirit has a tongue and is thirsty (Lk. 16:24), <\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>This is a common biblical description of suffering, even though technically, it is a spirit. It\u2019s pout in those terms so that human beings, who have bodies, can relate to it. But we know even while having bodies, that anguish and suffering need not be merely physical at all.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div class=\" B2mKhd eQGGme xGUN1\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">among many other important details. Do Catholics perceive these other facts or do they pretend that they only notice what serves to \u201cvalidate\u201d their doctrine?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>We notice what the Bible teaches: <strong><em>all<\/em><\/strong> of it: not carefully selected portions, with others being roundly ignored.<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">3. Even if the parable were something literal and we should ignore all the facts above and many others that you can check by clicking here, we see that the rich man\u2019s attempt at intercession was not successful (Luke 16:29-31). Therefore, if we take it literally, we should use it as evidence against rather than in favor of the safety and reliability of the intercession of the dead for the living.<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>Not at all. This is simply more shoddy, unreflective thinking. I answered this objection in an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/05\/dialogue-on-praying-to-abraham-luke-16.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">article from May 2016<\/a>:<\/div>\n<div>\n<blockquote><p>Abraham says no (16:25-26), just as God will say no to a prayer not according to His will. He asks him again, begging (16:27-28).\u00a0Abraham refuses again, saying (16:29): \u201cThey have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.\u2019\u201d\u00a0He asks a third time (16:30), and Abraham refuses again, reiterating the reason why (16:31).<\/p>\n<p>How this does\u00a0<strong><em>not<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0support the principle of saints interceding and being able to intercede is a mystery to me. If we were not supposed to ask saints to pray for us, I think this story would be almost the very<em>\u00a0last<\/em>\u00a0way to make\u00a0<em>that<\/em>\u00a0supposed point.<\/p>\n<p>Abraham would simply have said, \u201cyou shouldn\u2019t be asking\u00a0<em>me<\/em>\u00a0for anything; ask\u00a0<em>God<\/em>!\u201d In the same way, analogously, angels refuse worship when it is offered, because only God can be worshiped [I cite Rev 19:9-10; 22:8-9; Acts 10:25-26; 14:11-15 to back up my point] . . .<\/p>\n<p>If the true theology is that Abraham cannot be asked an intercessory request, then Abraham would have noted this and refused to even\u00a0<em>hear<\/em>\u00a0it. But instead he\u00a0<em>heard<\/em>\u00a0the request and said\u00a0<em>no<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus couldn\u2019t possibly have taught a false principle. . . .<\/p>\n<p>Abraham doesn\u2019t deny that he is\u00a0<em>able<\/em>\u00a0to potentially send Lazarus to do such a thing; he only denies that it would\u00a0<em>work<\/em>\u00a0(by the logic of \u201cif they don\u2019t respond to greater factor\u00a0<em>x<\/em>, nor will they respond to lesser factor\u00a0<em>y<\/em>\u201d). Therefore, it is assumed in the story that Abraham had the ability and authority to do so on his own. . . .<\/p>\n<p>All this shows is that an intercessory prayer can be rejected by God (or, here, Abraham), if it isn\u2019t according to God\u2019s will. It doesn\u2019t disprove the manifest ability to make an intercession of father Abraham. . . .<\/p>\n<p>[T]he point is not that it is merely \u201cthe mistake of a damned sinner.\u201d Rather, it is a supposed \u201cmistake\u201d which <em>Abraham did not correct<\/em>, and which (ultimately)\u00a0<em>Jesus Himself did not correct<\/em> within the story. Thus, according to this flawed and fallacious logic, Jesus sanctioned a very serious theological error (which is not possible!). . . .<\/p>\n<p>[I]t is blasphemous to worship anyone but God; therefore, Paul and Peter and angels all specifically refuse worship and rebuke such a notion. Thus, if a prayer to Abraham was similarly blasphemous, in the story given by the omniscient Jesus, he certainly would have rebuked the prayer request and pointed the rich man to God. But he doesn\u2019t. He simply says that the request (not the very notion of <em>prayer itself<\/em>!) is denied. \u00a0If the prayer were improper this certainly would have been pointed out, lest Jesus lead astray His followers into seriously false and dangerous doctrine (according to how Protestants view it).