{"id":73143,"date":"2023-05-14T13:22:20","date_gmt":"2023-05-14T17:22:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=73143"},"modified":"2023-05-14T15:51:53","modified_gmt":"2023-05-14T19:51:53","slug":"reply-to-hays-catholicism-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/05\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-2.html","title":{"rendered":"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>Asking Patron Saints to Intercede; Miracles Among Catholics &amp; Protestants\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2023\/05\/WhoreOfBabylon2.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-73107\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2023\/05\/WhoreOfBabylon2-300x220.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"220\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">The late\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/12RTV6fuxvf0GGCnZRsTh9lTDJcRZq89w\/view\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Steve Hays<\/a>\u00a0(1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer, who was very active on his blog, called\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=&amp;cad=rja&amp;uact=8&amp;ved=2ahUKEwjAsa_6h_D-AhUvjIkEHYIgBNYQFnoECA0QAQ&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Ftriablogue.blogspot.com%2F&amp;usg=AOvVaw2ZWaW1pxhwgoZ7JLKlwnnI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Triablogue<\/em>\u00a0<\/a>(now continued by Jason Engwer). His 695-page self-published book,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1m3awWHKjOeSsJBJTlYJI9H36FoGzn81P\/view\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Catholicism<\/em><\/a>\u00a0\u2014 which appears to simply be a collection of his articles on his site \u2014 has graciously been made available there for free. This is one of\u00a0<em>many<\/em>\u00a0planned critiques of that book. Rather than list them all in individual sections, interested readers are directed to the \u201cSteve Hays\u201d section of my\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/anti-catholicism-index-page.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Anti-Catholicism web page<\/a>, where they will all be listed. My Bible citations are from the RSV. Steve\u2019s words will be in\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">[<strong>Chapter 1: Miracles<\/strong>]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Anthony, don\u2019t pray for me<\/span><\/strong> [p. 11: subtitle]<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">[Francis] Beckwith prays to the patron saint of cancer patients on behalf of a cancer patient, who nevertheless dies shortly thereafter. How does that validate St. Anthony\u2019s reputation as a long-distance healer? If the patient was cured, that would be impressive. But since the patient succumbed, that hardly furnishes supporting evidence for Anthony\u2019s reputation. [p. 11]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Unanswered prayer no more disproves the practice of asking patron saints to intercede to God than it disproves prayer to God Himself when He says \u201cno.\u201d And that\u2019s because God may always will not to answer a prayer, for reasons usually known to Him alone. This is an explicitly biblical doctrine:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>1 John 5:14<\/strong>\u00a0And this is the confidence which we have in him, that if we ask anything\u00a0<em>according to his will<\/em>\u00a0he hears us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>James 4:3\u00a0<\/strong>You ask and\u00a0<em>do not receive<\/em>,\u00a0<em>because<\/em>\u00a0<em>you ask wrongly<\/em>, to spend it on your passions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>James 1:7-8\u00a0<\/strong>For that person must not suppose that a\u00a0<em>double-minded man, unstable in all his ways<\/em>, will receive anything from the Lord.<\/p>\n<p><strong>James 5:16<\/strong>\u00a0. . .\u00a0The prayer of a\u00a0<em>righteous man<\/em>\u00a0has great power in its effects.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hebrews 10:22<\/strong>\u00a0let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our\u00a0<em>hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience<\/em>\u00a0and our bodies washed with pure water.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Psalm 66:18\u00a0<\/strong>If I had\u00a0<em>cherished iniquity<\/em>\u00a0in my heart, the Lord\u00a0<em>would not have listened<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Proverbs 15:8\u00a0<\/strong>The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD,\u00a0but the\u00a0<em>prayer of the upright<\/em>\u00a0is his delight.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Isaiah 1:15\u00a0<\/strong>When you spread forth your hands,\u00a0I will hide my eyes from you;\u00a0even though you make many prayers,\u00a0<em>I\u00a0will not listen<\/em>;\u00a0<em>your hands are full of blood<\/em>. (cf. Jer 11:11)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Isaiah 59:2<\/strong>\u00a0but your iniquities have made a separation\u00a0between you and your God,\u00a0and\u00a0<em>your sins have hid his face from you\u00a0so that he does not hear<\/em>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Even St. Paul\u2019s petitionary prayer request was expressly turned down by God:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>2 Corinthians 12:7-9<\/strong>\u00a0And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated.\u00a0[8]\u00a0<em>Three times I besought the Lord about this<\/em>, that it should leave me;\u00a0[9]\u00a0<em>but he said to me, \u201cMy grace is sufficient for you<\/em>, for my power is made perfect in weakness.\u201d I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The prophet Jonah prayed to God to die (Jonah 4:3): \u201cTherefore now, O LORD, take my life from me, I beseech thee, for it is better for me to die than to live.\u201d (cf. 4:8-9). God obviously didn\u2019t fulfill the request, and chided Jonah or his anger (4:4, 9). The prophet Ezekiel did the same: \u201cO LORD, take away my life\u201d (1 Kgs 19:4). God had other plans, as the entire passage shows. If we pray something stupidly, God won\u2019t answer. He knows better than we do.