{"id":80984,"date":"2024-02-29T17:10:50","date_gmt":"2024-02-29T21:10:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=80984"},"modified":"2024-03-05T13:23:44","modified_gmt":"2024-03-05T17:23:44","slug":"st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html","title":{"rendered":"St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper)"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose\u2019s and St. Augustine\u2019s Views\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2024\/02\/Ambrose-scaled.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-81005\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2024\/02\/Ambrose-300x223.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"223\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.jordanbcooper.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper<\/a>\u00a0is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Executive Director of the popular\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/SemperReformanda1517\/about\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Just &amp; Sinner<\/em>\u00a0<\/a>YouTube channel, and the President of the American Lutheran Theological Seminary (which holds to a\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.taalc.org\/what-is-our-identity\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">doctrinally traditional Lutheranism<\/a>, similar to the Lutheran Church \u2013 Missouri Synod). He has authored\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.jordanbcooper.com\/publications.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">several books<\/a>, as well as\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.jordanbcooper.com\/publications.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">theological articles<\/a>\u00a0in a variety of publications. All my Bible citations are from RSV, unless otherwise indicated. Jordan\u2019s words will be in<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u00a0blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">This is my 5th reply to Jordan (many more to come, because I want to interact with the best, most informed Protestant opponents). All of these respectful critiques can be found in the \u201cReplies to Lutheran Theologian \/ Apologist Jordan Cooper\u201d section on the top of my <a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2011\/10\/lutheranism-catholic-critique-index.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Lutheranism web page<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>See Part One: <\/strong><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/faith-alone-in-the-early-church-fathers-vs-jordan-cooper.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Faith Alone in the Early Church Fathers? (vs. Jordan Cooper) \u2014 Includes Clement of Rome (d. c. 101) &amp; Polycarp (d. 155) vs. Faith Alone<\/a>\u00a0[2-28-24]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p>This is a response to Jordan\u2019s YouTube video, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=CweUNGCqa2E\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cSola Fide in the Church Fathers Part 2: Ambrose (A Classic J&amp;S Episode)\u201d<\/a> (2-24-22). Originally (I assume) this talk was published around 3-27-19.<\/p>\n<p>0:35 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">On the previous program I discussed <em>sola fide<\/em> in the Church fathers, basically trying to interact with the common Roman Catholic\u00a0argument that <em>sola fide<\/em> is a theological novum, so the notion of justification by faith alone . . . it\u2019s a common Roman Catholic claim that . . .\u00a0 it shows up later in history, and you can\u2019t find it in the Church fathers at all. [They say that] Luther basically invents this brand new idea. This especially shows up in a lot of popular Roman Catholic polemics online, and I\u2019ve made the claim that that\u2019s simply not the case and that we can find instances of<em> sola fide<\/em> or various Protestant aspects of justification in the Church fathers.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>As I noted last time, this claim about the absence profound of <em>sola fide<\/em> is by no means confined to <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cRoman Catholic polemicists.\u201d<\/span> In my previous critique I cited three well-known Protestant scholars, who all expressed basically the same thing (and they can\u2019t be accused of Catholic bias). Alister McGrath, author of <span class=\"a-size-medium a-color-base a-text-normal\">\u00a0<\/span><span id=\"productTitle\" class=\"a-size-extra-large celwidget\" data-csa-c-id=\"bppogb-worcp0-5edpfz-y4uldw\"><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Iustitia-Dei-Christian-Doctrine-Justification\/dp\/1108459994\/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Iustitia Dei: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification<\/em><\/a> (1986; 4th ed., 2020) and similar books such as<\/span>\u00a0<span class=\"a-size-extra-large celwidget\" data-csa-c-id=\"sntwfu-ugxm9g-ha0wvf-b9wjco\" data-cel-widget=\"productTitle\"><a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Historical-Theology-Introduction-History-Christian\/dp\/1119870348\/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Historical Theology: An Introduction to the History of Christian Thought<\/em><\/a> (3rd ed., 2022) and <\/span><em><a class=\"a-link-normal s-underline-text s-underline-link-text s-link-style a-text-normal decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Nature-Christian-Doctrine-Development-Function-ebook\/dp\/B0CSKR8GF9\/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1SZK0NAZEGJM0&amp;dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9sbJjhXe3FyP_-q5eksz4zDsOzJvYCrCn5huedsfQl1kEVxN4N7eO3R4LNwvNrMOAQszbaHhVJdd0egmKWvIOJZSDTvnvv3DGvk-eEdRddrbnRYj8R6syjwPx2MPCUgqpHpeVBmUTFGbYVnEyfAfkafH88atMK9WbCrcNKmwGmeESJC1efXVUjydUK0j1qvs4EQEALEG3-aT65ko33oTT4j2PJM6eswtcmoo0d-t-eE.crY-k5JqBIcf_DnovUgOkXyi2_7MOiE24NgNPNvUAeI&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;keywords=alister+McGrath&amp;qid=1709096059&amp;s=digital-text&amp;sprefix=alister+mcgrath%2Cdigital-text%2C128&amp;sr=1-5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"a-size-medium a-color-base a-text-normal\">The Nature of Christian Doctrine: Its Origins, Development, and Function<\/span><\/a><\/em><span class=\"a-size-medium a-color-base a-text-normal\"> (2024), stated that <em>sola fide<\/em>, as newly formulated \u2014 not by Luther but by his successor, Philip Melanchthon \u2013, was \u201ca <em>complete break<\/em> with the teaching of the church up to that point.