{"id":73959,"date":"2023-06-07T11:03:18","date_gmt":"2023-06-07T15:03:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=73959"},"modified":"2023-06-07T11:03:18","modified_gmt":"2023-06-07T15:03:18","slug":"reply-to-hays-catholicism-26","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/06\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-26.html","title":{"rendered":"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Choosing to Pursue Truth; Received Tradition; Carnal Man &amp; the Bible; Venial Sin; Newman No Innovator; Immaculate Conception; Mary\u2019s <em>In Partu<\/em> Virginity; Catholic Prooftexts = <em>Sola Scriptura<\/em>?; Bible &amp; Mary\u2019s Perpetual Virginity<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2023\/05\/WhoreOfBabylon2.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-73107\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2023\/05\/WhoreOfBabylon2-300x220.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"220\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The late\u00a0<\/span><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/12RTV6fuxvf0GGCnZRsTh9lTDJcRZq89w\/view\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Steve Hays<\/a><span style=\"color: #000000;\"> (1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) apologist, who was very active on his blog, called<\/span> <a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=&amp;cad=rja&amp;uact=8&amp;ved=2ahUKEwjAsa_6h_D-AhUvjIkEHYIgBNYQFnoECA0QAQ&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Ftriablogue.blogspot.com%2F&amp;usg=AOvVaw2ZWaW1pxhwgoZ7JLKlwnnI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Triablogue<\/em>\u00a0<\/a><span style=\"color: #000000;\">(now continued by Jason Engwer). His 695-page self-published book,<\/span>\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1m3awWHKjOeSsJBJTlYJI9H36FoGzn81P\/view\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Catholicism<\/em><\/a> \u2014<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> a collection of articles from his site \u2014 has graciously been made available for free. On 9 September 2006, Hays was quite \u2014 almost extraordinarily \u2014 charitable towards me.<\/span> <a href=\"http:\/\/triablogue.blogspot.com\/2006\/09\/open-letter-to-dave-armstrong.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">He wrote then<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever accused him of being a traitor or apostate or infidel. . . . I have nothing to say, one way or the other, regarding his state of grace. But his sincerity is unquestionable. I also don\u2019t dislike him. . . . I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anything malicious about Armstrong\u2014unlike some people who come to mind. In addition, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever said he was unintelligent. For the record, it\u2019s obvious that Armstrong has a quick, nimble mind.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Two-and-a-half years later, starting in April 2009 and up through December 2011 (in the following quotations) his opinion radically changed, and he claimed that I have <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201can evil character,\u201d<\/span> am<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cactually evil,\u201d <\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cego-maniac, narcissist,\u201d \u201cidolater,\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cself-idolater,\u201d \u201chack who pretends to be a professional apologist,\u201d<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">given to <\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cchicanery,\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">one who doesn\u2019t<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cdo any real research,\u201d \u201ca stalwart enemy of the faith . . .\u00a0 no better than <span style=\"color: #000000;\">[the atheists]<\/span> Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens,\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">with an intent to<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cdestroy faith in God\u2019s word,\u201d \u201cschizophrenic,\u201d \u201cemotionally unhinged,\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">one who<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cdoesn\u2019t trust in the merit of Christ alone for salvation,\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201chas no peace of mind,\u201d \u201ca bipolar solipsist,\u201d \u201csplit-personality,\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">and a<\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> \u201cbad\u201d<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\"> man. He wasn\u2019t one to mince words! See<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\/posts\/2391711580863813\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">more gory details<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I feel no need whatsoever to reciprocate these silly and sinful insults. I just wanted the record to be known. I\u2019ve always maintained that Hays was a very intelligent man, but habitually <a href=\"https:\/\/www.etymonline.com\/word\/sophism\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">a sophist<\/a> in methodology; sincere and well-meaning, but tragically and systematically wrong and misguided regarding Catholicism. That\u2019s what I\u2019m addressing, not the state of his heart and soul (let alone his eternal destiny). It\u2019s a theological discussion. This is one of <em>many<\/em> planned critiques of his book (see<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\/posts\/pfbid02i9cCYq3XgP9ExioN5qQycevrzWqcV9DLMSu5Kw68E9CGhniCcRxqaJs1PE6cY3RKl?