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus also tells the story (not a parable, which don\u2019t have proper names) in Luke 16 of Lazarus and the rich man, in which two petitionary requests (in effect, prayers: 16:24, 27-28, 30) to Abraham are<em>\u00a0turned down<\/em>\u00a0(16:25-26, 29, 31). Since Jesus is teaching theological principles or truths, by means of the story, then it follows that it\u2019s His own opinion as well: that prayers are not always answered. They have to be according to God\u2019s will.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It\u2019s like \u201cevidence\u201d for global warming. If there\u2019s a warming trend, that\u2019s evidence for global warming\u2013but if there\u2019s a cooling trend, that\u2019s consistent with global warming. Whether it\u2019s wetter or drier, that\u2019s evidence for global warming. If either outcome is consistent with St. Anthony\u2019s reputation, then does anything really count as evidence for or against his reputation? Or is it just random? [p. 11]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The attempted analogy doesn\u2019t apply here because of the important and central additional factor of prayer being conditional upon it being God\u2019s will, just explained.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">v) Assuming (ex hypothesi) that it\u2019s a miracle, what kind of miracle would it be? Not like turning water into wine or the multiplication of food. Rather, this would be a coincidence miracle. A result of God\u2019s extraordinary providence.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">That, however, is very predestinarian. That assumes God prearranged ordinary circumstances to converge on this opportune and naturally improbable outcome. If so, that\u2019s inconsistent with the libertarian strand of Catholic theology (e.g. Jesuit theologians). [p. 11]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>This is another caricature of Catholic theology. We believe in God\u2019s providence as much as any Calvinist does, and we believe in the predestination of the elect and of whatever<em> events<\/em> God chooses to be predestined. Where we disagree is over the predestination of the damned. We deny that; Calvinists affirm it. Nor is predestination in the slightest incompatible with Jesuit theology (Molinism and suchlike: which happens to be my own view). Jesuits, being Catholics, accept predestination like the Thomists and any other Catholics. They simply have a different view of its implementation or operation by God and precisely how human free will is related to it.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">vi) Assuming (ex hypothesi) that it\u2019s a miracle, does it validate the cult of the saints? [p. 11]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>If it happens enough times, yes, just as in the case of any other miracle. It <em>validates and suggests<\/em> this, while not absolutely <em>proving<\/em> it.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Not unless you think the only function of a miracle is to attest doctrine. Moreover, that\u2019s offset by Protestant miracles. [p. 11]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s neither here nor there. If something happens enough times, and suggests that \u201c<em>x<\/em> caused miracle <em>y<\/em>,\u201d then that is cumulative evidence for <em>x<\/em> indeed being the cause or a contributing cause of <em>y<\/em>. Protestants experience miracles because they are incorporated into the Body of Christ by virtue of the regeneration of their baptism, which is a true sacrament. So declared <em>Trent<\/em> (i.e., this is nothing <em>new<\/em>).<\/p>\n<p>Again, prayers of this sort (<em>distinctively Catholic<\/em> prayers) are substantiated to the extent that they appear to be answered again and again: precisely as with prayers directly to God. It\u2019s difficult to absolutely prove <em>anything<\/em> regarding prayer, but we can only look to patterns in cause and effect, suggesting \u201csuccess\u201d or \u201cfailure.\u201d Atheists reject all Christian prayers; anti-Catholics take a very dim \u2014 if not outright hostile \u2014 view of <em>Catholic<\/em> prayers. What <em>else<\/em> is new?<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Ecclesiastical miracles<\/span> <\/strong>[p. 15: subtitle]<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Unlike the schismatic Protestant sect, Rome is verifiably the one true church because she enjoys miraculous attestation. So goes the argument. <\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">One problem with this claim\u2013a problem which has become more manifest since the Reformation\u2013is the fact that Rome doesn\u2019t enjoy a monopoly on reported miracles. There are reported Protestant miracles as well as reported Catholic miracles. Therefore, even if we grant for the sake of argument that Catholicism enjoys prima facie miraculous evidence, the same holds true for Protestantism. [p. 15]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>What Hays doesn\u2019t do is comment on the <em>relative numbers of miracles<\/em>. I contend that we experience many <em>more<\/em>, relative to Protestantism (and we freely acknowledge that miracles occur among Protestants, as already alluded to). It helps us to have more miracles, seeing that many Protestants don\u2019t even believe that they <em>occur<\/em> anymore, either due to lack of faith and a full belief or false and unbiblical theological premises regarding miracles (cessationism or Hays\u2019 own semicessationism).<\/p>\n<p>Catholics even have many <em>entire categories of miracles<\/em> that we believe in, whereas most Protestants don\u2019t: such as exorcisms (discussed in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/05\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-1.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">reply #1<\/a>), incorruptible bodies of saints (a phenomenon that Protestants have the most difficult time trying to explain, leading most of them to simply avoid the topic like the plague), weeping statues of Mary, eucharistic miracles, Marian apparitions, the stigmata, living on the Eucharist alone, levitation, bilocation, etc. We even believe in ghosts, unlike a great many Protestants, who collapse all such occurrences to the horrible and utterly forbidden occult, seances, sorcery, necromancy, etc.