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"a-size-medium a-color-base a-text-normal\">That\u2019s his informed scholarly opinion. He knows far more than I ever will about the subject. I\u2019m simply repeating and agreeing with his judgment, based on his status and everything I\u2019ve seen myself along these lines, over 33 years of Catholic apologetics research. He <em>agrees<\/em> with the break, as a good Protestant, but he doesn\u2019t try to deny that it <em>was<\/em>, historically speaking, a <em>break<\/em>. <em>He<\/em> was the one, incidentally, who \u2014 three times \u2014 called <em>sola fide<\/em> a \u201ctheological novum\u201d (in the <a href=\"https:\/\/books.google.com\/books?id=Grf9-seFcQMC&amp;newbks=1&amp;newbks_redir=0&amp;pg=PR3&amp;dq=Iustitia+Dei:+A+History+of+the+Christian+Doctrine+of+Justification&amp;source=gbs_selected_pages&amp;cad=1#v=onepage&amp;q=Iustitia%20Dei%3A%20A%20History%20of%20the%20Christian%20Doctrine%20of%20Justification&amp;f=false\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">2nd edition of <em>Iustitia Dei<\/em><\/a> in 1998, <a href=\"https:\/\/books.google.com\/books?id=Grf9-seFcQMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=Iustitia+Dei:+A+History+of+the+Christian+Doctrine+of+Justification&amp;hl=en&amp;newbks=1&amp;newbks_redir=0&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=2ahUKEwi3m6aeq8-EAxWVjYkEHY2nA0wQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=snippet&amp;q=theological%20novum&amp;f=false\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">pp. 180, 184, 187<\/a>)\u00a0 <\/span>I also cited Philip Schaff, author of the multi-volume <em>History of the Christian Church<\/em> and editor of the famous 38-volume set of the Church fathers (that I regularly cite from, since <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">it is online now<\/a>).<\/p>\n<p>I almost bought that set in hardcover so many times over the last 25 years! Schaff stated that \u201cIf any one expects to find in this period [100-325], or in any of the church fathers, Augustin himself not excepted, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone, . . . he will be greatly disappointed.\u201d Jordan Cooper disagrees with these three scholars (Norman Geisler was the third) as to the history. I don\u2019t think he proved at all that Clement of Rome or Polycarp believed in <em>sola fide<\/em>, in his<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=tkDAU1LChX8\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> previous attempt<\/a> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/faith-alone-in-the-early-church-fathers-vs-jordan-cooper.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">see my reply<\/a>), and we will now examine his argument that St. Ambrose was supposedly a good \u201cproto-Protestant\u201d in soteriological matters too.<\/p>\n<p>3:21 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">It\u2019s not good to just take isolated statements of fathers apart from their whole body of work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I heartily agree! I just as strongly disagree that supposedly only Catholic and Orthodox ever do this. Protestant polemicists do quite a bit too. I know; I\u2019ve repeatedly interacted online with these sorts of effort since 1997, and one can read all those exchanges on my extensive <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2007\/03\/fathers-of-the-church-index-page.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Fathers of the Church web page<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>7:56 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">The first of those\u00a0fathers that I want to look at is St. Ambrose, and I just want to go through and examine some of the quotes that you find in his writings.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m delighted to join him on this journey. Jordan agrees with me that we need to look at an author\u2019s entire corpus, or at least as many books as we can access (I have limited resources to buy rare books with; so thank the Lord for the thousands of online books!).<\/p>\n<p>8:26 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Ambrose is actually cited in the Augsburg Confession as an early testament to this notion of justification by faith alone . . . I<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">think that Ambrose in the vast scope of his writings clearly at least in some places teaches something very much like that.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Interesting.<\/p>\n<p>9:25 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">In his treatise on <em>Jacob and the Happy Life<\/em> he says \u201cdon\u2019t you know that the guilt of Adam and Eve sold you into servitude? Don\u2019t you know that Christ did not buy you but bought you back?\u201d Those kinds of statements are all over the place, that . . . Adam\u2019s guilt actually brings us into slavery and brings us death. There is an emphasis on guilt especially coming from Adam . . . <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">For a fuller quotation of this work, <i>On Jacob and the Happy Life,<\/i> see Jordan\u2019s article, <\/span><\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/justandsinner\/st-ambrose-on-law-and-gospel\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cSt. Ambrose On Law And Gospel\u201d<\/a> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">(<em>Just and Sinner<\/em>, 6-3-14).<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The Council of Trent stated in its <a href=\"https:\/\/www.papalencyclicals.net\/councils\/trent\/fifth-session.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Decree Concerning Original Sin<\/em><\/a> in its Session 5 on June 17, 1546, four months after Luther\u2019s death, in section 2, that \u201cthis sin of Adam\u201d was \u201ctaken away\u201d by \u201cthe merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath reconciled us to God in his own blood, made unto us justice, sanctification, and redemption\u201d and that\u00a0 this was \u201capplied, both to adults and to infants, by the sacrament of baptism.