__cft__%5B0%5D=AZVFHvpYojqZseLhNy_Lve8EmaHdZBfJ5UJaMuKSRTp4c1iMjXmlDzhhIrhEMCyXQC2B6gUz_wiDHiB4ITFuiuXZTYsnS07x9EVi7P3k93awPX7nt6LowBFsdgA4dAJwQH8&amp;__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">my reasons why<\/a> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">I decided to do this). Rather than list them all here, interested readers are directed to the \u201cSteve Hays\u201d section of my<\/span> <a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/anti-catholicism-index-page.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Anti-Catholicism web page<\/a>, <span style=\"color: #000000;\">where they will all be listed. My Bible citations are from the RSV. Steve\u2019s words will be in\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">[<strong>Chapter 9: Magisterium]<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Two paradigms<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Roman Catholicism privileges the outlook of select individuals, viz. popes, bishops in ecumenical councils, Latin Fathers, church Doctors. [p. 514]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The Bible privileges the outlook of select individuals, viz. patriarchs, prophets, bishops at the Jerusalem council, apostles, Bible writers, evangelists like Paul and Peter.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">There\u2019s a problem with positing inhuman standards of certainty. An artificial standard that humans can\u2019t attain. Everyone loses out when you set the bar that high. [p. 514]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s no problem with positing divine and biblical standards of certainty: a blessing or gift that humans can\u2019t attain without God\u2019s grace. Everyone wins out when God sets the bar that high, so that human beings can know spiritual and theological truth.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In addition, each of us is ultimately at the mercy of divine providence for what we believe. [p. 514]<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Joshua 24:15<\/strong> And if you be unwilling to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>2 Timothy 4:3-4<\/strong> For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, [4] and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It\u2019s ultimately up to God whether your particular aptitude and experience guide you into truth. [p. 514]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Whether articles of faith must be certain depends on the kind of world we live in. Has God put us in a world where articles of faith must be certain? What if God put us in a world where articles of faith must only be likely? Can we know in advance of the fact which of those two worlds we inhabit? Isn\u2019t that something we must discover? [p. 533]<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>1 Timothy 2:3-4<\/strong> . . . God our Savior, [4] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In the text [2 Thes 2:15] you initially cited, Paul points to his own teaching, and not some free-floating <em>paradosis<\/em>\u00a0[<em>tradition<\/em>].<\/span> [p. 516]<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>1 Corinthians 15:3-7<\/strong>\u00a0For I delivered to you as of first importance<em> what I also received<\/em>, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures,\u00a0[4] that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, [5] and that he appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve. [6] Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. [7] Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Catholics will make certain theological and ethical mistakes which some Protestants will avoid because Protestants don\u2019t stop with the received answers but scrutinize them. [p. 517]<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>2 Timothy 3:6-8<\/strong> . . . burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, [7] who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. [8] As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Private interpretation<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The Bible is propositional revelation. The meaning of Scripture can be understood by outright unbelievers. In that respect, understanding the Bible is no different than understanding a secular text. The role of the Holy Spirit is to engender receptivity to the message, not comprehension of the message. [p. 525]<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>1 Corinthians 1:18-21<\/strong> For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. [19] For it is written, \u201cI will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart.\u201d [20] Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [21] For since, in the wisdom of God, <em>the world did not know God through wisdom<\/em>, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.<\/p>\n<p><strong>1 Corinthians 2:11-14, 16<\/strong> For what person knows a man\u2019s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, <em>that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God<\/em>. [13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit. [14]\u00a0The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and <em>he is not able to understand them<\/em> because they are spiritually discerned. . . .\u00a0\u00a0[16] \u201cFor who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?\u201d But we have the mind of Christ.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Romans 1:18, 21-22<\/strong>\u00a0For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth\u2026.[21] for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but <em>they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened<\/em>. [22] Claiming to be wise, they became fools, . . .<\/p>\n<p><strong>2 Peter 3:15-16<\/strong> . . . So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, [16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them <em>hard to understand<\/em>, <em>which the ignorant and unstable twist<\/em> to their own destruction, <em>as they do the other scriptures<\/em>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Catholic fideism<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">From a Protestant perspective, not all theological errors are culpable errors, much less damnably culpable. [p. 534]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>From a Catholic perspective, not all theological errors are culpable errors, much less damnably culpable. This is precisely the [biblical and common sense] distinction we make between venial and mortal sin.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">There\u2019s no reason to think God will punish Christians who make innocent mistakes. [p. 534]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>We totally agree. So does St. Paul:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>1 Timothy 1:12-13<\/strong> he judged me faithful by appointing me to his service, [13] though I formerly blasphemed and persecuted and insulted him; but I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief,<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">John Henry Newman . . . invented the theory of development. [p. 534]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>For the <em>umpteenth time<\/em> (repetition is a good teacher, except when lies like this are repeated), Cardinal Newman invented nothing. He developed one particularly fine-tuned and in-depth theory of development, completely from notions of development of doctrine that had been developing for over 1400 years: from St. Augustine and (especially) St. Vincent of Lerins, through Aquinas and others, to Mohler twenty years before Newman\u2019s <em>Essay<\/em> came out in 1845.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Nowadays we see how the magisterium uses the theory of development to abrogate entrenched tradition and rationalize theological innovations. [p. 534]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s a lie, too. In fact,\u00a0 the Catholic Church roundly condemned evolution of dogma, which is very different from development of doctrine. They\u2019re not the same at all. <em>Nothing<\/em> has changed in that regard. Hays is over his head, and true to form, he ignorantly and rather stupidly and irresponsibly conflated the two concepts (one orthodox and espoused by the Catholic Church and the other heretical and condemned by her). In a past reply I documented how the pope most opposed to modernism, Pope St. Pius X, gave a ringing endorsement of the orthodoxy of St. Cardinal Newman\u2019s thinking, including development. As John Adams said, \u201cfacts are stubborn things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">[Chapter 10: Marian Dogmas]<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Marian mythology<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">What would count as evidence for the Immaculate Conception? What kind of evidence would even be probative? In the nature of the case, there could be no physical evidence for the Immaculate Conception. [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>As in my many defenses of it: 1) the meaning of <em>kecharitomene<\/em> in Luke 1:28 (\u201cfull of grace\u201d), 2) what it means to be full of grace, according to Paul (without sin), 3) the fittingness (yes, that is a biblical concept) of Mary being without sin, original and actual, as the Mother of God, 4) analogies to other holy figures made holy by God in the womb in accordance with their high calling, 5) the biblical and patristic typology of the New or Second Eve, who reversed the \u201cno\u201d of Eve with a \u201cyes\u201d to God, 6) #3 and #5 lead logically to a special miraculous act of grace by God at the very beginning of Mary\u2019s existence; i.e., at her conception, 7) pondering why an angel would \u201chail\u201d Mary, 8) the possibility and actuality of other sinless creatures in the Bible (analogy), 9) The NT analogy of Mary as the new ark of the covenant.