Lucas Banzoli<\/a> is a very active Brazilian anti-Catholic polemicist, who holds to basically a Seventh-Day Adventist theology, whereby there is no such thing as a soul that consciously exists outside of a body, and no hell (soul sleep and annihilationism). This leads him to a Christology which is deficient and heterodox in terms of Christ\u2019s human nature after His death.\u00a0He has a Master\u2019s degree in theology, a degree and postgraduate work in history, a license in letters, and is a history teacher, author of 25 books, as well as blogmaster (but now inactive) for six blogs. He\u2019s<\/span> active on YouTube<\/a>.<\/p>\n This is my<\/span>\u00a048th refutation<\/a> of Banzoli\u2019s writings. From\u00a0 5-25-22 until 11-12-22 (almost half a year) he didn\u2019t write even one single<\/em> word<\/em> in reply. Since then he has counter-responded three times. Why so few<\/em> and so late<\/em>? Well, he says it\u2019s because my articles are<\/span> \u201cwithout exception poor, superficial and weak . . . <\/span>only a severely cognitively impaired person would be inclined to take\u201d<\/span>\u00a0them<\/span>\u00a0\u201cseriously.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0He didn\u2019t<\/span>\u00a0\u201cwaste time reading\u201d<\/span> 37 of my first 40 replies (three articles being his proof of the worthlessness of all<\/em>\u00a0of my 4,000+ articles and 51 books). He also denied that I had a<\/span>\u00a0\u201cjob\u201d<\/span>\u00a0and claimed that I didn\u2019t\u00a0<\/span>\u201cwork.\u201d<\/span> But he concluded that replying to me is so<\/span> \u201centertaining\u201d<\/span> that he resolved to<\/span> \u201cmake a point of rebutting\u201d<\/span> my articles<\/span> \u201cone by one.\u201d\u00a0<\/span>I disposed of his relentlessly false personal insults in Facebook posts dated<\/span> 11-13-22<\/a> and<\/span> 11-15-22<\/a> and<\/span> 11-23-22<\/a>.<\/p>\n My current effort is a major multi-part response to Banzoli\u2019s 1900-page self-published book,<\/span> The Legend of the Immortality of the Soul<\/em><\/a>\u00a0[A Lenda da Imortalidade da Alma<\/em>], published on 1 August 2022.\u00a0 He claims to have<\/span>\u00a0\u201ccover[ed] in depth all the immortalist arguments\u201d<\/span>\u00a0and to have<\/span>\u00a0\u201cpresent[ed] all the biblical proofs of the death of the soul . . .\u201d<\/span>\u00a0and he confidently asserted:<\/span>\u00a0\u201cthe immortality of the soul is at the root of almost all destructive deception and false religion.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0He himself admits on page 18 of his Introduction that what he is opposing is held by<\/span>\u00a0\u201cnearly all the Christians in the world.\u201d <\/span>A sincere unbiblical error (and I assume his sincerity) is no less dangerous than a deliberate lie, and we apologists will be \u201cjudged with greater strictness\u201d for any false teachings that we spread (Jas 3:1).<\/span><\/p>\n I use RSV for the Bible passages (including ones that Banzoli cites) unless otherwise indicated. Google Translate is utilized to render Lucas\u2019 Portugese into English. Occasionally I slightly modify clearly inadequate translations, so that his words will read more smoothly and meaningfully in English. His words will be in<\/span> blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n See the other installments:<\/span><\/p>\n See also the related articles:<\/span><\/p>\n Seven Replies Re Interceding Saints (vs. Lucas Banzoli)<\/a>\u00a0[5-25-22]<\/span><\/p>\n Answer to Banzoli\u2019s \u201cChallenge\u201d Re Intercession of Saints<\/a>\u00a0[9-20-22]<\/span><\/p>\n Bible on Praying Straight to God (vs. Lucas Banzoli)<\/a>\u00a0[9-21-22]<\/span><\/p>\n Reply to Banzoli\u2019s \u201cAnalyzing the \u2018evidence\u2019 of saints\u2019 intercession\u201d<\/a>\u00a0[9-22-22]<\/span><\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n Revelation 11:11-12<\/strong> But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. [12] Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, \u201cCome up hither!\u201d And in the sight of their foes they went up to heaven in a cloud.