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So why does Jordan bring up this particular thing in the context of discussing <em>sola fide<\/em>? It\u2019s because Lutherans and the early Protestants generally, erroneously believed that concupiscence (<em>desire<\/em> to or tendency towards sin) was <em>itself<\/em> a sin and a remnant of the guilt that we inherited from Adam. Trent condemned this opinion in section 5 of the same decree:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>If any one denies, that, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is conferred in baptism, the guilt of original sin is remitted; or even asserts that the whole of that which has the true and proper nature of sin is not taken away; but says that it is only raised, or not imputed; let him be anathema. For, in those who are born again, there is nothing that God hates; because, There is no condemnation to those who are truly buried together with Christ by baptism into death; who walk not according to the flesh, but, putting off the old man, and putting on the new who is created according to God, are made innocent, immaculate, pure, harmless, and beloved of God, heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ; so that there is nothing whatever to retard their entrance into heaven. . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Jordan provides an extended argument from a treatise by Ambrose that I can\u2019t access, in which the Church father asserts that concupiscence is itself sin. Jordan then insinuates that Ambrose held to one tenet of the many involved in the \u201cReformation\u201d belief in <em>sola fide<\/em> (more to do with the nature and results of original sin than with justification per se). <em>If<\/em> he is correct in his assessment (but maybe he <em>isn\u2019t<\/em>; see more on this below), then Catholics would say that Ambrose got this teaching <em>wrong<\/em>. The Catholic Church followed St. Augustine in this respect:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Chapter 25 [XXIII.]\u2014 Concupiscence in the Regenerate Without Consent is Not Sin; In What Sense Concupiscence is Called Sin.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Now this concupiscence, this law of\u00a0sin\u00a0which dwells in our members, to which the law of righteousness forbids allegiance, saying in the words of the apostle,\u00a0<q>Let not\u00a0sin, therefore, reign in your mortal body, that you should\u00a0obey\u00a0it in the\u00a0lusts\u00a0thereof; neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto\u00a0sin:<\/q>\u00a0<span id=\"note152148\" class=\"stiki\">Romans\u00a06:12-13<\/span>\u00a0\u2014 this concupiscence, I say, which is cleansed only by the sacrament of regeneration, does undoubtedly, by means of natural birth, pass on the bond of\u00a0sin\u00a0to a man\u2019s posterity, unless they are themselves loosed from it by regeneration. In the case, however, of the regenerate, concupiscence is not itself\u00a0sin\u00a0any longer, whenever they do not consent to it for illicit works, and when the members are not applied by the presiding mind to perpetrate such\u00a0deeds. So that, if what is enjoined in one passage,\u00a0<q>You shall not\u00a0covet,<\/q>\u00a0is not kept, that at any rate is observed which is commanded in another place,\u00a0<q>You shall not go after your concupiscences.<\/q> [<span id=\"note152150\" class=\"stiki\">Sirach 18:30]<\/span>\u00a0Inasmuch, however, as by a certain manner of speech it is called\u00a0sin, since it arose from\u00a0sin, and, when it has the upper hand, produces\u00a0sin, the guilt of it prevails in the natural man; but this guilt, by Christ\u2019s\u00a0grace\u00a0through the remission of all\u00a0sins, is not suffered to prevail in the regenerate man, if he does not yield\u00a0obedience\u00a0to it whenever it urges him to the commission of\u00a0evil. As arising from\u00a0sin, it is, I say, called\u00a0sin, although in the regenerate it is not actually\u00a0sin; and it has this designation applied to it, just as speech which the tongue produces is itself called\u00a0<q>\u00a0<em>tongue<\/em>;<\/q>\u00a0and just as the word\u00a0<q>\u00a0<em>hand<\/em><\/q>\u00a0is used in the sense of writing, which the hand produces. In the same way concupiscence is called\u00a0sin, as producing\u00a0sin\u00a0when it conquers the will: so to cold and frost the epithet\u00a0<q>\u00a0<em>sluggish<\/em><\/q> is given; not as arising from, but as productive of, sluggishness; benumbing us, in fact. (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/15071.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>On Marriage and Concupiscence<\/em><\/a>, Book I, ch. 25)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He states again in chapter 27: \u201ccarnal concupiscence . . . is no longer accounted sin in the regenerate . . .\u201d And again in chapter 28: \u201cCarnal concupiscence is remitted, indeed, in\u00a0baptism; not so that it is put out of\u00a0existence, but so that it is not to be imputed for\u00a0sin.\u201d And in chapter 29: \u201cIn the case, then, of those\u00a0persons\u00a0who are born again in\u00a0Christ, when they receive an entire remission of all their\u00a0sins, it is of course necessary that the guilt also of the still indwelling concupiscence should be remitted, in order that (as I said) it should not be imputed to them for\u00a0sin.\u201d Then he provides a thoroughly Catholic interpretation of Romans 7 and 8:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Chapter 36.\u2014 Even Now While We Still Have Concupiscence We May Be Safe in Christ.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But the apostle pursues the subject, and says,\u00a0<q>So then with the mind I myself serve the law of\u00a0God, but with the flesh the law of\u00a0sin;<\/q> [<span id=\"note152181\" class=\"stiki\">Romans 7:25]<\/span>\u00a0which must be thus understood:\u00a0<q>With my mind I serve the law of\u00a0God,<\/q>\u00a0by refusing my consent to the law of\u00a0sin;\u00a0<q>with my flesh, however,<\/q>\u00a0I serve\u00a0<q>the law of\u00a0sin,<\/q>\u00a0by having the desires of\u00a0sin, from which I am not yet entirely freed, although I yield them no assent. Then let us observe carefully what he has said after all the above:\u00a0<q>There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in\u00a0Christ Jesus.<\/q> [<span id=\"note152182\" class=\"stiki\">Romans 8:1]<\/span>\u00a0Even\u00a0<em>now<\/em>, says he, when the law in my members keeps up its warfare against the law of my\u00a0mind, and retains in captivity somewhat in the body of this death, there is no condemnation to them which are in\u00a0Christ Jesus. And listen why:\u00a0<q>For the law of the spirit of life in\u00a0Christ Jesus,<\/q>\u00a0says he,\u00a0<q>has made me free from the law of\u00a0sin\u00a0and death.