{"id":73940,"date":"2024-05-22T06:00:11","date_gmt":"2024-05-22T10:00:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/?p=73940"},"modified":"2024-05-15T22:27:26","modified_gmt":"2024-05-16T02:27:26","slug":"christian-atheism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2024\/05\/christian-atheism\/","title":{"rendered":"Christian Atheism"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/305\/2024\/05\/540px-Slavoj_Z%CC%8Ciz%CC%8Cek_2015_closeup.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-74135\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/305\/2024\/05\/540px-Slavoj_Z%CC%8Ciz%CC%8Cek_2015_closeup.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"540\" height=\"721\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Yesterday we posted about people who do not believe in God but are not atheists.\u00a0 Today we are posting about atheists who (sort of) believe in Christianity.<\/p>\n<p>Many intellectuals are taking to heart the scholarship of Tom Holland, whose book <a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/44LmXNf\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Dominion:\u00a0 How the Christian Revolution Remade the World<\/a> shows how the humane and democratic values that we take for granted today and that virtually all sides agree on\u2013such as human equality, the value of peace over war, compassion for the weak, etc.\u2013derive from Christianity alone and cannot be found in classical paganism or anywhere else.\u00a0 Those intellectuals typically do not believe in God, but they recognize the importance of that Christian legacy, especially as it is currently being threatened by radical Islam and the new illiberal authoritarianism.<\/p>\n<div id=\"premium-content\">\n<p>So they are claiming that, while they are atheists, they are \u201ccultural Christians.\u201d\u00a0 Even Richard Dawkins, one of the most prominent of the \u201cNew Atheists\u201d of a few years ago, recently <a href=\"https:\/\/breakpoint.org\/richard-dawkins-a-cultural-christian\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">said<\/a>, \u201cI call myself a cultural Christian. I\u2019m not a believer, but there\u2019s a distinction between being a believing Christian and being a cultural Christian.\u201d\u00a0 He went on to say that \u201cIf I had to choose between Christianity and Islam, I\u2019d choose Christianity every single time. It seems to me to be a fundamentally decent religion in a way that I think Islam is not.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I like the rejoinders quoted at <a href=\"https:\/\/breakpoint.org\/richard-dawkins-a-cultural-christian\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Breakpoint<\/a>: \u201c<span data-contrast=\"none\">Rod Dreher\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/roddreher\/status\/1774734609072161141\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">pointed out<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\"> that for Dawkins to claim he likes cathedrals and Christmas carols but is glad church attendance is declining is like saying he enjoys eating but is glad his country\u2019s farms are closing.\u201d\u00a0 And <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/holland_tom\/status\/1774680923113398287\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Tom Holland<\/a> said, \u201cS<\/span>ecularism &amp; Dawkins\u2019 own brand of evangelical atheism are both expressions of a specifically Christian culture\u2014as Dawkins himself, sitting on the branch he\u2019s been sawing through and gazing nervously at the ground far below, seems to have begun to realise.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>My fellow Patheos blogger <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/anxiousbench\/2024\/05\/choosing-mother-camuss-advice-for-today\/#\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Michael Jimenez<\/a>, in the post I referenced in our Friday discussion \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2024\/05\/discussion-then-i-prefer-my-mother\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Then I Prefer My Mother<\/a>\u201d put me onto another \u201cChristian atheist\u201d whose concerns are actually philosophical, even (sort of) theological, the Slovenian philosopher <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Slavoj_%C5%BDi%C5%BEek\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Slavoj \u017di\u017eek<\/a>.\u00a0 He is a true atheist, a dialectical materialist and a Communist, no less.\u00a0 But he also draws on what he sees as the philosophy of the Apostle Paul and emphasizes the doctrine of God\u2019s incarnation in Jesus Christ.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s let <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Slavoj_%C5%BDi%C5%BEek\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikipedia<\/a> explain his tortured thinking:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u017di\u017eek has asserted that \u201c<a title=\"Atheism\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Atheism\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Atheism<\/a>\u00a0is a legacy worth fighting for\u201d in\u00a0<i><a title=\"The New York Times\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/The_New_York_Times\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The New York Times<\/a><\/i>.\u00a0 However, he nonetheless finds extensive conceptual value in\u00a0<a title=\"Christianity\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Christianity\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Christianity<\/a>, particularly\u00a0<a title=\"Protestantism\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Protestantism\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Protestantism<\/a>: the subtitle of his 2000 book\u00a0<i>The Fragile Absolute<\/i>\u00a0is \u201cOr, Why Is the Christian Legacy Worth Fighting For?