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> In what respect, if at all, would the Immaculate Conception even be detectable to Mary or her parents? [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Primarily by special revelation, which is precisely what Mary received. God sent the angel Gabriel to her. Secondly, as she went through life, due to being preserved from original sin, Mary wouldn\u2019t be burdened by the concupiscence (tendency or desire to sin) that the rest of us labor under, and she would come to be aware of that by talking to others who <em>did<\/em> have to deal with it. Her lack of actual sin would also set her apart from everyone around her except for Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Assuming (<em>ex hypothesi<\/em>) that Mary was sinless, what evidence could there be that she was sinless from the moment of her conception, rather than at some later stage in utero, or as a newborn baby, or one-year-old? In other words, if God intervened to exempt her from the stain of original sin, how would Mary or her parents know when that happened? Even in principle, how could there be any evidence for the timing of God\u2019s intervention? [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Good and interesting question. I\u2019m just speculating (hopefully piously!), but I think that it would be an extrapolation from knowledge of Old Testament saints like Jeremiah being chosen and set aside from the womb and pondering that such a special grace may as well be from the very beginning of her preborn life or conception, according to what was known (biologically) of such things in those days. They knew that a person began in the womb (as a result of intercourse), formed by God because that is biblical (in the Psalms and elsewhere). They didn\u2019t know that it was so early that it had no detectable signs. They didn\u2019t know about DNA, etc.<\/p>\n<p>In other words, Mary would have had to think about it and speculate, just as Duns Scotus later did. Whether she actually worked all that out, we simply don\u2019t know. But in any event, she didn\u2019t<em> have<\/em> to for it to be true. It\u2019s interesting to think about, but has absolutely no bearing on whether the doctrine is true or not. If I don\u2019t know how my stomach and intestines and colon and kidneys and liver digest and filter food, it doesn\u2019t follow that they aren\u2019t doing so in my body. They are what they are and they do what they do, regardless of my state of knowledge about their workings.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">For that matter, surely the church fathers had a different understanding of conception and the moment of conception, than we do, thanks to modern gynecology and related disciplines. [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yes they did, because of the primitive state of biology and reproductive biology. So for centuries they held to Mary being actually sinless, but not freed from original sin. Some may perhaps have thought (I don\u2019t recall examples) that her sanctification began in the womb, analogous to Jeremiah, John the Baptist, etc. Freedom from actual sin is the kernel of the more developed doctrine of freedom from original sin (taking it back to her conception rather than her birth), which was first probably fully understood by <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Duns_Scotus\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Blessed Duns Scotus<\/a> (c. 1265-1308).<\/p>\n<p>Since Hays had no understanding of development of doctrine at all, and rejected it in his ignorance, all of this would be gibberish to him. He thought that every doctrine emerged from the pages of the Bible whole and entire, and incapable of any further development. Hence he stated that Chalcedonian Christology was lower than that of the Bible.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">So what does the traditional dogma even mean? [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>It means that the kernel (actual sinlessness based on fittingness as the Mother of God) was there from the beginning: indeed in Luke 1:28 and that it was developed over many centuries as the Immaculate Conception, to be declared as a dogma at the highest level in 1854. Catholics actually believe that pious Christians can ponder spiritual things, even for many centuries, and come to deeper understandings of them, with the help of the Holy Spirit.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Is it not far more likely that this belief evolved through multiple stages of theological speculation? [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yes, it went through a long process, but it consistently <em>developed<\/em> rather than <em>evolved<\/em>\u00a0(like a dinosaur to a mammal or suchlike) into something totally other than what it was from the beginning.