{"id":6749,"date":"2016-04-05T11:03:40","date_gmt":"2016-04-05T15:03:40","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=6749"},"modified":"2017-03-01T12:32:41","modified_gmt":"2017-03-01T16:32:41","slug":"on-mystery-reason-in-theology","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/04\/on-mystery-reason-in-theology.html","title":{"rendered":"On Mystery &#038; Reason in Theology"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-6750 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2016\/04\/OpticalIllusion.png\" alt=\"OpticalIllusion\" width=\"640\" height=\"640\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">[<a href=\"https:\/\/pixabay.com\/en\/optical-illusion-black-pattern-153444\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Pixabay<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/publicdomain\/zero\/1.0\/deed.en\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">CC0 public domain<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This was from a private dialogue about whether Jesus\u2019 possessed the Beatific Vision in this life, as related to discussions of the knowledge and consciousness of Jesus and the Hypostatic Union (Two Natures of Christ), as discussed in two previous papers of mine<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/04\/jesus-beatific-vision-young-messiah.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">one<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/03\/jesus-self-knowledge-the-magisterium-w-j-akin.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">two<\/a>]<span style=\"color: #000000;\">, related to the film, <em>The Young Messiah<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Our level of human understanding of a doctrine is one thing; magisterial proclamations of the truthfulness of the doctrine are another. I fail to see how the mysteriousness of a doctrine is any reason to reject it. There are a host of doctrines in Catholicism that we can\u2019t figure out (or totally comprehend, I should say) with our human capabilities. Transubstantiation? Millions reject our faith because of that. A God Who never had a beginning, and Who is everywhere and knows everything: Who indeed [in the case of the Father] doesn\u2019t even have <em>emotions<\/em> as we know them? All of that is barely conceivable in our minds.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The Two Natures is of similar perplexity, but we certainly can\u2019t reject that. It\u2019s <i>de fide<\/i> dogma. I certainly don\u2019t understand how two very different natures can exist in one Person. But I understand even less how Three Persons can somehow be One God. I don\u2019t reject the Trinity or the Hypostatic Union or transubstantiation because they are barely able to be grasped; neither do most Catholics who consider themselves orthodox and obedient to the magisterium. So why should <i>this<\/i> issue be a special case? It seems to me that the magisterium has made it clear <i>enough<\/i>. It\u2019s recent theologians who have muddied the waters and made unclear what appeared quite clear as to the teaching (though not totally comprehensible) in past Catholic treatments.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Cardinal Newman wrote in his <i>Apologia<\/i>\u00a0(one of my favorite passages of his):<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt, as I understand the subject; difficulty and doubt are incommensurate. There of course may be difficulties in the evidence; but I am speaking of difficulties intrinsic to the doctrines themselves, or to their relations with each other. A man may be annoyed that he cannot work out a mathematical problem, of which the answer is or is not given to him, without doubting that it admits of an answer, or that a certain particular answer is the true one. Of all points of faith, the being of a God is, to my own apprehension, encompassed with most difficulty, and yet borne in upon our minds with most power.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">People say that the doctrine of Transubstantiation is difficult to believe; I did not believe the doctrine till I was a Catholic. I had no difficulty in believing it, as soon as I believed that the Catholic Roman Church was the oracle of God, and that she had declared this doctrine to be part of the original revelation. It is difficult, impossible, to imagine, I grant;\u2014but how is it difficult to believe? . . . for myself, I cannot indeed prove it, I cannot tell\u00a0<i>how<\/i> it is; but I say, \u201cWhy should it not be? What\u2019s to hinder it? What do I know of substance or matter? just as much as the greatest philosophers, and that is nothing at all . . .<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div><a href=\"https:\/\/www.shms.edu\/content\/dr-robert-fastiggi\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Robert Fastiggi<\/a>, <span style=\"color: #000000;\">a Professor of Systematic Theology, wrote about the communication of idioms between Jesus\u2019 Divine and human natures. He stated:\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Pius XII, in this passage, does not claim that this vision was derived from the human nature of Christ. The human nature of Christ, however, was never separated from the concrete Person of the Incarnate Word. The human nature, moreover, was distinct from but never separated from the divine nature in Christ. It was the<i> Person<\/i> of Jesus that had this beatific knowledge not His human nature <i>per se<\/i>.\u00a0Exactly <i>how <\/i>Christ\u2019s human knowledge and divine knowledge coexisted in His one divine Person remains something of a mystery. Following Chalcedon, however, we must believe that they coexisted (and continue to exist) without confusion or change, without division or separation. (private letter to me, 4-4-16)<\/span><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s mysterious, but I don\u2019t see that in and of itself as sufficient grounds to <i>doubt<\/i> the doctrine, even if it is not <i>de fide<\/i>, like these other ones are: per my analogies above.<\/span><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">We can\u2019t\u00a0\u201ccrack\u201d the mysteries of theology and the incarnation and God\u2019s nature by using purely intellect. Mere intellect is inadequate to resolve it by solely its own methods of reason and logic.\u00a0Intellect alone cannot completely conceive of the mystery of the Holy Trinity or the mystery of transubstantiation. Why would we think it would be otherwise in <i>this<\/i> instance? We\u2019re dealing with some of the most mysterious and mind-boggling teachings of the Catholic faith. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s like the theological\u00a0method of Jehovah\u2019s Witnesses (my first theological opponents back in the early 80s), who maintain that the Holy Trinity is eminently unreasonable because three cannot equal one. For them it is all rationalism, and that trumps faith and the Bible, biblical paradox and mystery, and actual historical tradition.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">We can sit here all day and try to figure out what none of us can fully comprehend\u00a0(not being both God and man as Jesus is), and, failing that, decide whether we accept various\u00a0doctrines or not. But the bottom line is that we must accept what the Church <i>teaches<\/i>, as can best be determined.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Seven-year-old Jesus <i>was<\/i> \u201cthe Person of [God the] the Son\u201d and so He knew this as a Divine Person. How He did that in (specifically) His \u201chuman way of knowing\u201d may be difficult to figure out or relate to, but in any event, Jesus is a Divine Person and not merely a nature. Therefore, He (the Divine Person) knew this, and yet this was denied in <em>The Young Messiah<\/em>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>[Pixabay \/ CC0 public domain] *** This was from a private dialogue about whether Jesus\u2019 possessed the Beatific Vision in this life, as related to discussions of the knowledge and consciousness of Jesus and the Hypostatic Union (Two Natures of Christ), as discussed in two previous papers of mine [one \/ two], related to the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":6750,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[112,172],"tags":[2473,459,2579,465,469,2580,470,2577,2578,2575,2576,1446],"class_list":["post-6749","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-philosophy-science","category-trinitarianism-christology","tag-beatific-vision","tag-christology","tag-consciousness-of-jesus","tag-hypostatic-union","tag-incarnation","tag-jesus-human-knowledge","tag-kenosis","tag-mystery-in-christianity","tag-paradox","tag-systematic-theology","tag-theology-reason","tag-two-natures"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>On Mystery and Reason in Theology<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The mysteriousness of a doctrine is no reason to reject it. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"On Mystery and Reason in Theology","description":"The mysteriousness of a doctrine is no reason to reject it. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6749","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6749"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6749\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6750"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6749"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6749"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6749"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}