<\/q> [<span id=\"note152183\" class=\"stiki\">Romans 8:2]<\/span>\u00a0How made me free, except by abolishing its sentence of guilt by the remission of all my\u00a0sins; so that, though it still remains, only daily lessening more and more, it is nevertheless not imputed to me as\u00a0sin?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><em>If<\/em> Jordan\u2019s take of St. Ambrose\u2019s view is correct, Lutheranism followed his rather than St. Augustine\u2019s view with regard to the nature of concupiscence). In any event, this is not <em>all<\/em> that is involved in the discussion of \u201cfaith alone.\u201d It\u2019s only indirectly or partially related, so that I don\u2019t think it\u2019s accurate to say that \u201cSt. Ambrose held to justification by faith alone\u201d on the basis of this single (suggested) consideration. One\u2019s opinion on the nature of concupiscence simply isn\u2019t the <em>equivalent<\/em> of \u201cjustification by faith alone.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But did Ambrose really <em>hold<\/em> this view (never forsaking it)? Anglican patristic scholar J. N. D. Kelly suggests that he either changed his mind or contradicted himself, as to the presence of guilt from original sin after baptism. Kelly writes:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The second of Ambrose\u2019s texts cited above [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34032.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>On the Death of Satyrus<\/em>, Book II, 6<\/a>] suggests that the race is infected with Adam\u2019s actual guilt. His more general doctrine, however, is that, while the corrupting force of sin is transmitted, the guilt attaches to Adam himself, not to us. . . . But our personal (<em>propria<\/em>) sins are to be contrasted with those we inherit (<em>haereditaria<\/em>); baptism removes the former, but the rite of washing of feet the latter. (<em>Early Christian Doctrines<\/em>, San Francisco: Harper, revised edition of 1978, 354-355)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The (perhaps surprising) foot-washing element was expressed by Ambrose in his treatise,\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/3405.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>On the Mysteries<\/em><\/a><\/span> (ch. 6, 32):<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Peter was clean, but he must wash his feet, for he had\u00a0sin\u00a0by succession from the first man, when the serpent overthrew him and persuaded him to\u00a0sin. His feet were therefore washed, that hereditary\u00a0sins\u00a0might be done away, for our own\u00a0sins\u00a0are remitted through\u00a0baptism.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Kelly continues:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This hereditary sin, he argues elsewhere [<em>Enarr. in ps<\/em>. 48. 9], is a wound which makes us stumble, but need cause us no anxiety at the day of judgment; we shall only be punished then for our personal sins. . . . It is clear that he envisages the inherited corruption as a congenital propensity to sin (the phrase he uses is <em>lubricum delinquendi<\/em>) rather than as a positive guilt. (<em>Ibid<\/em>., 355)<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">And this is identical to Catholic teaching on concupiscence. In Jordan\u2019s citation of Ambrose\u2019s book, <\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><i>On Jacob and the Happy Life<\/i>, in his <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/justandsinner\/st-ambrose-on-law-and-gospel\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">related article<\/a>, he cites him as stating, \u201cI became aware that concupiscence was sin,\u201d in the midst of an apparent extended citation of St. Paul in Romans 7. He cites it again at 15:35 in his video. As far as I can tell, Ambrose might have been citing or reflecting Romans 7:8, which in KJV reads, \u201cBut sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of <em>concupiscence<\/em>. For without the law sin was dead.\u201d Jordan said:<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>16:05 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">He says even the desire for sin is itself sin, and this is his interpretation of a passage like Romans 7, where Paul speaks about his understanding his knowledge of sin and what sin is. . . . at the time of the Reformation, Martin Luther claimed concupiscence was sin. The Roman church said no, the desire for sin is not itself sin; it\u2019s only the actual act that flows out of that, that is willing, that is sin, and Martin Luther had a much broader understanding of what constitutes sin and the sin nature than Rome did. . . . there are\u00a0a lot of hints here that Ambrose would take the position that Luther does, that even the desire for sin itself is sin.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The word <em>concupiscence<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/quod.lib.umich.edu\/cgi\/k\/kjv\/kjv-idx?type=simple&amp;format=Long&amp;q1=concupiscence&amp;restrict=New+Testament&amp;size=First+100\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u00a0appears three times<\/a> in the NT in the KJV. It doesn\u2019t appear at all in the RSV New Testament, which translates Romans 7:8 as \u201cBut sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, wrought in me all kinds of <em>covetousness<\/em>. Apart from the law sin lies dead.\u201d The Greek word is <em>epithumia<\/em> (<a href=\"https:\/\/biblehub.com\/greek\/1939.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Strong\u2019s word #1939<\/a>: see its use and translation in English Bibles). But <\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Jordan himself also wrote about St. Ambrose:<\/span> <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201ca lot of his interpretations are a little strange and he isn\u2019t always consistent or on track with what the [biblical] text actually says; he often goes on tangents about whatever he\u00a0really feels like teaching.\u201d<\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">(13:02). Maybe so in the above instance . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">If St. Ambrose denied what is the Catholic teaching on concupiscence, expressed by St. Augustine and the Council of Trent, he only did so in some but not all of his writing, and\/or contradicted himself, or else thought twice about his original position and (from a Catholic perspective) corrected it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">On <a href=\"https:\/\/www.fourthcentury.com\/writings-of-ambrose-in-chronological-order\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">a web page<\/a> from the Lutheran site, <em>Fourth Century Christianity<\/em>, that provides the \u201capproximate chronological order\u201d of Ambrose\u2019s writings, we find that <i>On Jacob and the Happy Life<\/i>, was written in 386-388. <em>On the Death of Satyrus<\/em> dates from 379. <em>On the Mysteries<\/em> is from c. 387. <em>Explanations of Twelve Psalms of David<\/em>, cited by Kelly, where Ambrose expresses Catholic views, is the last dated work on this list; described as \u201cLater career to death (unfinished).\u201d So it looks like Ambrose held a more \u201cproto-Protestant\u201d view earlier on (379), then perhaps wavered or was unsure (386-388), and eventually settled on the Catholic view (by the time of his death in 397). The position Kelly describes is the one he held at the end of his life. This is what we can learn by examining the matter more closely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Jordan continues on, up to the 36 minute mark, talking about this one work, <i>On Jacob and the Happy Life<\/i>, which doesn\u2019t appear to be online, so I can\u2019t analyze contextual elements or the entire work. Then he moves on to a <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201ctreatise on Joseph\u201d<\/span> (36:12) which is also \u2014 far as I can tell \u2014\u00a0 unavailable online. And he discusses matters concerning our redemption and justification through Christ\u2019s death on the cross, which likely are no different from what Catholics believe (though many Lutherans wrongly<em> think<\/em> that we are different), and only indirectly related, at best, to the topic of justification by faith alone.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The latter concept primarily has to do with the issue of the relation of faith and works, and whether sanctification is a fundamentally different category from justification: under which non-salvific works are categorized (in a way that the Bible never does). I waited for Jordan to get to those central disputes, as I went through his tape, but it turns out that he never did.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>38:48 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Saint Ambrose has a stronger view of original sin than a lot of the other church\u00a0fathers do . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Or maybe it turned out that by the end of his life he <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>, which was what my citation of J. N. D. Kelly was related to. It looks to me that St. Ambrose, in the final analysis, did <em>not<\/em> hold to total depravity or to the notion of a \u201csin nature.\u201d So Kelly says about his fully developed view (see above):<\/span> \u201c<span style=\"color: #000000;\">It is clear that he envisages the inherited corruption as a congenital propensity to sin.\u201d That\u2019s what Catholics say: concupiscence.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Then he goes onto a discussion of Eastern Orthodoxy. He never even discusses the central question of faith and works, in a video entitled, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=CweUNGCqa2E\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cSola Fide in the Church Fathers Part 2: Ambrose.\u201d<\/a> I think it\u2019s a misnomer! He talked only about original sin and concupiscence, from basically just one work, and even then, arguably proved little or nothing, even about <em>that<\/em> specific topic, in light\u00a0 of Kelly\u2019s conclusions on the general matter. Jordan virtually admitted this himself:<\/p>\n<p>41:32 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Oh my gosh, I didn\u2019t get through anything that I wanted to. I went through one book of Ambrose and just grabbed quotes. I know I\u2019m going really slow through this, but maybe this is what we need to do to show that we can do more than just quote mining\u00a0from various books.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>What he derisively calls merely <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cquote mining\u201d<\/span> is in fact what is <em>necessary<\/em> to do: locate relevant quotations from a father in order to determine his overall teaching on a given theological matter. This is precisely what we do in systematic theology, pertaining to Bible quotes. We collect relevant ones on a topic (say, original sin) and go from there, to determine what the Bible teaches about it. The more context the better (I\u2019m all for that). Jordan is concerned about context, as he should be. I am, too, having seen what my Protestant debate opponents have too often done with context, regarding both the Bible and the fathers. But Jordan insinuates that Catholics (especially popular so-called \u201cpolemicists\u201d like me) have a strong tendency to collect patristic quotes that are highly selective and out-of-context, etc. Some do, no doubt, and some don\u2019t. Like most things, it\u2019s a mixed bag and we can only examine what each individual writer does.<\/p>\n<p>41:48 <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I do want to say for someone who\u2019s listening to this and is Roman Catholic, I know the immediate response, especially for someone who has the volume is that, well, Ambrose also . . .\u00a0 says\u00a0some things that may not appear as Lutheran or Protestant as the statements you read and that\u2019s true . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Wouldn\u2019t it be only fair and thorough to examine <em>those as well<\/em>, rather than <em>only<\/em> the \u201cLutheran\u201d-sounding ones? I have dealt with these highly selective citations in depth in this reply. Jordan needs to do the same with the more \u201cCatholic\u201d statements of Ambrose. But he winds up \u2014 nothing personal! \u2014 doing largely the same thing that he claims here and in other videos, that Catholics and Orthodox do: pick out <em>only<\/em> portions from the fathers or one father that seem to support their case and ignore ones that <em>don\u2019t<\/em> appear to do so.