{"id":96,"date":"2015-08-08T19:10:00","date_gmt":"2015-08-08T19:10:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html"},"modified":"2017-05-24T13:50:51","modified_gmt":"2017-05-24T17:50:51","slug":"new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html","title":{"rendered":"Argument for Veneration of Saints &#038; Angels from Prohibition of Blasphemy"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/CorneliusAngel.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-2664\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/CorneliusAngel-300x226.jpg\" alt=\"CorneliusAngel\" width=\"450\" height=\"340\"><\/a><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><i style=\"color: #252525;\">Vision of Cornelius the Centurion <\/i>(1664) by<i style=\"color: #252525;\">\u00a0<span style=\"font-style: normal;\">Gerbrand van den Eeckhout<\/span>\u00a0<\/i> (1621-1674) [public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Gerbrand_van_den_Eeckhout_-_Vision_of_Cornelius_the_Centurion_-_Walters_372492.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\">(8-8-15)<\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\">\n***<\/div>\n<p>The Bible looks negatively on what it describes as \u201cblasphemy\u201d \u2014 not just against God, but against holy persons or those set apart for His purposes (Moses: Acts 6:11; St. Paul: Acts 13:45; 18:6; saints in heaven: Rev 13:6; Christians in general: 1 Pet 4:4), and against angels (2 Pet 2:10; Jude 8; Rev 13:6). The same words for blasphemy are used for men, angels, and God.<\/p>\n<p>This is because these men and angels serve as His messengers (2 Cor 8:23), direct representatives (Matt 10:40; Lk 10:16; Jn 13:20), ambassadors (2 Cor 5:20; Eph 6:20; Phlm 1:9), or witnesses (Jn 15:27; 19:35; 21:24; Acts 1:8; 2:32; 3:15; 10:39-41; 23:11; 1 Pet 5:1; Rev 1:2; 6:9). Indeed, Christians are even described as \u201cfellow workers\u201d with Him (1 Cor 3:9; 2 Cor 6:1; Phil 2:12-13). The Church is equated with Jesus Himself (both being persecuted in the same actions: Acts 26:11, 14-15), and there is also an identification of the Church \u201cBody of Christ\u201d with Christ Himself (1 Cor 12:27; Eph 1:22-23; 5:30; Col 1:24).<\/p>\n<p>The aspect of divinization, or<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2004\/07\/theosis-and-gods-exalted-role-for.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u00a0<i>theosis<\/i><\/a>, is a biblical motif of very close identification and union with God:<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"tr_bq\"><p><b>Acts 17:28\u00a0<\/b>(RSV)<b>\u00a0<\/b>for \u2018<b style=\"color: blue;\">In him we live and move and have our being<\/b>\u2018: . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote><p><b>2 Corinthians 3:18\u00a0<\/b>And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being\u00a0<b style=\"color: blue;\">changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another<\/b>; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18)<\/p>\n<p><b>Ephesians 3:19\u00a0<\/b>. . . to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be\u00a0<b><span style=\"color: blue;\">filled with all the fulness of God<\/span><\/b>.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ephesians 4:13 . . .\u00a0<\/b>mature manhood, to the\u00a0<b style=\"color: blue;\">measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ<\/b>.<\/p>\n<p><b>2 Peter 1:3-4<\/b>\u00a0His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, [4] by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and\u00a0<b style=\"color: blue;\">become partakers of the divine nature<\/b>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In other words, the key is\u00a0<i>affinity<\/i>\u00a0with, or closeness;\u00a0<i>proximity to God<\/i>. Just as God can be blasphemed, in a lesser but still very real sense, so can His ambassadors and witnesses. There is the primary Being: God, and the secondary ones: His vessels. They reflect and represent God; therefore, as such, people can scorn and reject and blaspheme them just as they do God.<\/p>\n<p>It seems to straightforwardly follow, then, by analogy, that if a<i>\u00a0<\/i>rejection or blasphemy of\u00a0<i>God<\/i>\u00a0can be expressed via an essentially lesser but connected rejection or blasphemy of His\u00a0<i>ambassadors<\/i>\u00a0(the lesser vessel being in close affinity with the greater source), by the same token and principle and logic, conversely, the\u00a0<i>worship<\/i>\u00a0of God can be expressed via an essentially lesser but connected\u00a0\u00a0<i>veneration<\/i>\u00a0of His ambassadors.<\/p>\n<p>In this manner, the wider application of blasphemy in Scripture to creatures suggests by symmetrical analogy, a wider application of honoring: expressed in veneration of creatures, which is distinct (but not altogether disconnected) from the adoration that God alone is entitled to, as Creator. The creatures reflect the Creator like the painting reflects the painter, or moonlight, the sunlight that is the source of it.<\/p>\n<p>Moreover, we see that the Bible refers blasphemy of men almost solely to the most eminent of God\u2019s followers (Paul, Moses, and perfected saints in heaven): and angels even higher in the scale of things. Thus, by analogy, the relatively greater veneration would be towards those who had attained a higher holiness and sanctity; hence in the Bible we see a differential \u201csystem\u201d of blasphemy \/ veneration not unlike how the Catholic Church ranks lesser and greater saints, with the greater receiving more veneration.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly, the biblical data about blasphemy of immaterial holy things (the gospel, Christian doctrine, the law, the Temple) leads to the opposite analogy of\u00a0<i>reverence<\/i>\u00a0of those same holy things and places (\u201cThe Holy Bible\u201d: as even Protestants call it; the Holy Land, icons, Church sanctuaries, statues representing saints, etc.). The essential and fundamental, presuppositional\u00a0 principles of all these things are clearly laid down in the Bible, if not explicitly in every jot and tittle.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Vision of Cornelius the Centurion (1664) by\u00a0Gerbrand van den Eeckhout\u00a0 (1621-1674) [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] *** (8-8-15) *** The Bible looks negatively on what it describes as \u201cblasphemy\u201d \u2014 not just against God, but against holy persons or those set apart for His purposes (Moses: Acts 6:11; St. Paul: Acts 13:45; 18:6; saints in [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":2664,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[206],"tags":[266,201,264,265,263],"class_list":["post-96","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saints-purgatory-penance","tag-angels","tag-communion-of-saints","tag-honoring-saints","tag-veneration-of-angels","tag-veneration-of-saints"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Argument for Veneration of Saints &amp; 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Argument for Veneration of Saints & Angels from Prohibition of Blasphemy","description":"If blasphemy of God can be expressed via blasphemy of His ambassadors, conversely, the worship of God can be expressed via veneration of His ambassadors.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Argument for Veneration of Saints & Angels from Prohibition of Blasphemy","og_description":"If blasphemy of God can be expressed via blasphemy of His ambassadors, conversely, the worship of God can be expressed via veneration of His ambassadors.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2015-08-08T19:10:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-05-24T17:50:51+00:00","og_image":[{"width":768,"height":580,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/CorneliusAngel.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html","name":"Argument for Veneration of Saints & Angels from Prohibition of Blasphemy","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website"},"datePublished":"2015-08-08T19:10:00+00:00","dateModified":"2017-05-24T17:50:51+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e"},"description":"If blasphemy of God can be expressed via blasphemy of His ambassadors, conversely, the worship of God can be expressed via veneration of His ambassadors.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/new-analogical-argument-for-veneration-of-the-saints-and-angels-from-the-prohibition-of-blasphemy-of-the-same.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Argument for Veneration of Saints &#038; 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/96","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=96"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/96\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2664"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=96"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=96"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=96"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}