{"id":18010,"date":"2014-02-18T06:00:57","date_gmt":"2014-02-18T11:00:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/?p=18010"},"modified":"2014-02-17T19:12:59","modified_gmt":"2014-02-18T00:12:59","slug":"why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/","title":{"rendered":"Why the family &#038; the church are prior to the state"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>In the context of a discussion of the movie <em>The Wolf of Wall Street<\/em>,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther\u2019s concept of the \u201cOrders of Creation\u201d (in each of which we have vocations).\u00a0 God established the family (the marriage of Adam &amp; Eve) and the church (ordering His relationship with Adam &amp; Eve) BEFORE the Fall.\u00a0 God established the state AFTER the Fall, as a response to human sin, which now needs to be restrained for society to be possible.\u00a0\u00a0 Thus, the church and the family are more basic to human existence in God\u2019s design than the state.\u00a0 When these orders get confused\u2013as when the state takes the place of the church and the family\u2013trouble ensues.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>From Dr. Jack Kilcrease, at <a href=\"http:\/\/jackkilcrease.blogspot.com\/2014\/02\/the-wolf-of-wallstreet-and-orders-of.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Theologia Crusis<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>In our current political discourse the State is meant to bear weight that as an Order of Creation that it wasn\u2019t established by God to bear. In other words, the assumption is that human flourishing happens if we get politics right. In fact, not just human flourishing happens but maybe even the Kingdom of God happens- witness the strange messianic projects that both liberal and conservative Presidents have wanted to take up in recent decades. It\u2019s just the matter of invading one more country and converting it to democracy, or it\u2019s a matter of inventing just one more social program- and \u201cBam!\u201d the kingdom has come!<\/p>\n<div id=\"premium-content\">\n<p>From the perspective of Luther\u2019s Genesis commentary, this is all wrong. In his commentary on the primal narrative of human life before the Fall, Luther shows that God established first the Family and then the Church as the original and most authentic setting of human existence. They were created before the Fall into sin and therefore are not necessarily a response to the condition of human sin. Rather, they are a natural setting for human life on earth. They only become unworkable on their own when sin comes in. Therefore after the Flood, in Genesis 9 God promulgates the new law of retribution, thereby implying the establishment of the Order of the State as Paul confirms in Romans 13. Hence, the State and its coercion are not meant as a means of the fulfillment of human life. It is, unlike the other Orders, something created in order to counteract human sin and therefore make up for the failures of the first two Orders. Nevertheless, it cannot replace these other Orders. . . .<\/p>\n<p>The State must either remain impotent in the face of a corrupt culture where the Orders of the Church and Family are non-functional, or it must actually take over those functions and become more and more intrusive, totalizing, and, indeed, tyrannical.\u00a0 And this latter course more often than not happens.\u00a0 And so there comes about a kind of symbiotic effect.\u00a0 The more the Church and the Family deteriorate as Orders, so the Order of the State takes over their functions.\u00a0 And the State feeds children and supports families because there is no father.\u00a0 The State teaches \u201cvirtue\u201d (after a fashion) in public schools.\u00a0 And the State becomes a kind of religion and now brings the kingdom.\u00a0 Nevertheless, it is likewise the case, that as the State takes over these functions and becomes more and more totalizing, it also accelerates the deterioration of the Orders of the Family and the Church as well.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote><\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther\u2019s concept of the \u201cOrders of Creation\u201d (in each of which we have vocations).\u00a0 God established the family (the marriage of Adam &amp; Eve) and the church (ordering His relationship with Adam &amp; Eve) BEFORE the Fall.\u00a0 [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1281,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,16,19,31,47,48],"tags":[475,809,3018,3019],"class_list":["post-18010","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-church","category-family","category-government","category-movies","category-theology","category-vocation","tag-church-2","tag-family-2","tag-orders-of-creation","tag-state"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Why the family &amp; the church are prior to the state<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther&#039;s concept of the &quot;Orders of Creation&quot; (in each\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Why the family &amp; the church are prior to the state\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther&#039;s concept of the &quot;Orders of Creation&quot; (in each\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Cranach\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cranachblog\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-02-18T11:00:57+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2014-02-18T00:12:59+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Gene Veith\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Gene Veith\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/\",\"name\":\"Why the family & the church are prior to the state\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2014-02-18T11:00:57+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2014-02-18T00:12:59+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/f9ca8670bcc51908a78994c0484dbfa1\"},\"description\":\"In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther's concept of the \\\"Orders of Creation\\\" (in each\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Why the family &#038; the church are prior to the state\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/\",\"name\":\"Cranach\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/f9ca8670bcc51908a78994c0484dbfa1\",\"name\":\"Gene Veith\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/054d79faea5d476edd8f99e5f14fb17f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/054d79faea5d476edd8f99e5f14fb17f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Gene Veith\"},\"description\":\"Gene Edward Veith, Jr. is a writer and retired literature professor, serving as Provost Emeritus at Patrick Henry College. He has authored over 25 books on Christianity and culture, literature, classical education, and theology. Dr. Veith previously held academic and editorial roles at Concordia University Wisconsin and WORLD Magazine. A respected voice in Lutheran and classical education circles, he holds a Ph.D. in English and several honorary doctorates. He and his wife, Jackquelyn, live in St. Louis and have three children and twelve grandchildren.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cranachblog\/\",\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Gene_Edward_Veith\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/author\/geneveith\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Why the family & the church are prior to the state","description":"In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther's concept of the \"Orders of Creation\" (in each","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Why the family & the church are prior to the state","og_description":"In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther's concept of the \"Orders of Creation\" (in each","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/","og_site_name":"Cranach","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cranachblog\/","article_published_time":"2014-02-18T11:00:57+00:00","article_modified_time":"2014-02-18T00:12:59+00:00","author":"Gene Veith","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Gene Veith","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/","name":"Why the family & the church are prior to the state","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#website"},"datePublished":"2014-02-18T11:00:57+00:00","dateModified":"2014-02-18T00:12:59+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/f9ca8670bcc51908a78994c0484dbfa1"},"description":"In the context of a discussion of the movie The Wolf of Wall Street,\u00a0 Dr. Jack Kilcrease discusses Luther's concept of the \"Orders of Creation\" (in each","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2014\/02\/why-the-family-the-church-are-prior-to-the-state\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Why the family &#038; the church are prior to the state"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/","name":"Cranach","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/f9ca8670bcc51908a78994c0484dbfa1","name":"Gene Veith","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/054d79faea5d476edd8f99e5f14fb17f?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/054d79faea5d476edd8f99e5f14fb17f?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Gene Veith"},"description":"Gene Edward Veith, Jr. is a writer and retired literature professor, serving as Provost Emeritus at Patrick Henry College. He has authored over 25 books on Christianity and culture, literature, classical education, and theology. Dr. Veith previously held academic and editorial roles at Concordia University Wisconsin and WORLD Magazine. A respected voice in Lutheran and classical education circles, he holds a Ph.D. in English and several honorary doctorates. He and his wife, Jackquelyn, live in St. Louis and have three children and twelve grandchildren.","sameAs":["https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cranachblog\/","https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Gene_Edward_Veith"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/author\/geneveith\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18010","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1281"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=18010"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18010\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=18010"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=18010"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=18010"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}