{"id":91276,"date":"2025-05-03T11:10:14","date_gmt":"2025-05-03T15:10:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=91276"},"modified":"2025-05-03T19:15:34","modified_gmt":"2025-05-03T23:15:34","slug":"did-pope-francis-succeed-st-peter-reply-to-steve-ray","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2025\/05\/did-pope-francis-succeed-st-peter-reply-to-steve-ray.html","title":{"rendered":"Did Pope Francis Succeed St. Peter? Reply to Steve Ray"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

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Photo Credit<\/strong>: cover of my self-published book from 2014.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p>

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My good and esteemed friend and apologist-colleague and fellow Michigander Steve Ray wrote in a public Facebook post<\/a> (2 May 2025): \u201cWe don\u2019t need a successor of Pope Francis; we need a successor [of] St. Peter.\u201d Then in the combox, he wrote,<\/span> \u201cOh, I\u2019m very clear. There\u2019s a deeper meaning than the surface text. Think about it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

After thirteen hours, this post has received 706\u00a0 likes and 34 shares (sadly, par for the course for this sort of thing).<\/p>\n

So I did<\/em> think about it, and this is my reply:<\/p>\n

. . . which of course Pope Francis was, so it\u2019s a bit of self-contradictory reasoning. For the point (at least if taken literally) to be successful, one must presuppose the falsehood that Pope Francis was not<\/em> <\/strong>a successor of St. Peter, which is pseudo-sedevacantism, or a lousy pope who bound the faithful to false teaching (which would be contrary to the very high level Vatican I teaching of papal indefectibility<\/a>).<\/p>\n

If Pope Francis in fact did not<\/em><\/strong> bind the faithful to heresy or even non-heretical error, then it seems to me that the entire point is null and void. If he did, then I request that we all be shown where this occurred. Even pope-basher Phil Lawler, author of the hit piece, Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock<\/em> (2018), which I eviscerated in many critical reviews, denied that anyone has demonstrated that Pope Francis was guilty of any heresy. He wrote on 3 May 2019<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Is the Pope a heretic? I am not qualified to address that question. . . . Who could make the authoritative judgment that the Pope had fallen into heresy and therefore lost his authority? Certainly not a handful of independent scholars. . . .<\/p>\n

Peter Kwasniewski, one of the principal authors of the letter<\/a>, now says that the document lists \u201cinstances of heresy that cannot be denied.\u201d<\/a> This, I\u2019m afraid, is a demonstrably false statement. The \u201cinstances of heresy\u201d mentioned in the letter have been denied, and repeatedly. The authors of the letter are convinced of their own arguments, but they have not convinced others. In fact they have not convinced me, and if they cannot persuade a sympathetic reader, they are very unlikely to convince a skeptical world. . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

See my article on this view of Lawler\u2019s<\/a>, with many links. In a follow-up letter of 16 May 2025<\/a>, Lawler wrote: \u201c\u201cthe authors of the open letter made a tactical mistake, because the charge of heresy is very difficult to prove . . .\u201d Now, he may have changed his mind in the meantime, and adopted the brain-dead schismatic or quasi-schismatic mindset of Taylor Marshall or the excommunicate Vigano et al, but that\u2019s what he thought then, at any rate. And he was correct.<\/p>\n

So I respectfully dissent from my respected friend and fellow apologist and Michigander Steve. I simply couldn\u2019t let a statement like this pass by without comment.<\/p>\n

The anti-papal rhetoric \u2014 generally speaking now \u2014 will continue with the next pope: I have predicted for several years now. And it will because in my opinion as an apologist and longtime observer of the Christian community, it\u2019s a quasi-Protestant and Americanist attitude of hyper-individualism and nitpicking the pope whatever he does, which is highly reminiscent of both Martin Luther and theologically liberal dissident Catholics. It incorporates fundamental errors of both the far right and the far left of the ecclesiological spectrum. We either have a pope whom we respect and follow or not.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s not to say that we must agree with absolutely everything he said: up to what color socks to wear (as I have often joked about). I respectfully disagreed with Pope Francis on a few political issues, such as immigration, the use of nuclear energy, and climate change. But that\u2019s just it: those things aren\u2019t faith and morals and not areas where the pope is infallible or even particularly an expert. The Holy Father himself drew this distinction in his great encyclical Laudato si<\/em><\/a> (5-24-15), where he wrote, \u201cthe Church does not presume to settle scientific questions or to replace politics\u201d [188].<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not an ultramontanist in the sense that St. Cardinal Newman opposed. I am an orthodox Catholic, who follows the pope as the infallible and indefectible vicar of Christ on earth, and yes, the successor of St. Peter. What has happened in the last twelve years among his nattering nabob critics is an absolute disgrace and a scandal. I have done my best to counter these grave errors, with 241 articles defending the pope<\/a> (now it\u2019s 242) and proving that his critics were mistaken, and also a collection of 342 articles from others<\/a> doing the same thing. But no one can be convinced by something that they refuse to read<\/em> or seriously consider<\/em>, even if they do<\/em> read it.<\/p>\n

