{"id":30,"date":"2014-09-12T10:35:02","date_gmt":"2014-09-12T14:35:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/?p=30"},"modified":"2014-09-12T10:35:02","modified_gmt":"2014-09-12T14:35:02","slug":"hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/","title":{"rendered":"Hindus believe in eternal souls &#8212; but Christians don&#8217;t!"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><figure id=\"attachment_36\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-36\" style=\"width: 219px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/475\/2014\/09\/paramatma-atma.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-36\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/475\/2014\/09\/paramatma-atma.jpg\" alt=\"Concept art depicting the atma's oneness with Paramatma.\" width=\"219\" height=\"300\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-36\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Concept art depicting the atma\u2019s oneness with Paramatma.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p><p>One of the fundamental beliefs of Hinduism is that your eternal soul is One with God. It\u2019s important to note that your eternal soul isn\u2019t the same thing as your personality. An adult has the same soul s\/he had as a child, even though the child hated spinach and the adult now loves spinach. Your soul is the part of you that doesn\u2019t change when you start listening to a new style of music or learn a foreign language or give up drinking.<\/p>\n<p>I think a common belief about Christianity is that, like Hinduism, it teaches that you have an eternal soul, but unlike Hinduism there is no reincarnation \u2014 only an eternity in heaven or hell. Not so.<\/p>\n<p>Turns out, Christianity doesn\u2019t actually teach that we have eternal souls! The first time I learned this was in a book I was reading six or seven years ago called <em>Good Eating<\/em>, which is about fasting, vegetarianism, and animal rights \u2014 basically, a theology of animals and our relationship to them as well as a spiritual discussion of food. The author, Stephen H. Webb, is a theologian and was a Professor of Religion and Philosophy at Wabash College until 2012. One reason people practice vegetarianism is that they believe animals have souls, but Webb points out that Christians don\u2019t even believe humans have souls.<\/p>\n<p>In chapter seven, \u201cWill All Good Dogs Go to Heaven?\u201d, he\u00a0says (page 172):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>One of the most striking and distinctive Christian beliefs is the resurrection of the body. The ancient Greeks believed in something very different from this, namely, the immortality of the soul. They defined the soul as that which is self-moving. The soul does not move due to any external cause. Since the soul has the essence of motion within itself, it is immortal, having no beginning and no end. The soul thus precedes and outlives the body, which is but a temporary home for that which never decays or changes.<\/p>\n<p>This is a beautiful portrait of the soul, and many people are inspired by it to this day, but it is hardly Christian. The idea of an immortal soul puts a limit on God\u2019s power and grace. It is as if the soul is a necessary precondition or prerequisite for the idea of heaven. We have an afterlife because that which is in us never really dies; we are immortal. Christians believe that humans are not comprised of eternal souls that are only temporarily visiting our bodies. Our bodies are not transitional soul homes that can be demolished once the occupant departs for heaven. Instead, heaven restores us completely, so that our very physical existence matters to God.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I was most struck by his statement that <strong>a soul puts a limit on God\u2019s power and grace<\/strong>. I just can\u2019t wrap my head around this concept.<\/p>\n<p>He goes on to say:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>God does not create souls and then plant them into bodies, using the flesh as a container that can be discarded when it has served its function. God creates material beings who can think, feel, suffer, and worship. In all creatures flows the breath of God\u2019s invigorating spirit\u2026God gives life, God can take life away, and God will restore all life in the end. Death is real and final, yet God conquers death as demonstrated by the resurrection of God\u2019s son, Jesus Christ.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So in this sense, Christianity is as materialist as atheism.<\/p>\n<p>Then on page 173, he says:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The idea that the soul is eternal is a pagan idea because it assumes that something in us will live forever regardless of God\u2019s sustaining activity. The Christian idea is that the afterlife, just as with this life, is a gift of God\u2019s grace.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He then directly contradicts what Krishna says in chapter two of the <em>Bhagavad Gita<\/em> \u2014 without referencing the <em>Gita<\/em> itself \u2014 (<em>Bhagavad Gita<\/em> 2.22 \u201c<strong>As a man abandons worn-out clothes and acquires new ones, so when the body is worn out a new one is acquired by the Self, who lives within.\u201d<\/strong>) by saying:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>We cannot imagine ourselves as bodiless souls, wrapped in flesh which can be peeled off like a winter coat and left at the door of death. If there is an afterlife, it must involve who we are in terms of our most embodied experiences.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Another thing that strikes me is that, while souls would apparently limit God\u2019s power in some way, the author confidently asserts, \u201c<em>If there is an afterlife, it must involve\u2026<\/em>\u201d as though telling God what the afterlife must involve doesn\u2019t limit God\u2019s power.<\/p>\n<p>I know that in Christian pop theology, Grandma\u2019s \u201cin heaven with Jesus,\u201d but correct Christian theology is that Grandma\u2019s decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore\u00a0her body. This must be why Christians preserve (to the best of their abilities) the body and bury it, rather than cremating. When Christians recite in the Apostle\u2019s Creed that they believe in \u201cthe resurrection of the body\u201d it really does mean that they believe the very body they inhabit now will come back to life. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.