<\/p>\n<p>St. Ambrose thinks that works indeed play a role in determining whether we are saved or not:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The deserts of each one of us are suspended in the balance, which a little weight either of good works or of degenerate conduct sways this way or that; if the evil preponderate, woe is me! if the good, pardon is at hand. For no man is free from sin; but where good preponderates, the evil flies up, is overshadowed, and covered. Wherefore in the Day of judgement <em>our works will either succour us, or will sink us into the deep, weighed down as with a millstone<\/em>. . . . Wherefore exhort the people of God to trust rather in the Lord, to abound in the riches of simplicity, wherein they may walk without snare and without hindrance. (Letter II: To Constantius, a Bishop; from <em>The Letters of S. Ambrose<\/em>, Oxford: 1881; my italics)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This entirely lines up with biblical accounts of the Day of Judgment. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/10\/final-judgment-works-not-faith-50-passages.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">I\u2019ve found fifty biblical passages<\/a>, <strong><em>all<\/em><\/strong> of which make works \u2014 not\u00a0 antithetical to faith \u2014 extremely important as to salvation (only one mentioned faith alongside works). This is clearly contrary to justification by faith alone, in which we stand before God when being judged in the end and can or will say, \u201call my sins were covered by Christ\u2019s imputed justification, so I\u2019m saved; works have <em>nothing<\/em> to do with it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But Ambrose, who had a very different outlook, highlights works, works, works at the judgment. <em>Why<\/em>? It\u2019s because it\u2019s entirely <em>biblical<\/em>, especially regarding the Last Judgment, as I showed. Ambrose simply mirrors an overwhelming teaching of Holy Scripture. He makes the same point in an even more direct and undeniable way elsewhere (that couldn\u2019t be <em>more<\/em> contrary to <em>faith alone<\/em> than it is):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>If thou clothe the naked, thou clothest thyself with righteousness; if thou bring the stranger under thy roof, if thou support the needy, <em>he procures for thee the friendship of the saints and eternal habitations<\/em>. That is no small recompense. <em>Thou sowest earthly things and<\/em> <em>receivest heavenly<\/em>. . . . Clearly blessed is he from whose house a poor man has never gone with empty hand. Nor again is any one more blessed than he who is sensible of the needs of the poor, and the hardships of the weak and helpless. <em>In the day of judgment he will receive salvation from the Lord<\/em>, Whom he will have as his debtor for the mercy he has shown. (<em>On the Duties of the Clergy<\/em>,<a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34011.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> Book I, 11, 39<\/a>; my italics)<\/p>\n<p>But the sacred Scriptures say that <em>eternal life<\/em> <em>rests on<\/em> a knowledge of divine things and on <em>the fruit of good works<\/em>. The Gospel bears witness to both these statements. For the Lord Jesus spoke thus of\u00a0knowledge:\u00a0<q>This is\u00a0eternal\u00a0life, to\u00a0know\u00a0You, the only\u00a0true\u00a0God, and\u00a0Jesus Christ\u00a0Whom You have sent.<\/q> [<span id=\"note340380\" class=\"stiki\">John 17:3]<\/span>\u00a0<em>About works<\/em> He gives this answer:\u00a0<q>Every one that has forsaken house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My Name\u2019s sake, shall receive an hundred-fold, and <em>shall inherit everlasting life<\/em>.<\/q> [<span id=\"note340381\" class=\"stiki\">Matthew 19:29] <\/span><\/p>\n<p>He has further also in the same psalm stated of <em>good works<\/em>, that they <em>gain for an upright man the gift of\u00a0eternal\u00a0life<\/em>. He speaks thus:\u00a0<q>Blessed is the man that shows pity and lends, he will guide his affairs with discretion, surely he shall not be moved for ever, the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.<\/q>\u00a0And further:\u00a0<q>He has dispersed, he has given to the\u00a0poor, his\u00a0justice endures forever.<\/q> (<em>Ibid<\/em>., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34012.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, 2, 5 and 6<\/a>; my italics; Psalm 37:28 states: \u201che will not forsake his saints. The righteous shall be preserved for ever\u201d: RSV)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In the <em>faith alone<\/em> view, such works are considered, in the end, optional, as to salvation. For Ambrose (and for Jesus, too, as we see above), they literally help <em>bring about salvation<\/em>\u00a0 (a direct relation). This is the Catholic view whereby sanctification is not separated from justification; nor works from faith. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> works-salvation (Pelagianism). It\u2019s a centrality of works that necessarily flow from grace-produced and grace-enabled faith and justification, per the Bible (again, see my fifty proofs above). Ambrose refuses to separate works from faith, or vice versa:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>Faith, then, has <\/em>[the promise of]\u00a0<em>eternal\u00a0life, for it is a good foundation. Good works, too, have the same<\/em>, for an upright man is tested by his words and acts. For if a man is always busy talking and yet is slow to act, he shows by his acts how worthless his\u00a0knowledge\u00a0is: besides it is much worse to\u00a0know\u00a0what one ought to do, and yet not to do what one has learned should be done. On the other hand, to be active in good works and unfaithful at heart is as idle as though one wanted to raise a beautiful and lofty dome upon a bad foundation. The higher one builds, the greater is the fall; for <em>without the protection of\u00a0faith\u00a0good works cannot stand<\/em>. A treacherous anchorage in a harbour perforates a ship, and a sandy bottom quickly gives way and cannot bear the weight of the building placed upon it. There then will be found the fullness of reward, where the\u00a0virtues\u00a0are perfect, and where there is a reasonable agreement between words and acts. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34012.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">(<\/a><em>Ibid<\/em>., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34012.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, 2, 7<\/a>; my italics)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That is <em>not<\/em> teaching <em>faith alone<\/em> and the Protestant view, folks. He reiterates the point again (repetition being a great teacher): \u201cthe blessedness of\u00a0eternal life is the reward for good works\u201d (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34012.