{"id":5632,"date":"2012-02-02T09:15:40","date_gmt":"2012-02-02T14:15:40","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/?p=5632"},"modified":"2012-02-02T09:23:46","modified_gmt":"2012-02-02T14:23:46","slug":"apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/","title":{"rendered":"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney’s Impact"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons<\/a> yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons responding to his comments at sites far removed.\u00a0 In fact, there\u2019s a bumper crop of Mormon apologetics springing up all over the place and I\u2019m detecting a bit of a common theme.\u00a0 It is, I think, something of a South Park approach.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Here is the relevant dialogue from the Southpark episode \u201cAll About Mormons:\u201d<\/p>\n

Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in crazy stories that make absolutely no sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make it all up, but I have a great life and a great family, and I have the Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I don\u2019t care if Joseph Smith made it all up, because what the church teaches now is loving your family, being nice and helping people. And even though people in this town might think that\u2019s stupid, I still choose to believe in it. All I ever did was try to be your friend, Stan, but you\u2019re so high and mighty you couldn\u2019t look past my religion and just be my friend back. You\u2019ve got a lot of growing up to do, buddy. S*ck my b*lls.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Now most of the apologetic arguments don\u2019t end with as much pungency but the gist is much the same:\u00a0 exemplary behavior is a better indication of discipleship than theological orthodoxy.\u00a0\u00a0 And to be sure, if orthopraxy were ever to actually catch on it would revolutionize Christianity.\u00a0 However, since it\u2019s much easier to recite creeds than to love your crankypants, neighbor, my hopes in this respect are not high.<\/p>\n

To bring this into a more distinctly LDS focus, let me show you something said by James Barr in the 1991 Gifford Lectures in Edinburgh.\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0His immediate context was a wider examination of the conflict between Emil Brunner and Karl Barth over natural theology, but I think I can lift out this section without damage:<\/p>\n

\u2026argument of the apologetic type, if it is allowed at all, may not only support faith but may also exercise upon it a critical <\/em>function: it may say, well, yes, we believe and faith is justifiable, but it will be more easily justifiable if we keep it within certain bounds.\u00a0 We can demonstrate the reality of God, but only if our faith in God remains fairly close to the sort of God whose reality we can demonstrate.\u00a0 Science may leave room for divine creation, but not if we insist that divine creation took place in one week in 4004 BCE and in the exact sequence described in Genesis.\u00a0 Historical study may leave room for divine action in history, but only if that divine action is seen in a less crude and more sophisticated way\u2026\u00a0 Thus, the apologetic functions\u2026do not only support faith but they also tend to act critically upon faith, to correct it, to guide it into certain channels. (emph. in the original)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I think there\u2019s something to Barr\u2019s point.\u00a0 In the LDS context we claim to be led by revelation and we usually mean specifically that revelation given to a small group of men. \u00a0\u00a0But in a practical sense some limits are set simply by what we\u2019re willing to defend in public, regardless of how the gentlemen in question understood their own pronouncements.\u00a0 IOW, we are led by revelation but it\u2019s not limited to the revelation experienced by leaders.\u00a0 We defend LDS revelation based on our own revelation and experience.<\/p>\n

In the current situation I think I\u2019m seeing, for example, more and more people who, as they rise to defend the LDS religion, do so by advocating the LDS lifestyle.\u00a0 There are also many more explicit statements that turn away from defending some heretofore key points.\u00a0 For example, the historicity of the origins of the BoM is not important to some commenters because what is important is the life into which the text has led them.<\/p>\n

And so I wonder how we are all going to be changed by Romney\u2019s foray into national politics.\u00a0 \u00a0If Barr is right, I expect less emphasis on doctrine and particularly the more esoteric aspects, except where we can establish that these doctrines contribute to a lifestyle that compares favorably with the wider Christian world.\u00a0 In particular, I wonder if we will see a softening of stance on the historicity of the BoM. \u00a0 We shall see.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons responding to his comments at sites far removed.\u00a0 In fact, there\u2019s a bumper crop of Mormon apologetics springing up all over the place and I\u2019m detecting a bit of a common theme.\u00a0 […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":457,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[28,5,8,13,14,17],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5632","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-book-of-mormon","category-doctrine","category-history","category-mormon-culture","category-mormon-studies","category-politics"],"yoast_head":"\nApologetics Into Doctrine: Romney's Impact<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney's Impact\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Faith-Promoting Rumor\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2012-02-02T14:15:40+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2012-02-02T14:23:46+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"mogget\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"mogget\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/\",\"name\":\"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney's Impact\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2012-02-02T14:15:40+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2012-02-02T14:23:46+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#\/schema\/person\/56a00000e50fe35190fe3aad78ed2f0c\"},\"description\":\"It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney’s Impact\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/\",\"name\":\"Faith-Promoting Rumor\",\"description\":\"Exploring Mormon Thought, Culture, and Texts\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#\/schema\/person\/56a00000e50fe35190fe3aad78ed2f0c\",\"name\":\"mogget\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/author\/mogget\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney's Impact","description":"It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney's Impact","og_description":"It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/","og_site_name":"Faith-Promoting Rumor","article_published_time":"2012-02-02T14:15:40+00:00","article_modified_time":"2012-02-02T14:23:46+00:00","author":"mogget","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"mogget","Est. reading time":"4 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/","name":"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney's Impact","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#website"},"datePublished":"2012-02-02T14:15:40+00:00","dateModified":"2012-02-02T14:23:46+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#\/schema\/person\/56a00000e50fe35190fe3aad78ed2f0c"},"description":"It appears that Andrew Sullivan published something on Mormons yesterday.\u00a0 How do I know this without reading Sullivan?\u00a0 Because there\u2019s a zillion Mormons","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/2012\/02\/apologetics-into-doctrine-romneys-impact\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Apologetics Into Doctrine: Romney’s Impact"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/","name":"Faith-Promoting Rumor","description":"Exploring Mormon Thought, Culture, and Texts","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/#\/schema\/person\/56a00000e50fe35190fe3aad78ed2f0c","name":"mogget","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/author\/mogget\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5632","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/457"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5632"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5632\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5632"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5632"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/faithpromotingrumor\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5632"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}