{"id":79380,"date":"2024-01-15T11:18:25","date_gmt":"2024-01-15T15:18:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=79380"},"modified":"2024-01-15T11:31:28","modified_gmt":"2024-01-15T15:31:28","slug":"pope-criticism-ultra-rare-private-saintly","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/01\/pope-criticism-ultra-rare-private-saintly.html","title":{"rendered":"Pope-Criticism: Ultra-Rare, Private, & Saintly"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Reply to Clueless Accusations That I Supposedly Think Popes Should Never be Criticized At All<\/em>, & Make No<\/em> Distinctions Whatsoever Concerning Papal Critics<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

The recent Vatican document, Fiducia Supplicans<\/em> has been the trigger for many thousands of loudmouthed Catholics to engage in constant verbal diarrhea against Pope Francis: the Holy Father, supreme head of the Church, Vicar of Christ, and successor to St. Peter. I have resolved to mostly avoid this entire topic<\/em>, having defended Pope Francis for over ten years, with a book<\/a>, 231 articles<\/a>, and a selection of 329 additional articles<\/a> that defend the pope and seek to counter this quasi-schismatic madness. I need to keep my own sanity if I am to continue my vocation as an apologist. I\u2019ve done my part. But \u2014 heaven help me \u2014 I got drawn in again a few days ago by manifestly absurd criticisms sent my way, and it afforded me an opportunity to clarify my oft-misunderstood views on this topic.<\/p>\n

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To kick the discussion off, this is how St. Paul was deferential even to the Jewish<\/em>\u00a0high priest:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Acts 23:1-5<\/strong> (RSV) And Paul, looking intently at the council, said, \u201cBrethren, I have lived before God in all good conscience up to this day.\u201d [2] And the high priest\u00a0Anani\u2019as commanded those who stood by him to strike him on the mouth. [3] Then Paul said to him, \u201cGod shall strike you, you whitewashed wall! Are you sitting to judge me according to the law, and yet contrary to the law you order me to be struck?\u201d [4] Those who stood by said, \u201cWould you revile God\u2019s high priest?\u201d [5] And Paul said, \u201cI did not know, brethren, that he was the high priest; for it is written, `You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.'\u201d<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Paul told us many times to imitate him. And of course I am following St. Paul\u2019s advice in no longer bothering to read<\/em> relentless pope-bashers:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Romans 16:17<\/strong> I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties<\/em>, in opposition to the doctrine<\/em> which you have been taught; avoid them<\/em>.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n
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1 Corinthians 5:11<\/strong> But rather I wrote to you not to associate<\/em> with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler<\/em>, . . . not even to eat with such a one<\/em>.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
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Titus 3:9-11<\/strong> But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels<\/em> over the law, for they are unprofitable and futile. [10] As for a man who is factious<\/em>, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him<\/em>, [11] knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Once again (not to assume that my critics have actually read<\/em> anything of mine in these matters), I have frequently made the distinctions that I am accused of not<\/em> making. For example:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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\nOn Rebuking Popes & Catholic Obedience to Popes<\/a>\u00a0[12-27-17]<\/span><\/div>\n
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\nDo I Think Popes Can Never be Criticized for Any Reason? Nope. (I Respectfully Criticize the Prudence of Pope Francis\u2019 Repeated Interviews with an Atheist Who Lies About Him [Eugenio Scalfari])<\/a>\u00a0[3-31-18]<\/span>
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Are Pope-Critics Evil? Reply to Karl Keating<\/a>\u00a0[4-13-18]<\/span><\/div>\n
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Pope Francis: Popes Can be\u00a0Respectfully<\/em>\u00a0Criticized<\/a>\u00a0[7-21-21]<\/span><\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Here\u2019s the actual<\/em> record:
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\nI wrote over 23 years ago (in 2000) \u2014 because I was defending Pope St. John Paul II from the trash-talkers back then, too:
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My point is not that a pope can never be rebuked, nor that they could never be \u201cbad\u201d (a ludicrous opinion), but that an instance of rebuking them ought to be quite rare, exercised with the greatest prudence, and preferably by one who has some significant credentials, which is why I mentioned saints. Many make their excoriating judgments of popes as if they had no more importance or gravity than reeling off a laundry or grocery list. . . .<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Yes, one can conceivably question the pope \u2014 especially his actions (we are not ultramontanists), yet I think it must be done only with overwhelming evidence that he is doing something completely contrary to Catholic doctrine and prior practice. It is not something that a non-theologian or non-priest should do nonchalantly and as a matter of course . . .
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\nEven if [critics] are right about some particulars, they ought to express their opinion with the utmost respect and with fear and trembling, grieved that they are \u201ccompelled\u201d to severely reprimand the Vicar of Christ.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
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I wrote again on 1-29-15:<\/div>\n
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My position is that\u00a0popes should be accorded the proper respect of their office and criticized rarely, by the right people, in the right spirit, preferably in private Catholic venues, and for the right (and super-important) reasons.\u00a0Virtually none of those characteristics hold for most of the people moaning about the pope day and night these days.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve lived to see an age where an orthodox Catholic apologist defending the pope (for the right reasons) is regarded as some sort of novelty or alien from another galaxy. Truth is stranger than fiction!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Along the same lines, in November 2016, I opined:<\/p>\n

