{"id":7049,"date":"2016-04-19T10:32:17","date_gmt":"2016-04-19T14:32:17","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=7049"},"modified":"2017-02-27T14:51:43","modified_gmt":"2017-02-27T18:51:43","slug":"sola-scriptura-the-eitheror-mindset","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/04\/sola-scriptura-the-eitheror-mindset.html","title":{"rendered":"Sola Scriptura & the “Either\/Or” Mindset"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"ViciousCircle2\"<\/p>\n

Board of Illusion<\/em>, by Piotr Siedlecki<\/span> [PublicDomainPictures.net<\/a>]<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

The following is my post and some of the ensuing Facebook discussion, from 1 July 2012:<\/span><\/p>\n

A person (\u201cJoe\u201d) who is Catholic, but obviously laboring under some serious Protestant remnants in his thought, wrote under Fr. Dwight Longenecker\u2019s review of<\/span> my book on this topic<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\u201cMost Protestants will come around to admit they to honor their own traditions. But what they won\u2019t admit is that any authority is more supreme than Scripture. . . . But too many apologists spend so much time qualifying<\/em>\u00a0Catholic belief in the Bible, they make its inspiration seem moot. . . . I find the words of another erstwhile apologist, Greg Kreibel [it\u2019s Krehbiel], very on target:<\/span><\/p>\n

\u2018What good is an infallible Bible without an infallible Church to interpret it?\u2019 I\u2019ve heard that too many times to count.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat good is an infallible Bible? That any Christian can seriously ask the question defies belief. . . . That kind of language makes Protestants roll their eyes. (\u2018Those Catholics really don\u2019t get it, do they?\u2019) . . . When a Catholic utters the phrase, \u201cWhat good is an infallible Bible\u201d he has given up any claim to credibility with that Evangelical. It would be like asking a man who was just rescued from the desert, \u2018What good is water without a crystal glass to drink it in?\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cBad habit: Trying to magnify the Church and Catholic doctrine by disparaging the Bible. Remedy: Always speak of the Bible reverently.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

The statement cited (a legitimate use of pointed rhetoric) is not untrue in and of itself. Protestants may interpret it wrongly, but that is because it is divorced from context. Protestants always tend to think Catholics are running down the Bible whenever we criticize sola Scriptura<\/em>, because they are taught to think in illogical \u201ceither\/or\u201d terms, and because they equate sola Scriptura<\/em> with love and reverence for the Bible (the two are not at all the same thing).<\/span><\/p>\n

The Bible uses similar language: \u201cWhat does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?\u201d (James 2:14). The point is that faith and works inevitably must be together. By Joe\u2019s reasoning, saying that faith is of no profit unless accompanied by works, is to run down faith. But of course, St. James is not doing that at all. He is simply saying that faith cannot be isolated<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Likewise, we Catholics say that the Bible is not isolated. To assert this is not to run it down at all\u00a0<\/em>(not in the slightest<\/em>), anymore than faith is run down in Scripture. The fault lies in the erroneous interpretation of the language and the idea.<\/span><\/p>\n

For the Catholic, there is no teaching \u201cmore supreme than Scripture\u201d (Joe\u2019s words). Catholics believe in a three-legged stool of authority: none higher than the other, but all working in tandem: Scripture-Church-Tradition.<\/span><\/p>\n

Many a Protestant simply assumes illogically (and rather arrogantly, I might add), that to disagree with sola Scriptura<\/em> (the false notion that the Bible is the only infallible source of authority) is automatically to disrespect Scripture. This is absurd. Basically, it amounts to saying, \u201cif you don\u2019t take my particular position on the rule of faith, you\u2019re a bad guy. No one could possibly disagree with sola Scriptura<\/em> and also reverence the Bible. They must<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0agree with my position in order to love the Bible.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Needless to say, this is hogwash, and doesn\u2019t follow at all. Many Protestants are so wrapped up in sola Scriptura<\/em> \u2014 like a fish in a fishbowl, that doesn\u2019t know it\u2019s in one, or that there is a world outside of the bowl \u2014 that they can\u2019t even comprehend or imagine any other position on the relationship of Bible, Church, and tradition, and so must run down any other view as somehow unsavory and irreverent.<\/span><\/p>\n

