{"id":74112,"date":"2023-06-12T13:02:42","date_gmt":"2023-06-12T17:02:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=74112"},"modified":"2023-06-12T13:02:42","modified_gmt":"2023-06-12T17:02:42","slug":"excesses-in-catholic-mariology-devotion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2023\/06\/excesses-in-catholic-mariology-devotion.html","title":{"rendered":"“Excesses” in Catholic Mariology & Devotion"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Protestants are trained from their mother\u2019s milk to be wary of Catholic \u201cdisplays.\u201d It\u2019s because the Protestant has been taught that only God should be worshiped and adored<\/em>\u00a0(we totally agree) and because of that, no one else should\u00a0be honored\u00a0or venerated<\/em> at all<\/em> (we completely disagree, and so does the Bible, I would contend<\/a>). There are ignorant Catholics (lots of \u2019em!), just as there are ignorant practitioners in any Christian group. One can\u2019t \u201cgo by\u201d them.<\/p>\n

That said, I think Protestant contra-Catholic criticism (especially of the anti-Catholic variety) grossly exaggerates the excesses of Catholic Mariology. The main problem is the false belief that any honor to any human being is automatically idolatry. But the latter means that a person has replaced allegiance to God in their hearts with something or someone else. Catholics aren\u2019t doing that with Mary. We simply think she is the highest of God\u2019s creatures, because she is Jesus\u2019 mother. So that status of \u201chighest creature\u201d looks in many Protestant eyes like raising her above<\/em> God or making her equal<\/em> to Him. That\u2019s the furthest thing from any educated, properly catechized Catholic\u2019s mind.<\/p>\n

There are people who are more righteous than others<\/a>. The Bible teaches this. So, for example, James 5:16 states\u00a0\u201cThe prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects\u201d (RSV). This presupposes<\/em> that some people are more righteous than others. James was using the example of the prophet Elijah, and goes on in 5:17-18: \u201cElijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.\u201d This is NT teaching, too. We\u2019re not all exactly the same, as Protestants tend to think. There are degrees of righteousness, and sin<\/a>, and grace<\/a> (merit<\/a>).<\/p>\n

If that is the case, then certain people can be and should be honored (venerated) more than others. This is where it comes from. So when we get to Mary, we\u2019re talking about the highest creature God ever made: the Mother of God the Son, whom God gave a special grace of being freed from original sin from her conception: not<\/em> because<\/a> it was strictly necessary, but because it was \u201cfitting.\u201d<\/a> And the latter notion is biblical, too, as I recently wrote about. Therefore we greatly venerate and honor her.<\/p>\n

Protestants look at that and too often assume in a knee-jerk fashion that it\u2019s idolatry and blasphemously replacing God with a creature. But it is non-worship honor of one whom God has exalted. It was the angel Gabriel who said to Mary, \u201cHail full of grace\u201d at the Annunciation (yes, that\u2019s what the Greek kecharitomene<\/em>\u00a0means). This means she was without sin, as I argue from Scripture<\/a> (grace being the antithesis of sin). But if a Protestant rejects the possibility of a human being being without sin<\/a>, and being blessed above all others, then he or she will obviously collapse Marian veneration into idolatry and blasphemy, because\u00a0their categories forbid such a notion<\/em>\u00a0from the outset. I\u2019m saying that the\u00a0premise<\/em>\u00a0is wrong.<\/p>\n

I agree that something like the crowning of Mary\u00a0 shouldn\u2019t be done in a mixed Christian group, but why is this gesture thought to be so terrible in the first<\/em> place? I watched the coronation of King Charles III. He was crowned. So was his wife. But we mustn\u2019t crown Mary the mother of Jesus: the holiest creature who ever lived? Why one<\/em> and not the other<\/em>? I think that\u2019s where the inconsistency lies. We don\u2019t say that earthy kings and queens shouldn\u2019t be crowned because it\u2019s \u201cidolatry.\u201d Why not Mary, then? The Bible teaches honor of holy people.<\/p>\n

An entire chapter (Hebrews 11) is about the heroes of the faith. We\u2019re told in the Bible (1 Pet 2:17) to \u201chonor all men\u201d and \u201chonor the emperor\u201d (who was the wicked Nero at the time). But we can\u2019t honor Mary<\/em>? This makes no sense. I don\u2019t think Protestants think it through deeply enough.<\/p>\n