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Note that the prophets\u2019 souls are not said to have departed from their bodies at the time of from death and returned at the resurrection, but that a breath of life entered into them from God, who raised them up before all. This breath is precisely the spirit that came from God and returns to God in death (Ecclesiastes 12:7). It\u2019s not a personal being with conscience and personality. It wasn\u2019t the prophets themselves that returned to the body, but only the divine breath of life that animates the body, allowing them to come back to life.<\/span> (p. 308)<\/p>\n As long as there is only body, there is no life. While there is only spirit, there is no life. There is only life when there is a body animated by a spirit. Just as there is no life in the body that perishes alone under the earth, there is no life in a \u201cspirit\u201d alone apart from the body.<\/span> (p. 310)<\/p>\n Ecclesiastes 12:7 [is] one of the most quoted (and most<\/span><\/span> shamefully distorted) by the immortalists.<\/span><\/span> The text in question says that<\/span><\/span> at <\/span>death \u201cand the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/span>For advocates of the immortality of the soul, . . . the spirit is a<\/span><\/span> little ghost that leaves the body taking with it the consciousness and personality of the<\/span><\/span> person <\/span>straight into the presence of God in heaven.<\/span> (pp. 317-318)<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n How interesting, then, that St. Paul teaches directly contrary to Banzoli:<\/p>\n 2 Corinthians 12:2-4<\/strong> I know a man<\/em> in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven \u2014 whether in the body<\/em> or out of the body<\/em> I do not know, God knows. [3] And I know that this man<\/em> was caught up into Paradise \u2014 whether in the body<\/em> or out of the body<\/em> I do not know, God knows \u2014 [4] and he<\/em> heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n What this passage shows is that Paul was in heaven. He believes it is possible to be there as a \u201cman\u201d either<\/em><\/strong> \u201cin the body\u201d or \u201cout of the body.\u201d He remains himself<\/em> in either scenario. If he\u2019s in<\/em> his body, it\u2019s him (Paul). If he is out<\/em> of his body, it\u2019s still him (Paul). The logic of this passage doesn\u2019t permit any other interpretation. And it viciously, fatally contradicts Banzoli\u2019s soul sleep. Paul expresses the same notion at least two other times:<\/p>\n 2 Corinthians 5:8<\/strong>\u00a0. . . we<\/em> would rather be away from the\u00a0body<\/em>\u00a0and at home with the Lord<\/em>.<\/p>\n Philippians 1:23-24<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . \u00a0My<\/em> desire is to depart and be with Christ<\/em>, for that is far better. [24] But to remain\u00a0in the flesh<\/em>\u00a0is more necessary on your account.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n If Paul was nonexistent after death, since a soul supposedly can\u2019t exist apart from a body, how could he be \u201chome with the Lord\u201d and \u201cbe with Christ\u201d while \u201caway\u201d from his \u201cbody\u201d and \u201cflesh\u201d? When he says \u201cwe<\/strong><\/em>\u201d would be \u201caway from the\u00a0body\u00a0and at home with the Lord\u201d this proves that he is still referring to himself<\/em><\/strong> as a soul, who would be with the Lord. This is dualism and immortal souls, folks. Again he says that he would \u201cdepart and be with Christ\u201d which is in contrast<\/em><\/strong> to \u201cremain[ing] in the flesh.\u201d This absolutely proves that he is talking about himself as a continuing conscious entity who can \u201cbe with Christ\u201d outside of his flesh or body.<\/p>\n If what returns to God is a living, conscious <\/span><\/span>personality in heaven, this implies that a living, conscious, and personal spirit was in heaven with God before he came into the world, which is a glaring heresy of the worst kind<\/span><\/span>, known as the pre-existence of souls (believed by spiritists and other<\/span><\/span> <\/span>reincarnationists).<\/span> (pp. 319-320)<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n This doesn\u2019t follow. Christians believe that each man\u2019s soul or spirit is a supernatural creation of God at the time of their conception. That\u2019s when it begins (just as it did with Adam). Human beings can\u2019t create souls through procreation: only bodies. There is no implication at all that such a return to God means that the soul or spirit pre-existed in heaven. That\u2019s made up out of whole cloth by Banzoli, in order to create yet another straw man that he can shoot down: foolishly thinking that he defeats the immortality of the soul in so doing.