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<p>So Lucas hasn\u2019t disproven the use of Luke 16 as a proof of intercession of the saints <em>at all<\/em>: not in the slightest. He <em>thinks<\/em> he has, but in fact he has <em>not<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In view of these facts, it is ignorant to try to \u201cprove\u201d the intercession of the saints by using some isolated and distorted passages of the Bible,<\/span><\/p>\n<p>How could any part of inspired, infallible revelation be <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cisolated\u201d<\/span>? All of Scripture is important. It\u2019s all there for a reason; to <em>teach<\/em> us. Luke 16 has a purpose, and Jesus had a point to make. What <em>was<\/em> it, pray tell? Lucas hasn\u2019t <em>told<\/em> us. All he\u2019s done is pretended that he has refuted the Catholic interpretation. But even if he had (and if us wicked Catholics were dead wrong), it would still be his intellectual burden to tell us what it <em>does<\/em> mean. We have <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cdistorted\u201d<\/span> nothing, either. What we have done is accepted the authority of a teaching of our Lord Jesus, and given it the most straightforward interpretation, instead of trying to make up a bunch of excuses for dismissing it.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> which, when put to the test in the light of exegesis, <\/span><\/p>\n<p><em>What<\/em> exegesis? Lucas rarely <em>does<\/em> any. And as usual in my replies, I run rings around him with Scripture, by routinely producing five, ten times or more relevant Scripture than he ever brings to the table. And I<em> interact<\/em> with <em>his<\/em> arguments, whereas he has never yet done that with mine.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">prove to have no evidence alleged by Catholics, but are easily refuted and collapsed one by one. <\/span><\/p>\n<p>Right. If he were so confident, you\u2019d think he would come down from his cave in the hills and interact with my critiques. Like many people, he has all the confidence in the world up until someone with the ability to do so offers a serious<em> critique<\/em> of his arguments. Then it\u2019s crickets and silence.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Fortunately, once again the Bible explains the Bible, and exegesis overturns Rome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Once again, Lucas is dead-wrong, and the Bible (which I have massively cited) supports our positions all down the line, and creates insuperable problems for the contrary Protestant positions.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2009\/06\/dave-armstrongs-catholic-apologetics-bookstore-49-books-paperback-e-pub-mobi-nook-book-amazon-kindle-itunes-pdf-rock-bottom-regular-prices-67-savings-for-e-books-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fifty books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2014\/01\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/02\/the-biblical-basis-of-apologetics-defense-of-christianity.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0<em>monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/us\/webapps\/mpp\/sem\/account-selection-signup\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0<strong><em>Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em> The Bad Rich Man in Hell<\/em>, by James Tissot (1836-1902)<\/span>\u00a0[public domain \/\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Brooklyn_Museum_-_The_Bad_Rich_Man_in_Hell_(Le_mauvais_riche_dans_l'Enfer)_-_James_Tissot_-_overall.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><em>Summary<\/em>: Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli makes several really bad \u201cexegetical\u201d arguments against saints\u2019 intercession in the Bible. I easily dispose of them.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ\u2019s [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":66832,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231,206],"tags":[16144,16141,1168,8,201,16066,16167,371,372,16161,717,16147,4500,16630],"class_list":["post-66829","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","category-saints-purgatory-penance","tag-asking-saints-to-pray","tag-baptists-invocation-of-saints","tag-catholic","tag-catholicism","tag-communion-of-saints","tag-contra-catholic-apologetics","tag-interceding-saints","tag-intercession-of-the-saints","tag-invocation-of-saints","tag-lucas-banzoli","tag-praying-to-saints","tag-praying-to-the-saints","tag-roman-catholic","tag-saints-intercession"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Reply to Banzoli&#039;s &quot;Analyzing the &#039;evidence&#039; of saints&#039; intercession&quot; Reply to Banzoli&#039;s &quot;Analyzing the &#039;evidence&#039; of saints&#039; intercession&quot;<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Lucas Banzoli is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing Brazilian Protestant apologist Lucas Banzoli makes several really bad &quot;exegetical&quot; arguments against saints&#039; intercession in the Bible. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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