<\/p>\n<p>C. S. Lewis (quite Protestant) wrote about seeing the ghost of his wife, Joy, in his book, <em>A Grief Observed<\/em>. He didn\u2019t feel the need to rationalize this away as a demon impersonating her, etc. Several incidents in the Bible involve dead people coming back to earth (e.g., the prophet Samuel, the two witnesses of Revelation, those who come out of their tombs after the crucifixion, Elijah and Moses at the Transfiguration, etc.).<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">My point is not to vouch for any particular claim, but just to make the fairly obvious observation that this fixture of the traditional apologetic for Roman Catholicism now backfires. We can call your reputed miracles and raise you. [p. 15]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Not at all, as just explained. Our claims for miracles never had anything to do with whether Protestants<em> also<\/em> have miracles in their midst. Baptismal regeneration is a miracle, so is initial justification and being filled with the Holy Spirit and the sacrament of matrimony: things that happen to Protestants by the hundreds of millions. It\u2019s a non-issue for us. But if we want to talk about <em>quantities<\/em> of miracles and many more <em>categories<\/em> of them, Catholics \u201cwin\u201d hands down.<\/p>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<p><strong><em>Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,200+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2009\/06\/dave-armstrongs-catholic-apologetics-bookstore-49-books-paperback-e-pub-mobi-nook-book-amazon-kindle-itunes-pdf-rock-bottom-regular-prices-67-savings-for-e-books-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fifty-one books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2014\/01\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/02\/the-biblical-basis-of-apologetics-defense-of-christianity.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div>\n<p>Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0<em>monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/us\/webapps\/mpp\/sem\/account-selection-signup\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0<strong><em>Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>The Whore of Babylon<\/em>\u00a0(workshop of Lucas Cranach): colorized illustration from Martin Luther\u2019s 1534 translation of the Bible\u00a0<\/span>[public domain \/\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Whore-babylon-luther-bible-1534.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><em>Summary<\/em>: The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. This is one of my many critiques of Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d: a 695-page self-published volume.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Asking Patron Saints to Intercede; Miracles Among Catholics &amp; Protestants\u00a0 The late\u00a0Steve Hays\u00a0(1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer, who was very active on his blog, called\u00a0Triablogue\u00a0(now continued by Jason Engwer). His 695-page self-published book,\u00a0Catholicism\u00a0\u2014 which appears to simply be a collection of his articles on his site \u2014 has graciously been made available there [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":73107,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231],"tags":[2361,17736,17733,17730,17724,2119],"class_list":["post-73143","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-calvinist-anti-catholicism","tag-calvinist-steve-hays","tag-critiques-of-catholicism","tag-hays-catholicism","tag-steve-hays"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Asking Patron Saints to Intercede; Miracles Among Catholics &amp; Protestants\u00a0 The late\u00a0Steve Hays\u00a0(1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer, The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. This is one of my many critiques of Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d: a 695-page self-published volume.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/05\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-2.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Asking Patron Saints to Intercede; Miracles Among Catholics &amp; Protestants\u00a0 The late\u00a0Steve Hays\u00a0(1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer, The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. This is one of my many critiques of Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d: a 695-page self-published volume.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/05\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-2.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2023-05-14T17:22:20+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-05-14T19:51:53+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2023\/05\/WhoreOfBabylon2.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"640\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"469\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"9 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/05\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-2.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/05\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-2.html\",\"name\":\"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2023-05-14T17:22:20+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-05-14T19:51:53+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"Asking Patron Saints to Intercede; Miracles Among Catholics &amp; Protestants\u00a0 The late\u00a0Steve Hays\u00a0(1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer, The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #2","description":"Asking Patron Saints to Intercede; Miracles Among Catholics &amp; Protestants\u00a0 The late\u00a0Steve Hays\u00a0(1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) writer, The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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