<\/p>\n The entire Old Testament\u00a0 is unanimous in saying that both the righteous and the wicked descend likewise to Sheol in death, instead of going up to God\u2019s presence in heaven.<\/span> (p. 223)<\/p>\n Exactly! That\u2019s how it was before the death and resurrection of Christ, and Jesus referred to it:<\/p>\n Luke 16:22-23<\/strong> \u00a0The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham\u2019s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; [23] and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz\u2019arus in his bosom.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Then He proceeded to teach that the rich man and Abraham were both quite conscious and carried on a conversation (16:24-31). Other Old Testament verses show the same consciousness, as I documented in past installments of this series.<\/p>\n [I]mmortalists assume a priori<\/em> that the spirit in the Bible is that which reflects Greek thought, which leads them to pervert any text where they find the slightest loophole to shove Platonic dualism into Scripture.<\/span> . . . immortalists would be quick to answer \u201cin heaven\u201d, \u201cin hell\u201d, \u201cin the Bosom of Abraham\u201d, \u201cin limbo\u201d, \u201cin purgatory\u201d, \u201cin the world of spirits\u201d or in any other conscious intermediate state that they created, . . .<\/span> (p. 325)<\/p>\n That would include our Lord Jesus in Luke 16. He\u2019s perverting true doctrine because (apparently) He was also \u201cignorant\u201d<\/span> of Scripture, as Banzoli claims all \u201cimmortalists\u201d<\/span> (i.e., orthodox traditional Christians) are.<\/p>\n If the translator does not feel comfortable translating a text in the contained in it, he takes the liberty of changing the text, suppressing the ideas of the author for his own ideas.<\/span> (p. 329)<\/p>\n More conspiracy theories, that Banzoli constantly asserts throughout this ridiculous book. I have noted it many times before. We expect atheists to argue like this, but not alleged Christians (who really aren\u2019t) like Banzoli. But wacko conspiratorialism and the heretical mindset fit together very well.<\/p>\n Even angels do not have a spirit in the same sense as immortalists claim we possess. They are spirits, in the sense of being spiritual beings of a superior dimension and therefore invisible to our eyes, but, as previously explained, they\u2019re far from being untouchable \u201cghosts\u201d that walk through walls in the spirit world; otherwise no battle with Satan and his angels would be possible (Dan 10:12-13, 20; Rev 12:7-8). In other words, angels evidently have a nature distinct from ours because of being created in a superior dimension with its own rules that transcend our knowledge, but they\u2019re not disembodied ghosts, like the immortalists imagine our soul or spirit to be. They are called \u201cspirits\u201d because they are beings of a spiritual dimension, not because they are intangible in their relationship with each other and with their own world.<\/span> (p. 334)<\/p>\n This is yet more heresy. Angels are immaterial spirits<\/a>, just as God the Father and the Holy Spirit are. It\u2019s not surprising that Banzoli doesn\u2019t know this. He may<\/em> also think that God the Father has a body, as Jehovah\u2019s Witnesses believe. We\u2019ll see! That may turn up later in his contemptible book.<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,000+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0fifty books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0Saint Michael the Archangel and Another Figure Recommending a Soul to the Virgin and Child in Heaven<\/em>, by Bartolomeo Biscaino (1629-1657)<\/span>\u00a0[public domain \/\u00a0Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n Summary<\/em>: Part 12 of many responses to Lucas Banzoli\u2019s 1900-page book, The Legend of the Immortality of the Soul<\/em>: published on 1 August 2022. I defend historic Christianity.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"![\"\"](\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2022\/11\/SoulsHeaven-1.jpg\")
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