\u201cYou can lead the horse to water, but you can\u2019t make it drink,\u201d in other words . . . Jesus said several times, \u201cHe who has ears to hear, let him hear\u201d (Lk 14:35). He was criticizing the refusal to hear, or obstinacy. Many Catholics today refuse to consider any defense of Pope Francis because they have bought all of the propaganda and the false narrative. The only winner here is the devil. He has divided and conquered once again and we have been stupid and blind enough to let him do it.<\/p>\n

And the saddest thing of all is that it will continue in the next papacy, because nothing satisfies this sort of critical, unCatholic spirit . . .<\/p>\n

Now, when I generalize about an error as I am doing here (putting on my \u201cCatholic sociologist\u201d hat) the danger is that some people may think that I am assuming low motives or bad faith in those who hold the position, and that I am engaging in personal attacks. THIS IS NOT TRUE AT ALL. A person can hold an erroneous position in completely good faith and sincerity, thinking they are doing good and on the side of the angels. I think this is true, for example, of Luther and Calvin. At the same time it can be in fact an objectively false and dangerous belief. The effect is the same. The well-intentioned person spreading what is a grave error produces the same bad fruit.<\/p>\n

I know Steve (friends for 43 years) and I know his heart and his motivation for what he does. A person (like Steve) can do a tremendous amount of good work (as he has: which I immensely admire), but still simply be wrong on one point. In other words, it\u2019s not a matter of overall character (a \u201cgood\u201d or \u201cbad\u201d person) but (usually) of a good person who is simply wrong about a specific matter; has received erroneous teaching and accepted it. It\u2019s not a matter of good vs. evil but of right vs. wrong thinking (lacking facts, logic, internal cohesion and consistency, etc.).<\/p>\n

So I say that the vast majority of folks who follow this line of thought have simply fallen victim to bad thinking and analysis and perhaps also in some cases the enticements of the \u201cbandwagon.\u201d If a lot of people are saying a particular thing, then it\u2019s very difficult to dissent from it and to not be one of the crowd. The anti-Francis bandwagon became very large indeed and infiltrated many otherwise respectable and helpful institutions and Catholic circles. We all like to be accepted and we don\u2019t like controversy. I hate the latter myself. But my job requires me to be involved in it at times.<\/p>\n

I try to always do so without any personal enmity whatever, as in this case.<\/p>\n

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Photo Credit<\/strong>: cover of my self-published book from 2014<\/span> [see book and purchase information<\/a>]<\/p>\n

Summary<\/em>: Was Pope Francis a legitimate or worthy \u201csuccessor\u201d of St. Peter? The title of a Facebook post from my good friend & fellow apologist Steve Ray suggested otherwise & I replied.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u00a0 My good and esteemed friend and apologist-colleague and fellow Michigander Steve Ray wrote in a public Facebook post (2 May 2025): \u201cWe don\u2019t need a successor of Pope Francis; we need a successor [of] St. Peter.\u201d Then in the combox, he wrote, \u201cOh, I\u2019m very clear. There\u2019s a deeper meaning than the surface text. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":91279,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[138],"tags":[12422,813,1656,156,1848,5998],"class_list":["post-91276","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-papacy-infallibility","tag-papal-indefectibility","tag-papal-infallibility","tag-papal-succession","tag-pope-francis","tag-pope-bashing","tag-steve-ray"],"yoast_head":"\nDid Pope Francis Succeed St. Peter? 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Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Did Pope Francis Succeed St. Peter? Reply to Steve Ray","description":"Was Pope Francis a legitimate or worthy \"successor\" of St. Peter? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/91276","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=91276"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/91276\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/91279"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=91276"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=91276"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=91276"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}