\u201d. Hence, he labels his position \u2018<a class=\"mw-redirect decorated-link\" title=\"Christian Atheism\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Christian_Atheism\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Christian Atheism<\/a>\u2018,\u00a0and has written about theology at length.<\/p>\n<p>In\u00a0<i><a title=\"The Pervert's Guide to Ideology\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/The_Pervert%27s_Guide_to_Ideology\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Pervert\u2019s Guide to Ideology<\/a><\/i>, \u017di\u017eek suggests that \u201cthe only way to be an Atheist is through Christianity\u201d, since, he claims, atheism often fails to escape the religious paradigm by remaining faithful to an external guarantor of meaning, simply switching God for natural necessity or evolution. Christianity, on the other hand, in the doctrine of\u00a0<a title=\"Incarnation (Christianity)\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Incarnation_(Christianity)\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">the incarnation<\/a>, brings God down from the \u2018beyond\u2019 and onto earth, into human affairs; for \u017di\u017eek, this paradigm is more authentically godless, since the external guarantee is abolished.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So only through Christ can anyone be \u201cauthentically godless\u201d!<\/p>\n<p>\u017di\u017eek has just published a book to this effect: \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3yifA3I\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span id=\"productTitle\" class=\"a-size-extra-large celwidget\" data-csa-c-id=\"xunoqo-2u8rg6-xtybjh-sg4es4\" data-cel-widget=\"productTitle\">Christian Atheism: How to Be a Real Materialist<\/span><\/a>.\u00a0 Here is\u00a0the editorial description from Amazon:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Slavoj \u017di\u017eek has long been a commentator on, and critic of, Christian theology. His preoccupation with Badiou\u2019s concept of \u2018the event\u2019 alongside the Pauline thought of the New Testament has led to a decidedly theological turn in his thinking. Drawing on traditions and subjects as broad as <a href='https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/library\/buddhism' target='_blank'>Buddhist<\/a> thought, dialectical materialism, political subjectivity, quantum physics, AI and chatbots, this book articulates \u017di\u017eek\u2019s idea of a religious life for the first time.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"a-text-italic\">Christian Atheism<\/span>\u00a0is a unique insight into \u017di\u017eek\u2019s theological project and the first book-length exploration of his religious thinking. In his own words, \u201cto become a true dialectical materialist, one should go through the Christian experience.\u201d Crucial to his whole conception of \u2018experience\u2019 is not some kind of spiritual revelation but rather the logic of materialistic thought. This affirmation of Christian theology whilst simultaneously deconstructing it is a familiar \u017di\u017eekian move, but one that holds deep-seated political, philosophical and, in the end, personal import for him. Here is \u017di\u017eek\u2019s most extensive treatment of theology and religion to date.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>And here is the table of contents from the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bloomsbury.com\/us\/christian-atheism-9781350409316\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">publisher<\/a>:<\/p>\n<div class=\"product-detail-description__body readmore-toc\">\n<blockquote><p>Introduction: Why True Atheism HAS to be Indirect<\/p>\n<p>1. Let a Religion Deplete Itself<br>\n2. Why Lacan is not a Buddhist<br>\n3. From Superpositions to Athings<br>\n4. The Sacred, The Obscene, and the Undead<br>\n5. Neque Homo Neque Deus Neque Natura<br>\n6. Why Politics is Immanently Theological<\/p>\n<p>Conclusion: The Need for Psychoanalysis<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>What strikes me from this odd melange is his Chapter 5, with the Latin saying \u201cNeither man, nor God, nor nature.\u201d\u00a0 As I understand him, \u017di\u017eek seeks an atheism and a materialism completely ungrounded by anything, with no \u201cexternal guarantor of meaning.\u201d\u00a0 We ought to ground ourselves neither on man (as the humanists do), on God (as religious people do), nor on nature (as the scientific rationalists do).\u00a0 Presumably, this is the atheist version of walking by faith.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div>The problem, though, is that \u017di\u017eek here cuts off the quotation.\u00a0\u00a0\u201cNeither man, nor God, nor nature\u201d is a partial quote from <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Tertullian\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Tertullian<\/a>\u00a0(<abbr title=\"circa\">c.<\/abbr>\u00a0155 \u2013\u00a0<abbr title=\"circa\">c.<\/abbr> 220 AD), who for all his faults was the first major Christian apologist.\u00a0 The full quotation is \u201cNeither man, nor God, nor nature <em>lie<\/em>\u201d (<i>neque deus neque natura mentitur).<\/i><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>Tertullian was arguing that if you honestly consider \u201cman,\u201d specifically, your own human soul, you will come to the truth of Christianity.\u00a0 If you honestly consider \u201cGod,\u201d you will come to the truth of Christianity.\u00a0 If you honestly consider nature, you will come to the truth of Christianity.