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Consider the virginity <em>in partu<\/em>. What would even count as evidence for that claim? Would there be physical evidence? [p. 536]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Obviously the evidence was an intact hymen after the birth of Jesus, which is what the ancients meant by \u201cvirginity \u201cduring\u201d birth, and traditionally the physical meaning of virginity, as opposed to the lack of engagement in sexual intercourse, as today. And the Blessed Virgin Mary would know this and know what she went through (or didn\u2019t go through) during the miraculous birth and could tell Luke this information. It\u2019s not difficult to figure these things out (whether one <em>believes<\/em> them or <em>not<\/em>). This <em>is<\/em> the evidence, and in this case it\u2019s empirical \/ physical.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Notice two clashing Catholic paradigms. On the one hand is the old, pre-Newmanesque, Counter-Reformation (a la Bellarmine) paradigm, where you attempt to prooftext Catholic dogma from Scripture. [p. 537]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Funny, I\u2019ve been doing that for 32 years. It\u2019s what I am probably most known for in my apologetics.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Yet so many Catholics fight tooth-n-nail for these traditional prooftexts, as if they really believe in sola scripture [sic], which makes them cling for dear life some Biblical warrant for each and every Catholic dogma. [p. 537]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><em>Sola Scriptura<\/em> is the belief that Scripture is the final authority and standard and only infallible one for doctrine and theology. It\u2019s the Protestant rule of faith. Catholics producing biblical proof for Catholic doctrines is simply systematic theology: done by all sorts of Christians. It\u2019s apples and oranges, or more like apples and squash. The two have nothing to do with each other. So why did Hays make this silly comparison?<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The schizophrenia is something to behold. Perhaps psychotropic medication will relieve the unbearable tension. [p. 537]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Since Hays\u2019 equation doesn\u2019t fly in the first place, the melodramatic and sophistical potshot based on the wrongly imagined contradiction flowing from the non-comparison simply makes Hays look ridiculous. It\u2019s a familiar trait. Some old saying about \u201cdon\u2019t spit in the wind . . . \u201d comes to mind.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Notice that defending Catholicism is just as complicated as defending Protestantism. [p. 537]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yeah? Having defended both, I find Catholicism much easier to defend, because there are a great many more applicable biblical evidences to bring to bear. Catholicism takes all of the Bible into account. Protestantism (i.e., in its many guises) tends to greatly emphasize merely a few prooftexts that are employed over and over, while many other relevant passages are ignored.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Is the PVM a big deal?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The onus is not on Protestants to provide evidence to the contrary, but on Catholics to provide sufficient evidence. It\u2019s not incumbent on me to disprove something for which there\u2019s no good evidence. If you tell me there\u2019s a genie in the bottle, the burden of proof is not on me to prove you wrong. [p. 540]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Plenty of biblical evidence exists for the perpetual virginity of Mary. I recently <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/02\/svendsens-dissertation-on-mary-2-brothers-of-jesus.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">wrote a succinct nine-point summary of it<\/a> (I won\u2019t bother indenting so much material):<\/p>\n<p>1) In comparing Matthew 27:56, Mark 15:40, and John 19:25, we find that James and Joseph (mentioned in Matthew 13:55 with Simon and Jude as Jesus\u2019 \u201cbrothers\u201d) are the sons of Mary, wife of Clopas. This other Mary (Mt 27:61; 28:1) is called the Blessed Virgin Mary\u2019s\u00a0<em>adelphe\u00a0<\/em>in John 19:25. Assuming that there are not two women named \u201cMary\u201d in one family, this usage apparently means \u201ccousin\u201d or more distant relative. Matthew 13:55-56 and Mark 6:3 mention Simon, Jude and \u201csisters\u201d along with James and Joseph, calling all\u00a0<em>adelphoi<\/em>. The most plausible interpretation of all this related data is a use of\u00a0<em>adelphos\u00a0<\/em>as \u201ccousins\u201d (or possibly, step-brothers) rather than \u201csiblings.\u201d We know for sure, from the above information, that James and Joseph were not Jesus\u2019 siblings. . . .<\/p>\n<p>2) Jude is called the Lord\u2019s \u201cbrother\u201d in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3. If this is the same Jude who wrote the epistle bearing that name (as many think), he calls himself \u201ca servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James\u201d (Jude 1:1). Now, suppose for a moment that he\u00a0<em>was\u00a0<\/em>Jesus\u2019 blood brother. In that case, he refrains from referring to himself as the Lord\u2019s own sibling (while we are told that such a phraseology occurs several times in the New Testament, referring to a sibling relationship) and chooses instead to identify himself as\u00a0<em>James<\/em>\u2018 brother. \u00a0This is far too strange and implausible to believe. Moreover, James also refrains from calling himself Jesus\u2019 brother, in his epistle (James 1:1: \u201cservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ\u201d): even though St. Paul calls him \u201cthe Lord\u2019s brother\u201d (Gal 1:19).