{"id":780,"date":"2010-04-11T23:25:00","date_gmt":"2010-04-11T23:25:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780\/"},"modified":"2010-04-11T23:25:00","modified_gmt":"2010-04-11T23:25:00","slug":"780","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html","title":{"rendered":""},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\u201cJOKING, OF COURSE\u201d<\/span>: Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians<\/span> and \u201cGreeneland.\u201d<\/p>\n

1. Honky-Talk Heroes<\/span>: It\u2019s possible that you\u2019ve heard the phrase, \u201cWhat these people need is a honky!\u201d It\u2019s usually used to describe a particular kind of movie\u2013I haven\u2019t seen either of these, but Dances With Wolves<\/span> and Avatar<\/span> are pretty frequently cited as culprits\u2013in which a nonwhite or coded-as-nonwhite culture can only stand up to its oppressors once it\u2019s been shown the way by the white-ass honky man. He is the best rebel of them all!<\/p>\n

The Comedians<\/span> both exploits and subverts this cliche, and I\u2019d say it\u2019s about 30% exploitation and 70% subversion. So if you\u2019re interested in how white-dominated\/mainstream movies presented race in the \u201960s, this is an Interesting Case. This is not the movie a black Catholic would make, and I think that\u2019s pretty obvious just from the casting and assumed audience. But it\u2019s still pretty intent on subverting this specific trope.<\/p>\n

2. He Do the Priests in Different Voices<\/span>: Graham Greene is really hard to take seriously. He gets overpraised by Catholics who envy the mid-20th-century moment when we seemed to be gaining the literary respect we really deserved in 1890. He then gets underestimated by people who think he\u2019s just a catechism with moving pictures.<\/p>\n

What he really is, I think, is good enough. The basic elements of the Greene novels I\u2019ve read are: This world is absurd and cruel, and you are helpless against its cruel absurdity; England is Haiti is Africa is everywhere, there\u2019s no geographical escape and white men are just scraped black men; justice is Hell; the Eucharist is mercy, but mercy must be accepted freely; the Catholic Church is the universal cynosure and everyone in the whole wide world thinks She\u2019s important.<\/p>\n

Some of these points are obviously controversial! And I get that the specific way in which Greene lays the Church on with a trowel alienates many readers. It often doesn\u2019t work for me, because he tends to move too quickly from the character point\u2013this actual character would say this actual prayer\u2013to the symbolic. I\u2019m hoping that I\u2019ve learned from him, in my own Catholic novel (of which more in the next couple of days), how to integrate what characters do and what authors cry for.<\/p>\n

But honestly\u2013if nothing in Greene\u2019s Catholicism moves you, I think you are missing some basic point of philosophy, some basic moment in what it is to be human. He is not a zoetrope catechism. He\u2019s a Catholic man of the twentieth century, with all that implies. He\u2019s a weird man who wants to be a weird saint but can\u2019t figure out how; he\u2019s a person who wants to be real.<\/p>\n

3. Does Anybody Remember Laughter?<\/span> I think I would pay huge amounts of money I don\u2019t have to anyone who would compare and contrast the use of \u201ccomedy\u201d and \u201ccomedians\u201d in this movie, vs. the use of ditto in Watchmen<\/span>. Because I\u2019m honestly not joking (\u2026of course) when I say I think they\u2019re doing the same thing. Both works are, I think, assertions\u2013in Greene\u2019s case explicit, in Moore\u2019s case denied\u2013of meaning<\/span> against the obvious sick joke of this world.<\/p>\n

The punchline, which comes like a gut-punch, is: There is a God.<\/p>\n

ETA: Argh sorry, that was overstated and misleading. Of course Watchmen<\/span> is an atheist comic book and an anguished one. But I do think that among the various philosophical stances its characters put forward, there\u2019s a strong assertion that justice is more than the exercise of will, and therefore<\/span> meaning is given rather than created. And I don\u2019t really think that stance makes sense without God, as I\u2019ve said a bunch of times, even though again, Watchmen<\/span> doesn\u2019t go there. But anyway, just wanted to clarify what I meant. I\u2019m more interested in the compare\/contrast in the use of \u201ccomedian\u201d imagery, & shouldn\u2019t\u2019ve overstated the rest of it\u2026.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u201cJOKING, OF COURSE\u201d: Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and \u201cGreeneland.\u201d 1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It\u2019s possible that you\u2019ve heard the phrase, \u201cWhat these people need is a honky!\u201d It\u2019s usually used to describe a particular kind of movie\u2013I haven\u2019t seen either of these, but Dances With Wolves and Avatar are pretty frequently cited as […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1071,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-780","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nEve Tushnet<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\""JOKING, OF COURSE": Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and "Greeneland."1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It's possible that you've heard the phrase,\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\""JOKING, OF COURSE": Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and "Greeneland."1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It's possible that you've heard the phrase,\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Eve Tushnet\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2010-04-11T23:25:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Eve Tushnet\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Eve Tushnet\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html\",\"name\":\"\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2010-04-11T23:25:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2010-04-11T23:25:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#\/schema\/person\/ca04686b93c92257f019070302a23415\"},\"description\":\"\\\"JOKING, OF COURSE\\\": Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and \\\"Greeneland.\\\"1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It's possible that you've heard the phrase,\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/\",\"name\":\"Eve Tushnet\",\"description\":\"Conservatism reborn in twisted sisterhood\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#\/schema\/person\/ca04686b93c92257f019070302a23415\",\"name\":\"Eve Tushnet\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/be87ff28da150cb07788911c22e42ae2?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/be87ff28da150cb07788911c22e42ae2?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Eve Tushnet\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/author\/evetushnet\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Eve Tushnet","description":"\"JOKING, OF COURSE\": Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and \"Greeneland.\"1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It's possible that you've heard the phrase,","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_description":"\"JOKING, OF COURSE\": Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and \"Greeneland.\"1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It's possible that you've heard the phrase,","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html","og_site_name":"Eve Tushnet","article_published_time":"2010-04-11T23:25:00+00:00","author":"Eve Tushnet","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Eve Tushnet","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html","name":"","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#website"},"datePublished":"2010-04-11T23:25:00+00:00","dateModified":"2010-04-11T23:25:00+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#\/schema\/person\/ca04686b93c92257f019070302a23415"},"description":"\"JOKING, OF COURSE\": Three more quick thoughts about The Comedians and \"Greeneland.\"1. Honky-Talk Heroes: It's possible that you've heard the phrase,","inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/2010\/04\/780.html"]}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/","name":"Eve Tushnet","description":"Conservatism reborn in twisted sisterhood","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#\/schema\/person\/ca04686b93c92257f019070302a23415","name":"Eve Tushnet","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/be87ff28da150cb07788911c22e42ae2?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/be87ff28da150cb07788911c22e42ae2?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Eve Tushnet"},"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/author\/evetushnet"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/780","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1071"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=780"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/780\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=780"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=780"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/evetushnet\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=780"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}