Greta Villani (Catholic) wrote:<\/span> \u201cAll I know is that every time I talk with Protestants and I ask \u2018show me from Scripture why you believe all doctrines must be in the Bible\u2019\u2026they change the subject.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Of course they do, and that is very telling, isn\u2019t it? Even they know instinctively that they can\u2019t do it. If they could<\/em> do it, they certainly would<\/em>, and should<\/em> be able to do so since they have made this their flimsy, crumbling foundation.<\/span><\/p>\n

Richard Grebenc (Catholic) asked:<\/span> \u201cAny number of arguments against sola Scriptura<\/em> seem to me to be a slam dunk. But who argues sola Scriptura<\/em> best? That is, who takes on the various Catholic arguments against it systematically and does the best job in attempting to refute them?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

You can\u2019t make a silk purse out of a sow\u2019s ear, so no one can do a really good job. Most Protestant apologists don\u2019t even deal with Catholic arguments, so that is not much of a factor. But the best I have seen so far is William Goode, whose arguments<\/span> I am answering presently<\/a>.<\/p>\n

\u201cAnd what do you see as the fatal flaw running through even the most cogent and reasoned responses?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

That they are always and inevitably self-defeating, if analyzed far enough. I show that again and again in my critiques.<\/span><\/p>\n

Robert Weeks (Protestant) asked:<\/span> \u201cWhy would one need a statement from the Bible that the Bible is the only infallible rule of faith?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

1. because it is altogether to be expected that a source that is claimed as the only infallible one, would make the claim in the first place, and not simply assume its own status as self-evident.<\/span><\/p>\n

2. because it is the only way that the claim can escape vicious self-contradiction:<\/span><\/p>\n

A) there is one infallible source.<\/span><\/p>\n

B) the claim of A is either infallible or fallible.<\/span><\/p>\n

C) in order to be infallible, by the system\u2019s own criteria, it must be in the Bible itself.<\/span><\/p>\n

D) But it is not. Therefore, Protestants are relying on a fallible assertion of men (no different than any other tradition) in order to establish that a document is infallible. This makes no sense. It\u2019s thoroughly incoherent and inconsistent. Protestants rail against tradition and then turn around and are forced to use one in order to supposedly overthrow all tradition as authoritative. It\u2019s ludicrous.<\/span><\/p>\n

*****<\/span><\/p>\n

Meta Description:\u00a0Brief treatment of the incoherence of sola Scriptura, or Scripture Alone as the only infallible rule of faith.<\/span><\/p>\n

Meta Keywords:\u00a0Bible Only, biblical prooftexts, biblical theology, Christian Authority, exegesis, hermeneutics, Holy Bible, infallible authority, Rule of Faith, Sacred Scripture, Scripture Alone, Sola Scriptura<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Board of Illusion, by Piotr Siedlecki [PublicDomainPictures.net] ***** The following is my post and some of the ensuing Facebook discussion, from 1 July 2012: A person (\u201cJoe\u201d) who is Catholic, but obviously laboring under some serious Protestant remnants in his thought, wrote under Fr. Dwight Longenecker\u2019s review of my book on this topic: \u201cMost Protestants […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":7051,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31],"tags":[514,1879,1878,33,1387,1386,535,1877,32,536,35,47],"class_list":["post-7049","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible-and-tradition","tag-bible-only","tag-biblical-prooftexts","tag-biblical-theology","tag-christian-authority","tag-exegesis","tag-hermeneutics","tag-holy-bible","tag-infallible-authority","tag-rule-of-faith","tag-sacred-scripture","tag-scripture-alone","tag-sola-scriptura"],"yoast_head":"\nSola Scriptura & the "Either\/Or" Mindset<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Brief treatment of the incoherence of sola Scriptura, or Scripture Alone as the only infallible rule of faith.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" 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Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. 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Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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