<\/p>\n<p>3) Commenter Alex Lielbardis brought up this further argument:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Mark 6:4<\/strong>\u00a0And Jesus said to them, \u201cA prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and among his own kin [(\u03c3\u03c5\u03b3\u03b3\u03b5\u03bd\u03ae\u03c2, \u03ad\u03c2 \/\u00a0<em>suggenes<\/em>)], and in his own house.\u201d (cf. Jn 7:5: \u201cFor even his brothers did not believe in him.\u201d)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He added:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The plural Greek word used refers to kinsfolk, relatives, or fellow countrymen. This same word is used by Luke in his account of the Annunciation which in the singular form specifically means a cousin: \u201cAnd behold, your kinswoman [\u03c3\u03c5\u03b3\u03b3\u03b5\u03bd\u03af\u03c2 \/<em>\u00a0syngenis<\/em>] Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren\u201d (Luke 1:36). Thus, Jesus apparently replies with his cousins (relatives or kin) in mind, in response to what was said by those who were offended at him.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The context of this incident was His preaching in His hometown of Nazareth. Both Mark (6:3) and the parallel text in Matthew (13:55-56), in the immediate context mention four \u201cbrothers\u201d of Jesus\u201d and also, unnamed \u201csisters.\u201d Jesus was catching flak from these relatives in His hometown. Both Matthew and Mark record Jesus as saying in response that a \u201cprophet\u201d is not honored \u201cin his own house.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>4) Luke 2:41-51 describes Mary and Joseph taking Jesus to the temple at the age of twelve, for the required observance of Passover. Everyone agrees that He was the first child of Mary, so if there were up to five or more siblings, as some maintain (or even one), why is there no hint of them at all in this account? I recently\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2022\/12\/jesus-at-twelve-in-the-temple-marys-perpetual-virginity.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">wrote in-depth about this<\/a>. If Jesus had brothers or sisters and He was the oldest, then He certainly would have had siblings at 12 years old, when His parents took Him to Jerusalem for the Passover (Luke 2:41-50) \u2014 particularly since Mary was estimated to have been around 16 at His birth, which would make her still only around 28 at this time. We\u2019re to believe that it makes sense that she bore her first child at 16 and then had no more from 16-28, and then more than four after that? That\u2019s not very plausible at all.<\/p>\n<p>5) The Blessed Virgin Mary is committed to the care of the Apostle John by Jesus from the Cross (John 19:26-27). Jesus certainly wouldn\u2019t have done this if He had brothers (all of whom would have been younger than He was).<\/p>\n<p>6) Nowhere does the New Testament state that any of Jesus\u2019 \u201cbrothers\u201d (<i>adelphoi<\/i>) are the children of Jesus\u2019 mother Mary, even when they are referenced together (cf. Mark 3:31 ff.; 6:3 ff.; John 2:12; Acts 1:14). So for example, in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55. Jesus is called \u201cthe son of Mary\u201d and \u201cthe carpenter\u2019s son\u201d and\u00a0<i>only He<\/i>\u00a0is referred to in this way. The others (four \u201cbrothers\u201d named in each passage) are not. It happens again in the book of Acts:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>Acts 1:14\u00a0<\/b>\u00a0All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>See how a distinction is made between Mary as the mother of Jesus and \u201chis brothers,\u201d who are\u00a0<i>not<\/i>\u00a0called Mary\u2019s sons? Nor is she called their mother. These verses do\u00a0<i>not<\/i>\u00a0read in a \u201csiblings\u201d way. Svendsen writes:\u00a0\u201cWe further read that Jesus has \u2018brothers\u2019 and \u2018sisters\u2019 (in texts that place them with his \u2018mother\u2019), from which we infer that these are biological siblings\u201d\u00a0(p. 58), but he doesn\u2019t delve deep enough into the texts, to notice the important distinctions made, as I have above. It looks like he simply sees only what he\u00a0<em>wants<\/em>\u00a0to see.<\/p>\n<p>7) In the New Testament, none of these \u201cbrothers\u201d are\u00a0<em>ever<\/em>\u00a0called Joseph\u2019s children, anywhere, either.<\/p>\n<p>8) Much has been written about the use of\u00a0<em>adelphos<\/em>\u00a0in the NT. Its range of use is\u00a0<em>almost precisely<\/em>\u00a0like how it is used in the works of the first century Jewish historian Josephus (as we would expect, since he was a fellow Israelite and lived in the same period). In\u00a0<em>Antiquities<\/em>,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.gutenberg.org\/files\/2848\/2848-h\/2848-h.htm#link182HCH0002\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book XVIII, ch. 4, sec. 6<\/a>,\u00a0Josephus refers to \u201cPhilip, Herod\u2019s brother\u201d (likely using\u00a0<em>adelphos<\/em>\u00a0there). In\u00a0<em>Wars of the Jews<\/em>,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.gutenberg.org\/files\/2850\/2850-h\/2850-h.htm#linkbook-two\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, ch. 6, sec. 1<\/a>,\u00a0he refers to \u201cArchelaus\u2019s brother Philip.