{"id":29542,"date":"2017-09-27T06:00:57","date_gmt":"2017-09-27T10:00:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/?p=29542"},"modified":"2017-09-26T21:36:14","modified_gmt":"2017-09-27T01:36:14","slug":"going-to-hell","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/","title":{"rendered":"Going to Hell"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/305\/2017\/09\/An_angel_leading_a_soul_into_hell._Oil_painting_by_a_followe_Wellcome_L0030887-e1506475877221.jpg\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-29544\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-29544\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/305\/2017\/09\/An_angel_leading_a_soul_into_hell._Oil_painting_by_a_followe_Wellcome_L0030887-e1506475877221.jpg\" alt=\"An_angel_leading_a_soul_into_hell._Oil_painting_by_a_followe_Wellcome_L0030887\" width=\"782\" height=\"559\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p>The threat of eternal punishment\u2013going to Hell\u2013used to be a staple of Christian teaching. \u00a0But we don\u2019t hear much about Hell anymore, even in\u00a0conservative churches. \u00a0A new book says that without Hell, the Bible\u2019s teachings about both sin and\u00a0redemption lose their meaning.<\/p>\n<p>The assumption today seems to be that contemporary people cannot conceive of any kind of eternal punishment, to the point that they will never take it seriously, unless, perhaps they become Christians first and then can be taught the more unpleasant parts later.<\/p>\n<div id=\"premium-content\">\n<p>But this squeamishness was unknown in the past. \u00a0Even Deists, who believed in religion according to reason alone, believed in a realm of eternal punishment. \u00a0Otherwise, they reasoned, injustices on earth would go unpunished, and this would not be the best of all possible worlds. \u00a0Deists rejected Christianity\u2013with its unreasonable doctrines of God\u2019s grace, incarnation, and redemption\u2013but they believed in Hell.<\/p>\n<p>So maybe our discomfort with Hell is our blindspot today. \u00a0And if Hell exists, it doesn\u2019t matter whether we are uncomfortable with the idea or not.<\/p>\n<p>Kip Phelps is the author of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/God-Loves-You-Now-Hell\/dp\/1532763077\/ref=as_sl_pc_as_ss_li_til?tag=cranach00-20&amp;linkCode=w00&amp;linkId=0337e639c6c5d1aa73ec73d8d868114e&amp;creativeASIN=1532763077\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">God Loves You, Now Go to Hell: \u00a0Why Good People End Up in a Very Bad Place<\/a>. \u00a0He says\u00a0that we need to recover the doctrine of eternal punishment and, though the book seems to have some big problems, he makes some\u00a0interesting arguments about Hell that I hadn\u2019t thought of before.<\/p>\n<p>My fellow Patheos blogger Frank Viola interviews him at <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/frankviola\/kipphelps\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">The \u00a0Deeper Journey<\/a>. \u00a0<\/em>A sample:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Instead of asking, \u201cwhat is your book about,\u201d I\u2019m going to ask the question that\u2019s\u00a0<em>behind<\/em>\u00a0that question. And that unspoken question is, \u201chow are readers going to benefit from reading your book?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Hell isn\u2019t on our radar, but it should be. In previous centuries, the idea of a place of eternal torment aroused fear, but it doesn\u2019t anymore. The concept of hell is unreasonable to the modern mind, and words like\u00a0<em>sin, condemnation, repentance<\/em>, and\u00a0<em>redemption<\/em>\u00a0are losing their impact. Evidence tells us, however, that hell is very real, its torments are ferocious, and its population is huge.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s enormously ironic that many people think hell isn\u2019t real when, as the book explains, it\u2019s actually reality on steroids.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/frankviola\/kipphelps\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">[Keep reading. . .]<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The author says that God talked to him audibly\u2013twice\u2013so I am skeptical. \u00a0I suspect this comes from a <a href='https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/library\/pentecostal' target='_blank'>Pentecostal<\/a> perspective, with at least some reliance on reports of \u201cnear death experiences\u201d of going to Hell and coming back to tell about it. \u00a0So I am not endorsing this book at all.<\/p>\n<p>It seems, though, to have a couple of interesting arguments that I hadn\u2019t really thought of before.<\/p>\n<p>People cite the \u201cproblem of suffering\u201d to disprove the existence of God, but Phelps turns that argument on its head: \u00a0Clearly there <em>is<\/em> suffering. \u00a0God <em>does<\/em> exist. \u00a0So suffering must not be completely evil. \u00a0The \u201cproblem of suffering\u201d at best shoots down a particular view of \u00a0God\u2013the one that sees Him as so beneficent that He doesn\u2019t want anyone to suffer\u2013but it doesn\u2019t shoot down the more traditional views of God as a terrifying judge.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m also intrigued by Phelp\u2019s statement\u2013which is a chapter in his book\u2013that Hell is \u201creality on steroids.