I was informed that a Catholic had a prayer in their bathroom that starts with \u201cDear Jesus, we come to you through your blessed mother Mary\u201d.\u00a0\u00a0This gets back to the idea of asking a holy person to pray for us. The Bible is filled with that sort of thing. I compiled an article about it<\/a>. Protestants will say we can\u2019t ask someone who has died to pray for us, let alone asking them to answer the prayer themselves. Yet Abraham did both, in Jesus\u2019 story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16. The rich man asked him to do something twice, and Abraham refused, but he didn\u2019t say, \u201cwhy are you praying to\u00a0me<\/em>?\u201d Therefore, we can ask a dead person to pray for us<\/a>, according to Jesus Himself.<\/p>\n

The Catholic Church doesn\u2019t command<\/em> any Catholic to pray to Mary, or forbid them to pray directly to God<\/em>. A prayer that states: \u201cDear Jesus, we come to you through your blessed mother Mary\u201d means in the Catholic (and biblical) outlook, \u201cDear Jesus, we know that we can always choose to<\/em>\u00a0come to you through your blessed mother Mary\u00a0or other holy persons<\/em>.\u201d It\u2019s not the\u00a0only\u00a0<\/em>way, but it is a good, effective way to reach God and to receive an answer to prayer, according to the Bible.<\/p>\n

There are also many biblical passages whereby men are the mediators of God\u2019s grace and even salvation<\/a>. So why can\u2019t Mary conceivably be one of those \u201cmini-mediators\u201d too? There is indeed some \u201cMarian excess\u201d among Catholics, but it\u2019s grossly exaggerated because of erroneous premises. Vatican II addressed the problem and made recommendations. Some Catholic individuals<\/em> are mistaken and have fallen into idolatry. Why should that surprise anyone? Are there not a million different excesses in various Protestant teachings and practices, in various denominations (including idolatry and blasphemy)?<\/p>\n

Believe me, I know<\/em>. I was in that world, too, and corrected some of these as a Protestant apologist (see an example from 1982<\/a>). They can always be found. This is why good teaching, catechesis, and apologetics are of the utmost importance. There are 1.3 billion Catholics in the world. Some of them will obviously be ignorant of various doctrines and practices and get them wrong.<\/p>\n

If some practices of Catholics regarding Mary are truly excessive, yes, of course we must point them out, condemn them, and correct those who are doing them. But many (most?) Protestants think that there should be no Marian veneration or intercession, period<\/em>, which goes too far and is unbiblical. It\u2019s throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Vatican II corrected Marian excesses without ditching the doctrines.<\/p>\n

For many more articles on all aspects of Catholic Mariology, see my Mary: The Blessed Virgin web page<\/a>.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

\n
\n

Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,300+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0fifty-one books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n

\n

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>,\u00a0and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n

PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page:\u00a0About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong> Sistine Madonna<\/em>\u00a0(1513-1514), by Raphael (1483-1520)<\/span>\u00a0[public domain \/\u00a0Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Summary<\/em>: I address the charge that Catholic Mariology is rife with unbiblical and idolatrous error and even blasphemy. Is it completely unacceptable and erroneous?<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Protestants are trained from their mother\u2019s milk to be wary of Catholic \u201cdisplays.\u201d It\u2019s because the Protestant has been taught that only God should be worshiped and adored\u00a0(we totally agree) and because of that, no one else should\u00a0be honored\u00a0or venerated at all (we completely disagree, and so does the Bible, I would contend). There are […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":74114,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[45],"tags":[2357,508,716,17776,550,2385],"class_list":["post-74112","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blessed-virgin-mary","tag-blessed-virgin-mary","tag-catholic-mariology","tag-intercession-of-mary","tag-invocation-of-mary","tag-marian-devotion","tag-veneration-of-mary"],"yoast_head":"\n"Excesses" in Catholic Mariology & Devotion"Excesses" in Catholic Mariology & Devotion<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Protestants are trained from their mother's milk to be wary of Catholic "displays." It's because the Protestant has been taught that only God should be I address the charge that Catholic Mariology is rife with unbiblical and idolatrous error and even blasphemy. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"\"Excesses\" in Catholic Mariology & Devotion\"Excesses\" in Catholic Mariology & Devotion","description":"Protestants are trained from their mother's milk to be wary of Catholic \"displays.\" It's because the Protestant has been taught that only God should be I address the charge that Catholic Mariology is rife with unbiblical and idolatrous error and even blasphemy. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/74112","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=74112"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/74112\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/74114"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=74112"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=74112"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=74112"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}