<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>Listen to him, from <a href=\"https:\/\/lexchristianorum.blogspot.com\/2010\/02\/tertullian-on-natural-law-soul-as-my.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">On the Testimony of the Soul\u00a0<\/a> (<i>De testimonio animae<\/i>).\u00a0 He argues that <em>whatever<\/em> you believe about the soul\u2013whether you think it\u2019s divine and eternal, or just a product of material atoms (sound familiar?)\u2013it will not lie, but rather will lead you to the truth:<\/div>\n<div>\n<blockquote><p>Now I invoke a new witness better known than any literature, more compelling than any theory, more widely circulated than any publication, greater than the fullness of man \u2013 which is to say the very sum of man. O soul, step forth into our midst\u00a0whether you are divine and eternal as many philosophers attest. All the more would you not lie! Or whether you are not divine, since you are material as only Epicurus suggests. All the more you ought not to lie. Whether you are received from heaven or conceived from the earth; whether you are assembled from numbers or atoms; whether you originate with the body; whether you are introduced into the body after birth. However you originate, you make of mankind a rational animal, supremely receptive to awareness and knowledge.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Tertullian goes on, exploring the relationship between the soul, nature, and God:<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote><p>Go ahead and believe in your literary sources; even more believe in our divine sources. But as for the insight of the soul, believe in Nature. Select whichever of these you believe to be the faithful sister of the truth. If you have doubts as to your own sources, be assured that neither God nor Nature lie [<i>neque deus neque natura mentitur<\/i>]. In order that you may believe in both Nature and in God, believe in the soul. So it shall come to pass that you will believe in yourself. It is the soul you value as having made you as great as you are. . . .<\/p>\n<p>God is everywhere and the goodness of God is everywhere. . . ..The awareness of death is everywhere. . . and the testimony of the soul is everywhere . . . .Rightly then, every soul is both defendant and witness \u2013 as much a defendant against the charge of error as a witness to the truth. And she will stand before the court of God on the day of judgment with nothing to say.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Bracing, is it not?\u00a0 And far less tortured than the Christian atheist. \u017di\u017eek is saying that man, God, and the self <em>do<\/em> lie, so that we should never ground our lives on them.\u00a0 Tertullian is saying they do <em>not<\/em> lie.\u00a0 Tertullian is affirming all of existence because it points to God.\u00a0 \u00a0\u017di\u017eek is repudiating all of existence because it points to God.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><em>Photo:\u00a0 Slavoj \u017di\u017eek by Amrei-Marie \u2013 Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/w\/index.php?curid=119893485<\/em><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday we posted about people who do not believe in God but are not atheists.\u00a0 Today we are posting about atheists who (sort of) believe in Christianity.  A look at Richard Dawkin&#8217;s &#8220;cultural Christianity&#8221; and Slavoj \u017di\u017eek&#8217;s &#8220;Christian atheism.&#8221;  And how the ancient apologist Tertullian answers them.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1281,"featured_media":74135,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5,33,35,47],"tags":[14681,4243,2990,3307,7243,3556],"class_list":["post-73940","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-nature","category-philosophy-2","category-theology","tag-christian-apologetics","tag-christian-atheism","tag-cultural-christianity","tag-richard-dawkins","tag-slavoj-zizek","tag-tertullian"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Christian Atheism<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Yesterday we posted about people who do not believe in God but are not atheists.\u00a0 Today we are posting about atheists who (sort of) believe in Christianity. 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He has authored over 25 books on Christianity and culture, literature, classical education, and theology. Dr. Veith previously held academic and editorial roles at Concordia University Wisconsin and WORLD Magazine. A respected voice in Lutheran and classical education circles, he holds a Ph.D. in English and several honorary doctorates. He and his wife, Jackquelyn, live in St. Louis and have three children and twelve grandchildren.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cranachblog\/\",\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Gene_Edward_Veith\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/author\/geneveith\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Christian Atheism","description":"Yesterday we posted about people who do not believe in God but are not atheists.\u00a0 Today we are posting about atheists who (sort of) believe in Christianity. A look at Richard Dawkin's \"cultural Christianity\" and Slavoj \u017di\u017eek's \"Christian atheism.\" And how the ancient apologist Tertullian answers them.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/geneveith\/2024\/05\/christian-atheism\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Christian Atheism","og_description":"Yesterday we posted about people who do not believe in God but are not atheists.\u00a0 Today we are posting about atheists who (sort of) believe in Christianity. 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