\u201d But we know that\u00a0<em>they were\u00a0<strong>not<\/strong>\u00a0siblings<\/em>\u00a0(sons of the same mother and father). In\u00a0<em>Wars of the Jews<\/em>,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.gutenberg.org\/files\/2850\/2850-h\/2850-h.htm#linkbook-two\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, ch. 7, sec. 4<\/a>,\u00a0Josephus mentions \u201cAlexander, who was the brother of Archelaus, . . . This Alexander was the son of Herod the king . . .\u201d Again, he likely uses\u00a0<em>adelphos<\/em>, but is not referring to literal siblings, since we know that this\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Alexander,_son_of_Herod\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Alexander\u2019<\/a>s mother was\u00a0<a class=\"mw-redirect decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" title=\"Mariamne (second wife of Herod)\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Mariamne_(second_wife_of_Herod)\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mariamne<\/a>.\u00a0Wikipedia\u00a0(<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Philip_the_Tetrarch\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201c<\/a><span class=\"mw-page-title-main\"><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Philip_the_Tetrarch\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Philip the Tetrarch\u201d<\/a>)\u00a0<\/span>informs us that Philip was \u201cson of\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" title=\"Herod the Great\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Herod_the_Great\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Herod the Great<\/a>\u00a0and his fifth wife,\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" title=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cleopatra_of_Jerusalem\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Cleopatra of Jerusalem<\/a>, . . .\u00a0half-brother of\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" title=\"Herod Antipas\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Herod_Antipas\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Herod Antipas<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" title=\"Herod Archelaus\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Herod_Archelaus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Herod Archelaus.\u201d<\/a>\u00a0The mother of the latter two men was\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Malthace\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Malthace<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Now I shall compare Josephus\u2019 use of terms for relatives (excluding the straightforward terms\u00a0<em>mother, father, son, daughter<\/em>), over against that of the NT.\u00a0\u00a0<em>Adelphos<\/em>\u00a0appears in the NT 346 times and\u00a0<em>syngene\u00eds<\/em>\u00a0[\u201ccousin\u201d] only appears twelve times.\u00a0<em>Anepsios<\/em>\u00a0[\u201ccousin\u201d] appears once (Col 4:10). Here is the breakdown of NT terms for relatives (in the RSV):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>brethren 191<br>\nbrother(s) 159<br>\nsister 24<br>\nmother-in-law 5<br>\ndaughter-in-law 3<br>\nfather-in-law 1<br>\ncousin 1<br>\nuncle \/ aunt \/ nephew \/ niece 0<br>\nson-in-law 0<br>\nkin 1<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Out of these 385 instances, 374 of them (or 97%) are either\u00a0<em>brother<\/em>,\u00a0<em>brethren<\/em>, or\u00a0<em>sister<\/em>. The one appearance of\u00a0<em>cousin<\/em>\u00a0is 0.26% of the whole. Likewise, in Josephus (<em>Antiquities<\/em>\u00a0and\u00a0<em>Wars of the Jews<\/em>), out of 1024 terms for relative, 867 (85%) are\u00a0<em>brother<\/em>,\u00a0<em>brethren<\/em>, or\u00a0<em>sister<\/em>. The thirteen appearances of\u00a0<em>cousin<\/em>\u00a0are 1.3% of the whole: remarkably similar usage to the NT, which also uses\u00a0<em>adelphos<\/em>\u00a0for non-siblings.<\/p>\n<p>9) The same strikingly similar usage is found in the Septuagint (LXX): the Greek translation of the Old Testament.\u00a0<em>Adelphos<\/em>\u00a0appears 649 times (99%),\u00a0<em>syngene\u00eds<\/em>\u00a0only appears five times (0.76%), and\u00a0<em>anepsios<\/em>\u00a0appears once (0.15%).<\/p>\n<p>See my related paper, <a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/02\/josephus-brothers-of-jesus-redux-vs-lucas-banzoli.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Josephus &amp; \u201cBrothers of Jesus\u201d Redux (vs. Lucas Banzoli)<\/a> [2-18-23], and many other treatments of the general topic on my <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/mary-blessed-virgin-index-page.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Blessed Virgin Mary web page<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Did Hays (at least in this immediate section) deal with <em>any<\/em> of this considerable amount of biblical argumentation? No, he didn\u2019t (what an incredible surprise). He may not have even been <em>aware<\/em> of any or most of it.