\u201d \u00a0 Nonbelievers today often say that life is meaningless, full of darkness, full of suffering, a realm of cruelty, where the strong prey on the weak, etc., etc. \u00a0 If there is a life beyond death for nonbelievers, why should it be any different? \u00a0Or, rather, if there is a life beyond death that is purged of goodness (since all good things\u00a0come from God), why shouldn\u2019t it be similar to what nonbelievers\u00a0think life on earth to be\u2013only much more so?<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m not sure that Phelps develops these points as I just have. \u00a0But the interview and what I gleaned from Amazon\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1532763077\/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=reimagchurch-20&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;creativeASIN=1532763077&amp;linkId=cdc582a10a17b208618fd736f85d346e\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">look inside<\/a>\u201d feature sent me towards\u00a0these thoughts.\u00a0 For more of my thoughts on the subject, see <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/06\/belief-in-hell-draft\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">this<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>So what do you think? \u00a0Does contemporary Christianity need to recover the doctrine of eternal punishment? \u00a0Should pastors be preaching about this?<\/p>\n<p>Or is the teaching so unbelievable to people today that hearing about it would just drive them away?<\/p>\n<p>Are there better ways to teach it?<\/p>\n<p><em>Illustration:\u00a0 Oil painting by a follower of Hieronymous Bosch\u00a0[CC BY 4.0 (http:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/4.0)], via Wikimedia Commons<\/em><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em><span style=\"color: #404040;\"><br>\n<\/span><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"width: 120px; height: 240px;\" src=\"\/\/ws-na.amazon-adsystem.com\/widgets\/q?ServiceVersion=20070822&amp;OneJS=1&amp;Operation=GetAdHtml&amp;MarketPlace=US&amp;source=ss&amp;ref=as_ss_li_til&amp;ad_type=product_link&amp;tracking_id=cranach00-20&amp;marketplace=amazon&amp;region=US&amp;placement=1532763077&amp;asins=1532763077&amp;linkId=0337e639c6c5d1aa73ec73d8d868114e&amp;show_border=true&amp;link_opens_in_new_window=true\" width=\"300\" height=\"150\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The threat of eternal punishment\u2013going to Hell\u2013used to be a staple of Christian teaching. \u00a0But we don\u2019t hear much about Hell anymore, even in\u00a0conservative churches. \u00a0A new book says that without Hell, the Bible\u2019s teachings about both sin and\u00a0redemption lose their meaning. The assumption today seems to be that contemporary people cannot conceive of any [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1281,"featured_media":29544,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[47],"tags":[5519,2413],"class_list":["post-29542","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-theology","tag-eternal-punishment","tag-hell"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Going to Hell<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A new book argues that we need to bring back the concept of eternal punishment in Hell.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Going to Hell\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"A new book argues that we need to bring back the concept of eternal punishment in Hell.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Cranach\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cranachblog\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-09-27T10:00:57+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-09-27T01:36:14+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/305\/2017\/09\/An_angel_leading_a_soul_into_hell._Oil_painting_by_a_followe_Wellcome_L0030887-e1506475877221.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"768\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"549\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Gene Veith\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Gene Veith\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/\",\"name\":\"Going to Hell\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2017-09-27T10:00:57+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-09-27T01:36:14+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/f9ca8670bcc51908a78994c0484dbfa1\"},\"description\":\"A new book argues that we need to bring back the concept of eternal punishment in Hell.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2017\/09\/going-to-hell\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Going to Hell\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/\",\"name\":\"Cranach\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/f9ca8670bcc51908a78994c0484dbfa1\",\"name\":\"Gene Veith\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/054d79faea5d476edd8f99e5f14fb17f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/054d79faea5d476edd8f99e5f14fb17f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Gene Veith\"},\"description\":\"Gene Edward Veith, Jr. is a writer and retired literature professor, serving as Provost Emeritus at Patrick Henry College. 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