My main objection today\u00a0is the\u00a0spirit<\/em>\u00a0in which many objections to Pope Francis are made. That has often been my critique through the years of papal criticism: which I have\u00a0always<\/em>\u00a0maintained is quite permissible in and of itself, done in the right way, at the right time, with proper respect, by the right people, in the right venue, privately, and with the right motivation. My position is\u00a0not<\/em>\u00a0one in which popes can\u00a0never<\/em>\u00a0be criticized, but rather, a concern about\u00a0how<\/em>,\u00a0when<\/em>, and\u00a0who<\/em>\u00a0does it: the\u00a0proper<\/em>\u00a0way to do it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n

And on 12-27-17<\/a>, I stated:
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Being classified as an ultramontanist is almost a boilerplate response from critics of a given pope. It\u2019s very common to reply to defenses of a pope or papal authority by making out that one supposedly agrees with absolutely everything he says or does, or that his color of socks or what side of bed he gets out on or his favorite ice cream flavor are magisterial matters.
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\nIt\u2019s untrue in my case, as I will show; this has never been my position, as I\u2019ve explained many times. But if it is erroneously thought that it is, then I can be potentially (or actually) dismissed as a muddled, simplistic irrelevancy, without my arguments being fully engaged. Nice try, but no cigar. . . .<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
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I don\u2019t think it means we can\u00a0never ever<\/em>\u00a0say\u00a0anything<\/em>\u00a0critical, but it\u2019s talking about a spirit and outlook of respect and deference that is now widely being ignored, because people have learned to think in very un-Catholic ways, having (in my opinion) been too influenced by secular culture and theologically liberal and Protestant ways of thinking about authority and submission.<\/p>\n

The sublimity of the office demands that we show respect and [almost always] shut up, even if the pope is wrong. If there are serious questions, bishops and theologians and canon lawyers (as I\u2019ve always said) ought to discuss it privately, not publicly.<\/p>\n

But today it seems that biblical and historic Catholic models alike are ignored, or not known in the first place.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n

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In my dialogue with Karl Keating in April 2018 (see above), I wrote:<\/div>\n
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I make distinctions among papal critics. I wrote: \u201cToday we are blessed with both pope bashers (the usual suspect reactionaries and also non-reactionaries like Phil Lawler and Ross Douthat), and non-reactionary \u201cpapal nitpickers.\u201d That<\/em>\u00a0is a distinction: the very one that you are calling for (I\u2019d also say that\u00a0you<\/em>\u00a0are in the nitpicker category). I went on in the article to distinguish the categories of nitpickers and bashers several times. No one could possibly miss my meaning or intent.<\/p>\n

If I am asked whether [objective, not necessarily subjective] sin is playing a prominent\u00a0role<\/em>\u00a0in the papal criticism going on today, I say yes, absolutely. It doesnot<\/em> follow that I think every papal critic is a bad man. That\u2019s a completely different proposition. I\u2019m saying that sin is bad and will manifest itself. The main sin going on now with regard to Pope Francis is evil-speaking: a thing very often condemned in no uncertain terms in Holy Scripture. . . .<\/p>\n