<\/p>\n<p>I will not give the dignity of a reply to blasphemous comments about Mary that Hays made on pages 540 and 541.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<p><strong><em>Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,300+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2009\/06\/dave-armstrongs-catholic-apologetics-bookstore-49-books-paperback-e-pub-mobi-nook-book-amazon-kindle-itunes-pdf-rock-bottom-regular-prices-67-savings-for-e-books-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fifty-one books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/11\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2014\/01\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/02\/the-biblical-basis-of-apologetics-defense-of-christianity.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div>\n<p>Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0<em>monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/us\/webapps\/mpp\/sem\/account-selection-signup\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0<strong><em>Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>The Whore of Babylon<\/em>\u00a0(workshop of Lucas Cranach): colorized illustration from Martin Luther\u2019s 1534 translation of the Bible<\/span>\u00a0[public domain \/\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Whore-babylon-luther-bible-1534.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><em>Summary<\/em>: The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. This is one of my many critiques of Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d: a 695-page self-published volume.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Choosing to Pursue Truth; Received Tradition; Carnal Man &amp; the Bible; Venial Sin; Newman No Innovator; Immaculate Conception; Mary\u2019s In Partu Virginity; Catholic Prooftexts = Sola Scriptura?; Bible &amp; Mary\u2019s Perpetual Virginity The late\u00a0Steve Hays (1959-2020) was a Calvinist (and anti-Catholic) apologist, who was very active on his blog, called Triablogue\u00a0(now continued by Jason Engwer). [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":73107,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231],"tags":[2361,17736,17733,17730,17724,2119],"class_list":["post-73959","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-calvinist-anti-catholicism","tag-calvinist-steve-hays","tag-critiques-of-catholicism","tag-hays-catholicism","tag-steve-hays"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Choosing to Pursue Truth; Received Tradition; Carnal Man &amp; the Bible; Venial Sin; Newman No Innovator; Immaculate Conception; Mary&#039;s In Partu The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. This is one of my many critiques of Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d: a 695-page self-published volume.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/06\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-26.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Choosing to Pursue Truth; Received Tradition; Carnal Man &amp; the Bible; Venial Sin; Newman No Innovator; Immaculate Conception; Mary&#039;s In Partu The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. This is one of my many critiques of Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d: a 695-page self-published volume.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/06\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-26.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2023-06-07T15:03:18+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2023\/05\/WhoreOfBabylon2.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"640\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"469\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"21 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/06\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-26.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/06\/reply-to-hays-catholicism-26.html\",\"name\":\"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2023-06-07T15:03:18+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-06-07T15:03:18+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"Choosing to Pursue Truth; Received Tradition; Carnal Man &amp; the Bible; Venial Sin; Newman No Innovator; Immaculate Conception; Mary's In Partu The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26 Reply to Hays\u2019 \u201cCatholicism\u201d #26","description":"Choosing to Pursue Truth; Received Tradition; Carnal Man &amp; the Bible; Venial Sin; Newman No Innovator; Immaculate Conception; Mary's In Partu The late Steve Hays was a Calvinist and anti-Catholic writer and apologist. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/73959","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=73959"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/73959\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/73107"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=73959"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=73959"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=73959"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}