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, 3, 9<\/a>). Likewise, Ambrose states:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>But what does it profit me, if God Himself\u00a0knows\u00a0all my hairs? That rather abounds and profits me, if the watchful\u00a0witness\u00a0of good works reward me with the gift of\u00a0eternal life. (<em>On the Holy Spirit<\/em>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34022.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, Introduction, 16<\/a>)<\/p>\n<p>. . . the resurrection brings with it either the reward of good works, or the punishment of\u00a0wicked ones . . . (<em>On the Death of Satyrus<\/em>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34032.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, 52<\/a>)<\/p>\n<p>You did not dedicate yourself to the Lord on purpose to make your\u00a0family\u00a0rich, but that you might win\u00a0eternal\u00a0life by the fruit of good works, and atone for your\u00a0sins by showing mercy. . . . They attempt to take away the fruits of your life, and think they are acting rightly. And one accuses you because you have not made him rich, when all the time he wished to cheat you of the reward of\u00a0eternal life. (<em>On the Duties of the Clergy<\/em>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34011.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book I,\u00a0ch. 30, 150<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Therefore, St. Ambrose did not believe in justification by faith alone. Protestant historian Philip Schaff describes the \u201cReformation\u201d doctrine:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[I]t is the righteousness which God freely gives in Christ to those who believe in him. Righteousness is not to be acquired by man through his own exertions and merits; it is complete and perfect in Christ, and all the sinner has to do is to accept it from Him as a free gift. Justification is that judicial act of God whereby he acquits the sinner of guilt and clothes him with the righteousness of Christ on the sole condition of personal faith which apprehends and appropriates Christ and shows its life and power by good works, as a good tree bringing forth good fruits.<\/p>\n<p>The Pauline doctrine of justification as set forth in the Epistles to the Romans and Galatians, had never before been clearly and fully understood, not even by Augustin and Bernard, who confound justification with sanctification.<sup id=\"fna_ii.ii.ix-p8.1\" class=\"Note\"><\/sup>\u00a0Herein lies the difference between the Catholic and the Protestant conception. In the Catholic system justification (<em>dikaivwsi<\/em>) is a gradual process conditioned by faith and good works; in the Protestant system it is a single act of God, followed by sanctification. It is based upon the merits of Christ, conditioned by faith, and manifested by good works. (<em>History of the Christian Church<\/em>, vol. 7, \u00a7 23. <a href=\"https:\/\/ccel.org\/ccel\/schaff\/hcc7\/hcc7.ii.ii.ix.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cThe Victory of Justifying Faith\u201d<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Ambrose clearly doesn\u2019t believe the above, which is proven in how he repeatedly states that works play an important role in eschatological salvation (at the last judgment). To sum up, Tim A. Troutman observed in his article, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.calledtocommunion.com\/2019\/09\/st-ambrose-on-sola-fide\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cSt. Ambrose on Sola Fide\u201d<\/a> (<em>Called to Communion<\/em>, 9-16-19):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>St. Ambrose speaks at length about the necessary and primary role of faith in salvation. This should not be surprising since almost all of the Church fathers did the same thing and so do the Scriptures. But the doctrine of sola fide, as condemned by the Catholic Church, is not that faith is primary in salvation but that faith is the only contributing cause of salvation (to the arbitrary exclusion of other causes). I say arbitrary because they who hold it affirm its exclusion of works of charity, . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Troutman cited the following (very unProtestant) passage from Ambrose:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>But the\u00a0apostles, having this\u00a0baptism\u00a0according to the direction of\u00a0Christ, taught repentance, promised forgiveness, and remitted guilt, as David taught when he said:\u00a0<q>Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, and whose\u00a0sins\u00a0are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord has not imputed\u00a0sin.<\/q>\u00a0He calls each blessed, both him whose\u00a0sins\u00a0are remitted by the font, and him whose\u00a0sin\u00a0is covered by good works. For he who repents ought not only to wash away his\u00a0sin\u00a0by his tears, but also to cover and hide his former transgressions by amended\u00a0deeds, that\u00a0sin may not be imputed to him. (<em>Concerning Repentance<\/em>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.newadvent.org\/fathers\/34062.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Book II, 5, 35<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Educated Protestants could and would never frame the issue in the way that Ambrose does in all these excerpts that I have produced. Conclusion?: his views are harmonious with Catholic soteriology and not the Protestant soteriology of justification by faith alone.<\/p>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>*<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Practical Matters<\/em><\/strong>: Perhaps some of my 4,500+ free online articles (the most comprehensive \u201cone-stop\u201d Catholic apologetics site) or\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link 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decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2014\/01\/feedback-comments-on-my-writing-from-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">return to the Church<\/a>,\u00a0or better understand some doctrines and\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2021\/02\/the-biblical-basis-of-apologetics-defense-of-christianity.