<\/p>\n<p>Ironically, I had already drafted this post, but was nervous about it. I mean, obviously Christians believe in eternal souls. Don\u2019t they? Then I happened upon a post at the Catholic Channel here at Patheos that answered my question: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/cosmostheinlost\/2014\/09\/02\/fact-christians-dont-believe-in-the-immortality-of-the-soul\/\" target=\"_blank\" class=\" decorated-link\">FACT: Christians DON\u2019T Believe in the Immortality of the Soul.<\/a> So there you have it. A key difference between Hindu and Christian thought is whether your soul is eternal and whether you\u2019ll need this body back for the afterlife.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In Christian pop theology, Grandma&#8217;s &#8220;in heaven with Jesus,&#8221; but correct Christian theology is that Grandma&#8217;s decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2044,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[9,4,5],"class_list":["post-30","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-theology","tag-christianity","tag-hindu","tag-hinduism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Hindus believe in eternal souls -- but Christians don&#039;t!<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In Christian pop theology, Grandma&#039;s &quot;in heaven with Jesus,&quot; but correct Christian theology is that Grandma&#039;s decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Hindus believe in eternal souls -- but Christians don&#039;t!\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In Christian pop theology, Grandma&#039;s &quot;in heaven with Jesus,&quot; but correct Christian theology is that Grandma&#039;s decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Gathering Nectar\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-09-12T14:35:02+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/wp.production.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/files\/2014\/09\/paramatma-atma.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Deepika Birks\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Deepika Birks\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"5 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/\",\"name\":\"Hindus believe in eternal souls -- but Christians don't!\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2014-09-12T14:35:02+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2014-09-12T14:35:02+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#\/schema\/person\/88575c70bc4fd09ba26f763268b468c2\"},\"description\":\"In Christian pop theology, Grandma's \\\"in heaven with Jesus,\\\" but correct Christian theology is that Grandma's decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Hindus believe in eternal souls &#8212; but Christians don&#8217;t!\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/\",\"name\":\"Gathering Nectar\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#\/schema\/person\/88575c70bc4fd09ba26f763268b468c2\",\"name\":\"Deepika Birks\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4eab31f620eb911c04e057c051c1839e?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4eab31f620eb911c04e057c051c1839e?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Deepika Birks\"},\"description\":\"Deepika Birks is an American Hindu with a background in comparative religion and theology. She is certified in Yoga Philosophy and regularly takes classes in scripture and puja from the Devi Mandir. She has a particular interest in vrata kathas and is a Mahabharata fangirl.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/author\/dbirks\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Hindus believe in eternal souls -- but Christians don't!","description":"In Christian pop theology, Grandma's \"in heaven with Jesus,\" but correct Christian theology is that Grandma's decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Hindus believe in eternal souls -- but Christians don't!","og_description":"In Christian pop theology, Grandma's \"in heaven with Jesus,\" but correct Christian theology is that Grandma's decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/","og_site_name":"Gathering Nectar","article_published_time":"2014-09-12T14:35:02+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/wp.production.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/files\/2014\/09\/paramatma-atma.jpg"}],"author":"Deepika Birks","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Deepika Birks","Est. reading time":"5 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/","name":"Hindus believe in eternal souls -- but Christians don't!","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#website"},"datePublished":"2014-09-12T14:35:02+00:00","dateModified":"2014-09-12T14:35:02+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#\/schema\/person\/88575c70bc4fd09ba26f763268b468c2"},"description":"In Christian pop theology, Grandma's \"in heaven with Jesus,\" but correct Christian theology is that Grandma's decaying in the ground and Jesus will eventually restore her body. Contrast this with Hindu belief that this body will be discarded, as will the bodies that come after it, and that heavenly existence is Oneness with God that does not require a body.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/2014\/09\/hindus-believe-in-eternal-souls-but-christians-dont\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Hindus believe in eternal souls &#8212; but Christians don&#8217;t!"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/","name":"Gathering Nectar","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#\/schema\/person\/88575c70bc4fd09ba26f763268b468c2","name":"Deepika Birks","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4eab31f620eb911c04e057c051c1839e?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4eab31f620eb911c04e057c051c1839e?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Deepika Birks"},"description":"Deepika Birks is an American Hindu with a background in comparative religion and theology. She is certified in Yoga Philosophy and regularly takes classes in scripture and puja from the Devi Mandir. She has a particular interest in vrata kathas and is a Mahabharata fangirl.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/author\/dbirks\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/30","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2044"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=30"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/30\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=30"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=30"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/gatheringnectar\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=30"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}