Phil Lawler said that the pope is deliberately seeking to overthrow Catholic traditions and teachings. That\u2019s the central thesis of his book, expressed in the Introduction.\u00a0That<\/em> is serious sin, too. But I have not said that he is an evil, wicked man. He is a sinner like all of us, who is in error. . . .<\/p>\n

First you said (going back a few months) that I was calling everyone a \u201creactionary\u201d (untrue), then, that I call everyone a \u201cbasher\u201d (untrue). Now you are making out that I think all the critics of the pope are \u201cbad men.\u201d That is absolutely untrue. Before that you repeatedly claimed that I was writing a book review of a book I never read (false). You have claimed that I disallow all criticism of popes whatever (which has\u00a0never<\/em> been true; and I\u2019ve had articles online for over twenty years that prove it). . . .<\/p>\n

[then I commented on our exchange]<\/p>\n

I have remained exactly the same as I have always been. I defended the\u00a0last two popes<\/em>\u00a0and I defend\u00a0this<\/em>\u00a0one, as an apologist. The ones who have undergone a sea change (if<\/em> anyone has) are Karl, Lawler, Douthat, Raymond Arroyo, and some other apologists (whom I will not name, in charity): all of whom used to defend popes, and even this pope, and now have chosen to become critics instead.<\/p>\n

Right or wrong,\u00a0that<\/em> is a big change. But I have undergone no such change, either in approach or in how I view my opponents (as charitably as I can, though of course, not perfectly). . . .<\/p>\n

There are relatively moderate, sensible, charitable critics like Edward Pentin and John Allen. And Karl Keating, too. Karl has arguably been harder on me than he has been against Pope Francis.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Related Reading<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Ed Feser\u2019s \u201cRespectful and Reserved Criticism\u201d of the Holy Father (?)<\/a> [Catholic36<\/em>5, 11-29-23]<\/span><\/p>\n

Pedro Gabriel\u2019s Masterful Heresy Disguised As Tradition<\/em><\/a> [12-18-23]<\/span><\/p>\n

So-Called \u201cConservative\u201d Catholic Media and \u201cConservative\u201d American Catholicism Have Gone to Hell<\/a> (Big Pulpit<\/em>\u00a0and Fiducia Supplicans<\/em>) [Facebook, 12-23-23]<\/span><\/p>\n

Bible on the Disgraceful Attitude & Behavior of So Many Pope-Bashers<\/a> [Facebook, 12-24-23]<\/span><\/p>\n

Bible on Deference to Popes & Leaders, & Disobedience<\/a> [12-26-23]<\/span><\/p>\n

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Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,500+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0fifty-five books<\/a>\u00a0have helped you (by God\u2019s grace) to decide to\u00a0become Catholic<\/a>\u00a0or to\u00a0return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n

PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. Here\u2019s also\u00a0a second page to get to PayPal<\/a>. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing (including\u00a0Zelle<\/a>), see my page:\u00a0About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n

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Photo credit:<\/span> <\/strong>lukasbieri<\/a> (11-8-17)<\/span> [Pixabay<\/a> \/ Pixabay Content Licens<\/a>e]<\/p>\n

Summary<\/em>: If I had a dime for every time I\u2019ve been falsely accused of broad-brushing papal critics or of supposedly holding a \u201cno papal criticism whatsoever\u201d view, I\u2019d be rich.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Reply to Clueless Accusations That I Supposedly Think Popes Should Never be Criticized At All, & Make No Distinctions Whatsoever Concerning Papal Critics The recent Vatican document, Fiducia Supplicans has been the trigger for many thousands of loudmouthed Catholics to engage in constant verbal diarrhea against Pope Francis: the Holy Father, supreme head of the […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":79383,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[138],"tags":[18369,18363,5320,156,18372,18366],"class_list":["post-79380","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-papacy-infallibility","tag-honor-all-men","tag-anti-pope-rhetoric","tag-pope-bashers","tag-pope-francis","tag-pope-criticism","tag-slanderers"],"yoast_head":"\nPope-Criticism: Ultra-Rare, Private, & Saintly Pope-Criticism: Ultra-Rare, Private, & 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1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/79380","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=79380"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/79380\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/79383"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=79380"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=79380"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=79380"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}