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>why<\/em>\u00a0we believe them<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I\u2019m always in need of more funds: especially\u00a0<em>monthly<\/em>\u00a0support. \u201cThe laborer is worthy of his wages\u201d (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2006\/07\/my-literary-resume.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">full-time Catholic apologist<\/a>, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/us\/webapps\/mpp\/sem\/account-selection-signup\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">PayPal donations<\/a>\u00a0are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. Here\u2019s also\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/us\/digital-wallet\/send-receive-money\/send-money\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">a second page to get to PayPal<\/a>. You\u2019ll see the term \u201cCatholic Used Book Service\u201d, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing (including\u00a0<a class=\" decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.zellepay.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Zelle<\/a>), see my page:\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/about-dave-armstrong-2.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong \/ Donation Information<\/a>.\u00a0<strong><em>Thanks a million<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0from the bottom of my heart!<\/p>\n<p>*<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit: <\/strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><em>St Ambrose<\/em>, by Matthias Stom (fl. 1615-1649)<\/span> [public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Matthias_Stom_-_St_Ambrose_-_WGA21804.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p><em>Summary<\/em>: Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper claimed that St. Ambrose taught \u201cfaith alone\u201d (citing one work). I offer a counter-explanation &amp; many other counter-evidences.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose\u2019s and St. Augustine\u2019s Views\u00a0 Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper\u00a0is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Executive Director of the popular\u00a0Just &amp; Sinner\u00a0YouTube channel, and the President of the American Lutheran Theological Seminary (which holds to a\u00a0doctrinally traditional Lutheranism, similar to the Lutheran Church \u2013 Missouri Synod). He has authored\u00a0several [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":81005,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[239,415],"tags":[6087,18572,18563,1117,2343,18569],"class_list":["post-80984","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fathers-of-the-church","category-lutheranism","tag-catholic-rule-of-faith","tag-church-fathers-faith-alone","tag-jordan-cooper","tag-protestant-soteriology","tag-sola-fide","tag-st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper) St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper)<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose&#039;s and St. Augustine&#039;s Views\u00a0 Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper\u00a0is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper claimed that St. Ambrose taught &quot;faith alone&quot; (citing one work). I offer a counter-explanation &amp; many other counter-evidences.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper) St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper)\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose&#039;s and St. Augustine&#039;s Views\u00a0 Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper\u00a0is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper claimed that St. Ambrose taught &quot;faith alone&quot; (citing one work). I offer a counter-explanation &amp; many other counter-evidences.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2024-02-29T21:10:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2024-03-05T17:23:44+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2024\/02\/Ambrose-scaled.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"768\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"570\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"15 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html\",\"name\":\"St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper) St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper)\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2024-02-29T21:10:50+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2024-03-05T17:23:44+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose's and St. Augustine's Views\u00a0 Rev. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper) St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper)","description":"+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose's and St. Augustine's Views\u00a0 Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper\u00a0is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper claimed that St. Ambrose taught \"faith alone\" (citing one work). 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I offer a counter-explanation & many other counter-evidences.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2024-02-29T21:10:50+00:00","article_modified_time":"2024-03-05T17:23:44+00:00","og_image":[{"width":768,"height":570,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2024\/02\/Ambrose-scaled.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"15 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2024\/02\/st-ambrose-vs-faith-alone-vs-jordan-cooper.html","name":"St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper) St. Ambrose vs. Faith Alone (vs. Jordan Cooper)","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website"},"datePublished":"2024-02-29T21:10:50+00:00","dateModified":"2024-03-05T17:23:44+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e"},"description":"+ Concupiscence: St. Ambrose's and St. Augustine's Views\u00a0 Rev. Dr. Jordan B. Cooper\u00a0is a Lutheran pastor, adjunct professor of Systematic Theology, Lutheran apologist Jordan Cooper claimed that St. Ambrose taught \"faith alone\" (citing one work). 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/80984","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=80984"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/80984\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/81005"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=80984"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=80984"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=80984"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}